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  • Dude, Im sorry but I cant hold your hand and walk you through this - you really need to be posting this all in the rookie section

    If people walked away from you at a party, yes your doing something majorly wrong

    Id recommend going to online chat forums and just chatting to people there

    Also maybe try public speaking and toastmasters - it can be difficult at first but youl get the hang of how "eloquence" works

    (btw, I was a public speaking champion at my school, but thats another story)

    Groups who have public speaking classes know its hard...so youl be in a good environment to learn convo skills properly

    And plus, by listening to the speeches youl understand conversation structure better

    ------

    Even simple shit like the TV, soaps, movies will help you improve convo skills

    Lastly, believe in yourself more man, it seems you dont believe in yourself at all...your capable of this just like anybody else. Reading your posts is just seems like your super submissive and lack any self-belief whatsoever...thats whats holding you back

    Seems you dont believe in yourself but you are capable. Asking too much advice is a symptom of not believing (Ive done that here too taking cosy's advice..it didnt work for me)

    You can be yourself without having to change massive things in your life and still get laid. But self-belief and knowing your capable is important

    -----

    Also, fuck that shit of not going to clubs....go to a club and get your cock sucked by some horny chicks...theyre all up for it man!! That will get you over the virgin hurdle and then you can get at the good stuff

    Good luck
    --------------------------
    Key lessons:
    - The brain is a bullshit feeder
    - People don't exist in the way you think they do
    - Early rising makes a world of difference

    My journals:

    Sexual game journal
    Fundamentals journal
    Club game approaching journal
    Brain programming journal

    Comment


    • Originally posted by SargeMaximus View Post
      I ended up going to her house actually. She texted me inquiring about my call. I called her back, we confirmed the meet, and I went over.

      No sex.

      I will post the facts. Experienced guys please weigh in.

      So, when I got there, she had just come back from yoga.
      Wasn't changed, hadn't showered.
      She came down from her apartment to let me in the building.
      Didn't hug or kiss me hello.
      We went in an elevator and I prolly should have gone for the kiss... but didn't.

      When we got into her place she was eating, so I let her eat.
      When she was done, we cuddled up but I was awkward as f*ck with my hands. I didn't want to lay them on her breasts, legs, pussy, stomach, so she grabbed a pillow and I rested them on that.

      Just before she grabbed the pillow I joked that I had her in a choke hold and held my arm around her neck. She laughed.

      As we watched I began playing with her hair. She was mentioning it, like it was weird or something but I was only following GLL's escalation guide.

      Anyhow, played with her hair a bit (which ended up as me petting her basically lol) then I went to the neck, massaged it, then after that went for the kiss.

      This was to be the trend for the entire 2.5 hours. I would kiss her, then she'd laugh or say "ok, watch the show" or something.

      At about the 1 hour mark I was getting pretty far. I had kissed her passionately a few times (though, when I matched her intensity, she'd always seem to back off.) and was feeling her legs and even grabbed a breast a couple times, but then I think I went too fast or something cause she was like "uhuh, not tonight" or something.

      Then her BL got a bit closed off. She switched from resting on me, to sitting beside me. I continued to play with the hair, massage her neck, and go for the kiss, endless times. We had some good makeouts but mostly it was just 1-2 kisses then "back to the show".

      She told me "stop" a few times, and I did. She said "no" a few times, and I backed off. So it was odd. Either she wasn't into me or the fact that she has work tomorrow was the reason she kept stopping things.

      A few times I seemed to get far but she'd shut down. Too far too fast maybe, but if I didn't escelate, things seemed to peter out, so it was strange.

      Some of the makeouts (particularly during the legs/boobs phase) were intense and fun but she'd always end it with a laugh. I don't get that.

      She got up a few times to get away from me.

      Told me to not be so "gropey" (even though, when she said this, I was only going for kisses at that point, and had downgraded from the boob/leg stuff)

      The show we were watching had rape elements in it and I felt like escalating during that would be a bad thing to do lol. Kind of a turn off tbh. Even though it turned out that the girl wasn't raped, but I digress.

      She told me I needed to "relax" and "chill" I kinda scoffed at it, but I did anyhow.

      At some points, when I DID escelate even after her saying that, she was cold and got stiff (i.e. wouldn't turn to kiss me when I prompted her)

      Eventually, it was time for bed (she said) and we talked a bit before having a rather fiery make-out while standing up (we held each other and I pushed my leg into her crotch, she stopped within a second of that lol).

      We kissed a bit more, she was smiling, and she was the one prompting it. (she'd say "one more" *kiss* "ok, one more" *kiss*)

      And then I was out. She closed the door before I could finish my goodbye.

      So... I'm a bit confused, but overall it doesn't seem too good.

      I mean, I stayed respectful (even though I made my disappointment audible, it wasn't frustration just "oh man... ok" kind of thing) so I dunno.

      No text from her though... I dunno. I'm in over my head lol.

      However, at this point, it doesn't look good I don't think.

      EDIT: Oh yeah, and I should mention I had a boner after about 1.75 hours. She went to the bathroom and I thought it was because she expected sex but, when she came back, she didn't seem responsive to my kisses so I eased the f*ck off to avoid cumming in my pants and/or going too far.
      A LOT OF MISTAKES THAT SHOW YOUR INEXPERIENCE, and is fine you are learning, BUT THIS IS FOR THE FUTURE.... Please whoever read my shit! doe not strawman or take what i said and switch it around:

      1.- The first thing i notice and how i would have known as a dude with experience right of the back THAT THE LAY WAS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, again right of the meeting he, i would have known this, but skills how?

      a.- She came from JOGA, Sweaty AND STINKY AND DID NOT SHOWER.... Every girl that is going to get laid that is the first thing they do they shower, shave, put perfume, put the best outfit etc.....

      ^ so even if she is into you and HORNY AS FUCK, she would feel uncomfortable and stop you CAUSE SHE DOES NOT FEEL FRESH!....

      This is no good, cause it gives her more time to screen you and analyze you since SHE KNOWS SEX WILL NOT HAPPEN, "do i see this dude as a friend" "do i really want to fuck him" "he is not what i projected into him now that i see him in person and how he is acting"...

      2.- Your confusion, your awkwardness, your insecurities, your inexperience etcc... She could feel it and see through it...


      Man i was there too, this is not something to beat yourself over, you will get a lot more opportunities... You got make out and a girl that was invested in you at some point, you will learn from this and get better and better with time...

      I told you i licked a girl face that i lost, you did 10000 times better than me...

      So my SPECULATION, she was into you up till the meet and she went from green/invested/dtf to maybe i like this dude as a friend/red...

      Dude i am just speculating AND I MAY BE 100% wrong but i do doubt it...

      Telling her that you are a virgin is also not a good move, cause she may not wanna be responsible at that age to take your virginity, and deal with the consequences...
      Sexting, my unique natural game, aggressive dance floor seductions, 15-20 minutes hook ups in clubs. Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a club type environment, check out my blog and youtube clubbing channel:

      www.dancefloorseduction.com









      Comment


      • Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
        A LOT OF MISTAKES THAT SHOW YOUR INEXPERIENCE
        Like what? How do I fix it?

        Originally posted by Skills360 View Post

        2.- Your confusion, your awkwardness, your insecurities, your inexperience etcc... She could feel it and see through it...
        So... what's the solution to that?

        I mean, ok, she sees though me and all that, great but, there's nothing I can do about it, unless you're suggesting I make an effort to hide my insecurities, confusion, awkwardness. But then my question is: won't that create a distrustful vibe?

        Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
        Man i was there too, this is not something to beat yourself over, you will get a lot more opportunities... You got make out and a girl that was invested in you at some point, you will learn from this and get better and better with time...
        I can't learn if I don't know what went wrong or at least what I should do to fix it...

        Originally posted by Skills360 View Post

        I told you i licked a girl face that i lost, you did 10000 times better than me...
        Yeah I was purposefully not licking her neck/ears because of that story lol, so thanks for sharing.

        Originally posted by Skills360 View Post

        So my SPECULATION, she was into you up till the meet and she went from green/invested/dtf to maybe i like this dude as a friend/red...

        Dude i am just speculating AND I MAY BE 100% wrong but i do doubt it...

        Telling her that you are a virgin is also not a good move, cause she may not wanna be responsible at that age to take your virginity, and deal with the consequences...
        I didn't tell her I was a virgin...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by SargeMaximus View Post
          Thanks for stopping by Tagz! As for your points:

          3.
          As for conversation... not much. She was mostly watching the show and talking about that I was trying to follow it but was also trying to escalate. There were times where she'd get very talkative though and I tried to give her that space because I knew something was up but couldn't figure out what (I thought I was doing mostly everything right lol).

          I did make an innuendo actually. At one point she was saying how my massages were bad. Like her grandkid could massage harder. So I started massaging harder and did that for a while. She let me. I asked if it felt good, she said "it doesn't feel bad" and I'm like "well it's gotta feel good, that's the whole point".

          Anyhow, eventually I found a knot on her back and she noticed it too saying "wow, that's a knot" I'm like "yeah, gotta rub it out" she laughed. I dunno if it was a good one or not. I actually didn't mean it that way but afterwards I realized it was an innuendo.

          She brought up some exes, including a black man she was dating and I was like "is it true what they say? once you go black, you never go back?" she's like "no. He was a big guy, but no... just massive actually" I didn't say anything to that tho :/.
          Im not on my laptop so can give brief response.

          I particularly don't have much to help you with verbal "game" cuz I just feel things out conversation wise and choose something to talk about. Besides my personality is usually not giving a fuck what I talk about, some humor, and I have a dirty mind so I tend to blurt out innuendos a lot. Everyone different just have to find what works for you.

          Her talking about ex is not good topic to be on if you're trying to lay her unless you know how to play it certain way.. I don't. I mean if it were me I may have tried using that "he was a big guy" and say like "well obviously not big enough for you" and then go into a tangent on "ya know many women say size matters..what you think?" This leads convo to sexual topic but at same time you could be talking about body size haha

          hope i helped

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tagz View Post
            Im not on my laptop so can give brief response.

            I particularly don't have much to help you with verbal "game" cuz I just feel things out conversation wise and choose something to talk about. Besides my personality is usually not giving a fuck what I talk about, some humor, and I have a dirty mind so I tend to blurt out innuendos a lot. Everyone different just have to find what works for you.

            Her talking about ex is not good topic to be on if you're trying to lay her unless you know how to play it certain way.. I don't. I mean if it were me I may have tried using that "he was a big guy" and say like "well obviously not big enough for you" and then go into a tangent on "ya know many women say size matters..what you think?" This leads convo to sexual topic but at same time you could be talking about body size haha

            hope i helped
            Yeah, that helped. Thanks.

            I didn't say anything about it because I didn't want to get into a penis size conversation lol.

            I also didn't change the subject because I thought it was good to not care if we talked about her exes (outcome independence, IDGAF, not threatened, etc) so thanks for mentioning that. Won't be allowing that again.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by SargeMaximus View Post
              Yeah, that helped. Thanks.

              I didn't say anything about it because I didn't want to get into a penis size conversation lol.

              I also didn't change the subject because I thought it was good to not care if we talked about her exes (outcome independence, IDGAF, not threatened, etc) so thanks for mentioning that. Won't be allowing that again.
              Not getting into size convo per say but if it helps put her mind on yours then that's fine haha
              Well it's fine not caring but just certain topics should be avoid.. ex,religion,politics and money are main ones for me. Avoid like the plague!

              btw, this is just for future reference because I think Skills is likely right. Win some lose some that's life man. You'll get better.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tagz View Post
                Not getting into size convo per say but if it helps put her mind on yours then that's fine haha
                Well it's fine not caring but just certain topics should be avoid.. ex,religion,politics and money are main ones for me. Avoid like the plague!

                btw, this is just for future reference because I think Skills is likely right. Win some lose some that's life man. You'll get better.
                Kk, thanks Tagz!

                Comment


                • I think OP only needs to learn 1 thing.
                  Escalating = mistake
                  My method: Say "Hello" or "Wow" > shy look > starry-eyed look > spamming cold-read-compliments + feather light touches

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ijjjji View Post
                    I think OP only needs to learn 1 thing.
                    Escalating = mistake
                    Hey ijjjji! Thanks for stopping by! I definitely learned that lol. But... how do you ever get to sex without escalating?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by skills
                      1.- The first thing i notice and how i would have known as a dude with experience right of the back THAT THE LAY WAS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, again right of the meeting he, i would have known this, but skills how?

                      a.- She came from JOGA, Sweaty AND STINKY AND DID NOT SHOWER.... Every girl that is going to get laid that is the first thing they do they shower, shave, put perfume, put the best outfit etc.....

                      ^ so even if she is into you and HORNY AS FUCK, she would feel uncomfortable and stop you CAUSE SHE DOES NOT FEEL FRESH!....
                      ^This

                      As soon as I read your post Sarge I knew it wasnt happening until she took a shower

                      -----

                      Anyway good luck dude...IMHO you should be posting this in the rookie section, these are far too basic questions for this part of the forum and its really making me cringe

                      FYI, multiple people have downvoted your posts, not just me. Skills give you good advice and then you asked something stupid ie "so how do I fix that?" - use your brain man!!! Ask better questions and you wont have issues..but asking skills how to fix that is you just nitpicking and being too logical about it
                      --------------------------
                      Key lessons:
                      - The brain is a bullshit feeder
                      - People don't exist in the way you think they do
                      - Early rising makes a world of difference

                      My journals:

                      Sexual game journal
                      Fundamentals journal
                      Club game approaching journal
                      Brain programming journal

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Impulse View Post
                        Ask better questions and you wont have issues..but asking skills how to fix that is you just nitpicking and being too logical about it
                        EDIT: Nvm, I went back and edited that post. I think I see the misunderstanding.

                        I wasn't asking skills what the solution to her needing a shower was LOL!

                        I was asking what the solution to her seeing through me and my insecurities was, or even if there should be a solution. So it's been edited.

                        As for the rookie forum, yeah you can move this there if you know how (mods anyone).

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sase View Post
                          Victor and Clara scene in Pedro Almodovar's, Live Flesh, movie. Watch it. Then let's talk options. Coming out is high risk but she already knows something is off...
                          Originally posted by SargeMaximus View Post
                          ...
                          I don't have the movie but what options are you talking about? And what "coming out" are you talking about? And what do you mean "she knows something is off"?
                          You can rent the movie at Amazon.
                          The option somebody mentioned of you telling her that you are a virgin. If you want to do it you must do it in a way that minimizes the chances of spooking her. Discretion and non-clinginess are very important. You mention in the OP of wanting her as a FB and possibly upgrade to GF. Not going to happen. Forgetaboutit! The fact you even contemplate that will make her spook. In the movie there is a scene where Victor asks Clara to help him become the best lover in the world. It's a sweet scene if I remember well (I saw the movie long ago so it's blurry.) There is more to discuss but first you must decide if that's the course you want to follow.
                          Coming out= about being a virgin.
                          I can't explain what I mean by "she knows something's off" Too many tell tale signs. I see Skills is trying to help you, unfortunately it's not something you can learn on an internet forum. There is no substitute for experience. Trust me, she knows. But she doesn't know what is off. She might think you don't like her enough, or too much, or have some hidden agenda, or just that you are a bad lover... etc. The fact that you are inexperienced might be a relief for her or it might send her running for the hills.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sase View Post
                            You can rent the movie at Amazon.
                            The option somebody mentioned of you telling her that you are a virgin. If you want to do it you must do it in a way that minimizes the chances of spooking her. Discretion and non-clinginess are very important. You mention in the OP of wanting her as a FB and possibly upgrade to GF. Not going to happen. Forgetaboutit! The fact you even contemplate that will make her spook. In the movie there is a scene where Victor asks Clara to help him become the best lover in the world. It's a sweet scene if I remember well (I saw the movie long ago so it's blurry.) There is more to discuss but first you must decide if that's the course you want to follow.
                            Coming out= about being a virgin.
                            Oh I see lol. (I'm dense AF) Ok well, I don't want to tell her I'm a virgin. If she figures it out, fine, I'll admit it but I don't want to make it a thing I use in my seduction.

                            BUT, having said that, I wouldn't mind learning how to be a good lover from this woman.

                            Originally posted by Sase View Post
                            I can't explain what I mean by "she knows something's off" Too many tell tale signs. I see Skills is trying to help you, unfortunately it's not something you can learn on an internet forum. There is no substitute for experience. Trust me, she knows. But she doesn't know what is off. She might think you don't like her enough, or too much, or have some hidden agenda, or just that you are a bad lover... etc. The fact that you are inexperienced might be a relief for her or it might send her running for the hills.
                            Hmm, this will most likely affect another woman too then, right?

                            It's not so bad if "something is off" though, is it? I mean, if all I'm doing is moving things forward, not being too pushy, giving her space etc, what else is needed? I need to be experienced now? How do people lose their V if experience is something you need to have? lol

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by SargeMaximus View Post
                              Hey ijjjji! Thanks for stopping by! I definitely learned that lol. But... how do you ever get to sex without escalating?
                              By allowing the sexual tension to escalate.
                              My method: Say "Hello" or "Wow" > shy look > starry-eyed look > spamming cold-read-compliments + feather light touches

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ijjjji View Post
                                I think OP only needs to learn 1 thing.
                                Escalating = mistake
                                Good advice to someone well-versed in game, but this is useless to anyone just learning how to be in a bedroom with a girl.
                                2.- I never advised this guy to text her that shit! he misunderstood, i said in the future used "plausible deniability"
                                3.- I have multiple guys, that got directly laid from my text advice

                                @Skills this is your fuck up. It was bad advice because it wasn't communicated as good as it could have been and as a more frequent poster who has helped "mulitiple of guys to get laid by your advice", it should be the case you give the man something he can actually use and apply. The responsibility of one's communication being received effectively is only within the person giving the message.
                                Sorry if you got offended by the downvoting...I was actually laughing reading what you wrote man and thought you were an idiot..thats just being totally honest with you

                                @Impulse The downvoting shit is bullshit on someone who is posting of his honest experience, what he did, and asking for how he could do it better. It's important we have downvoting so that we know when someone is giving bad advice. Clearly Sarge is not giving advice and it makes little sense to downvote anything that he is saying.
                                Told me to not be so "gropey" (even though, when she said this, I was only going for kisses at that point, and had downgraded from the boob/leg stuff)

                                The show we were watching had rape elements in it and I felt like escalating during that would be a bad thing to do lol. Kind of a turn off tbh. Even though it turned out that the girl wasn't raped, but I digress.

                                She told me I needed to "relax" and "chill" I kinda scoffed at it, but I did anyhow.

                                At some points, when I DID escelate even after her saying that, she was cold and got stiff (i.e. wouldn't turn to kiss me when I prompted her)

                                Eventually, it was time for bed (she said) and we talked a bit before having a rather fiery make-out while standing up (we held each other and I pushed my leg into her crotch, she stopped within a second of that lol).

                                We kissed a bit more, she was smiling, and she was the one prompting it. (she'd say "one more" *kiss* "ok, one more" *kiss*)

                                And then I was out. She closed the door before I could finish my goodbye.

                                So... I'm a bit confused, but overall it doesn't seem too good.

                                She says group because you are acting like the guy who is persistent without being able to read her signals. It is okay, you are learning.

                                When she tells you that you are doing a bad back massage, you DO NOT do it harder. You stop giving her a back massage, what you did here is rewarded bad behavior. Your mindset needs to be, even if the quality of the back massage isn't necessarily good, just because YOU are giving it, it is the best back massage she could hope for. It is a privilege if she gets a back massage from you, and the moment she doesn't understand that or does something negating it, you take that privilege away.

                                Now likely it occurred that you were on the bed trying to kiss and escalate. She probably even recognized your inexperience. No big deal. You will keep getting better. When I was a virgin and couldn't escalate, my friend told me two things:

                                1.) Two steps forward, one step backward- kiss her and then move away from her, go to the bathroom after a heavy kiss. She needs to be chasing your affection.

                                2.) You need to tease to please- this includes seductive teases such as light kisses on the neck and you going down to her waist teasing and getting her turned on. Sounds like you have a lot to take in on this, but I can always provide more.

                                Now what I would have done for this whole date:

                                -I arrive and she tells me she is just back from yoga and is sweaty and shit

                                -I say okay cool, shower and freshen up, we are going to get something quick to eat (also grab a netflix, gotta pick up a drink from the store, whatever is quick and will change environment.)

                                You do this so that you get her to follow your lead. Done right and best case scenario, you leave grab a netflix (pick a dumb movie such as disney that you can talk over and she won't care if she misses.), then return to her house and escalate during the movie.

                                This will take calibration man. I can't tell you how many girls I lost when I was a virgin and didn't know what to do in the bedroom. That part was the most heartbreaking, is that I would put all the work in and I couldn't get past LMR. Or something would happen and I just wouldn't get the lay. It fucking sucked. Now I can't remember the last time I haven't gotten past LMR.

                                Now for the next chance you will have with this girl, I don't think there will be one. Likely she is going to remember the time you came over and she didn't have sex with you. This is just going to reaffirm her behavior of not having sex with you. I do not believe she was on her period as some of the other guys say as she would have just said it and she wouldn't have had to deal with you being 'gropey'. But if there is the case that she texts and she is open to hang out, then all means do it.

                                I tell you this because you need to follow the advise her and you need to get your ass out to social events. Whether this is meetup or nightclubs (highly recommend for social skills) or whatever. You will need a lot of practice and you will need it fast. I did nightclubs when I first learned. I didn't like it and i can't stand them even more now (i rarely go to them now), but they will help you learn social skills quick.
                                -Supernova

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