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The Over-33 Technique Thread

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  • #46
    BD, I can totally relate. Tracking down all my online dates, I saw a pattern. Though, the age line in my case is 27-years-old. Above that they both have higher ASD and take more dates to have sex with, except, of course, for the case they are typical cougars or nymphomaniacs. Unlike younger girls that were already attracted and hooked when we hang out, I had to also run game on them in the real world. So I can remember of 11 women of 27-years and older I have dated, from which I had only sex with two:

    1) ONS
    2) She was very uncomfortable on the date and in one hour she excused herself to leave. I called her out on that and some days later, that she was ditching the meet, she blocked me on facebook.
    3) ONS
    4) She flaked out because I didn't pay for her coffee(!!!)
    5) 27 years old. On the second date she refused to come home with me, so I dropped her.
    6) Same as above, she wouldn't come home with me, plus she was uglier than her photos. Funny thing is that she told me all guys she dated online dumped her for exactly that reason (not following them home).
    7) 27 years old. Although we were having fun, she was being very lukewarm on the date. I let her initiate, like I usually do after the first date, and she didn't.
    8) She was very uncomfortable and introverted, especially after I kissed her. She wouldn't come home with me and, after we left, she blocked me on facebook.
    9) She wouldn't give me either her phone number, or her facebook, or any other contact info. At the coffee shop she wouldn't sit down next to me, either. She felt embarrassed at the slightest silence. She needed too much investment, so I dropped her.
    10) She refused to come home with me. I broke my rule of letting her initiate and pitched a second meet. Her response was to safely invite me with her friends. As I found out, my attempt to pull her was the dealbreaker.
    11) Very uncomfortable and quiet, although her kiss was horny. She wouldn't come home with me and never initiated.

    New generations are so much better. Older women freak out just at the idea of meeting someone on the internet. You may be the coolest guy in the world, but they will treat you as an alien, just because you are from a dating site. Maybe it is not worth it, but for the sake of experimentation I will test out variations of not kissing on the first date, not trying to pull and running game on this special category to see what happens.


    • #47
      Found this thread, and have been reading through it, and has me reflecting on my over 33 success lately, almost all of which is from Online: so posting some of my thoughts.

      I am 45, and fit the profile for the thread.

      First, admittedly, I have not had a 'game' for this, nor had been approaching online dating purely looking for sex, before I found BD site recently, in the past few months, but over the past 5 years, I was more 'beta' and 'looking for monogamous relationship' but with that said, have had success from online dating, and first and second date lays with woman over 33. I don't consider myself a PUA, or even that good a 'gamer' with women.

      Second, I realized that I don't have a 'technique' per se, but more of a 'pattern' that I have developed from online dating on and off over the past few years.

      Third, because I have not had a technique, and not really kept track of every interaction and date, my sample size may be smaller than others, I'll post my things from 2015, but they carry back to other success I have had in the past few years as well, but 2015 I have been keeping closer track of. In total over the past 5 years, I have slept with ~25 woman from online dating, all over the age of 33.

      2015 Stats:
      I have been on roughly ~15 dates from online sites, and I use Tinder, Okcupid and Match, all of which I feel fit the 'online' profile for dating. I realize that is a low number, but I have an active life, and a job, and have not been pursuing high numbers of 'dates' so far this year.

      Of those ~15, 4 have led to first date sex, and 2 have been second date sex, so my success rate has been roughly 40% from online this year. Admittedly again, my date numbers are small, and that could skew them as I may be 'getting lucky' with the women that happen to be interested in me.

      Another thing to note, my online response rate to openers and email is incredibly low, somewhere around 2-3%, I attribute that to my profile, which I don't think is that great, but there are occasions when woman actually reach out to say hi to me first in this age range. My photos are of me traveling, or doing something, like skydiving, or on my motorcycle, etc.

      My vibe with them has always been boyfriend/gentleman with an edge, that comes naturally to me, and I didn't analyze it before, but now reflect on it and recognize it.

      With all those caveat's and notes, here has been my pattern and some reflection on it, I have not held 100 percent to all of them, as every situation has been a bit different, and I tend to go more with the flow of how things are feeling.

      1. From first email contact, I try to keep email back and forth to 3-5 emails max, with some notes on similar interests, or something interesting in their profile, but I keep mine short, no more than 1 or 2 paragraphs of a couple of sentences each. And NO beta crap in these, NO going on about how beautiful they are, NO submissive shit, etc. If I give a compliment, it will be on something they have done, like travel, or a photo of something, like them riding a camel, along the line of "That must have been an amazing experience, and I would love to hear more about it!"
        After this, I will ask for a number, and a time we can chat on the phone. And by ask, I mean along the line of: "You sound like an interesting woman, with some great stories, shoot me your number and a time we can chat, as I would love to learn more about you!"
        * I use "Love", "Experience" "amazing" and words such as that, not directed 'at' them, but things about what they have done, etc, as woman connect with them, and makes them feel you are interested in them and who they are, where they have come from.
        * No sex references are brought in here
      2. Phone chat: Once I get a number, and a time to chat, I will call them at that time, and be prompt and on time, and really is a continuation of the email thread. I will try to keep this to max 1/2 hour, and most times far less than this, and use the 80/20 listen/talk rule. It's my opportunity to build some rapport, get them feeling someone is listening to them, and actually hears them, start to bring up things they are interested in, maybe shared interests, and a little about myself.
        Keep a positive frame during the call, with your voice in control, and nervousness should be minimal.
        Things usually go pretty well here, and at the end of the call, I will pitch a coffee date, or maybe a quick drink date, and throw in the 'Nothing to committed, that way if either of us gets scared away, we can split, and if we do connect, we can continue on!"
        * I use some slightly deprecating humor here at times, and I mean slightly, they often ask, "what do you do for a living" and for me, that's easy, I tell them "I am a Director of IT, which really is just a fancy way of saying I fix computers for a living, and really, since I am a director now, I just tell people to fix computers, while I go to meetings."
        * Again, no sex references here, Unless they initiate it. I do at times include some prior relationship talk, often people are not originally from the area, and I'll ask how they wound up here, and then jokingly say, wait, let me guess, it was a guy! It's always a guy.
      3. Coffee/Drink date: This I try to setup the first meet, and shoot for 1 hour max, unless things are going very well, then I can extend it if she is open to it. All of the rules apply to dating here, dress nice/stylish, show up on time, or before. I often show up before, and then txt them, where I am, and some note like "I am at the bar when you get here, let's see if you can find me! "
        Setup, I always shoot for the bar, if for wine/drinks, or a table that has seats that I can sit at beside her at an angle, When she gets there, almost all the time, they look to shake hands, and I wave that off, and give her a hug, while explaining "I am a hugger" and thank her for meeting me out, etc. The bar works well, it almost forces us close after, and more often than not touching legs together while we talk, pay attention to her state, if she is uncomfortable with it, you'll pick up on it, and can move back a bit.
        80/20 talking rule applies here, and this is where I get deeper into who she is, what she is passionate about, and why, I have some of my own passions, such as martial arts, that I can relate with them on this level, and how it makes you feel, etc.
        * I try to setup this date, near myself or her location, if it leads to a longer first date that may lead to sex, you will already be somewhat setup to pursue this.
        * If it doesn't, but feel that things are going well, at the end of the date, I'll pitch a second date, and ask for her availability, etc. And then tell her I'll be in touch with some plans.
        * This is also where the gentleman side comes in as well, this comes naturally to me, and I have been surprised how many women comment positively on it after time, and how many men do not do these things:
        ** I will always walk her to her car, or the bus, or however she got there, and continue chatting along the way, unless she completely shuts that down. Often they will give you the "No, you don't have to" but I do it anyways.
        ** I always walk on the outside of a woman on the sidewalk, I do this for my daughter, or any woman I am with, I actually feel uncomfortable if I don't, there are times, I will actually move around the woman, lightly pressure her to the other side by my hand on their shoulder.
      4. The 2nd date: This should be always near where she lives, or my place, I pitch near where she lives, find someplace intimate for drinks, or an activity, or sometimes dinner. Always plan this yourself, do not ask her what she would like to do!
        I always try to pick her up at her place, here again, no beta shit, "Can I pick you up at your place?" I use something along the line of "Ok, Friday night at 8, I have plans for us, and would love to pick you up at your place, and then head over. " Since you have already built some rapport, they usually respond favorably to this, and I take that as a sign of interest. If they don't, they may be slightly interested, but insure still.
        Always be on time, or slightly early. I will then meet them at their door, and walk them to my car, here again, open the car door for her, and then take her to your date, hold the door to the place, and she goes first through. After the date, always walk her back to the car, and again open the door for her. This right here is very simple, and very effective as they are really not used to this, I don't do this from a 'beta' place though, looking for a thank you, or expect some thing from it. I do it, because I want to do it, and that comes across to them, even unspoken.
      5. After the date: Here, they may get a little nervous, as I am bringing them back to their place, they may get a little quieter, as the wonder what is about to happen. I always tell them, I will walk them back to the door, and you will almost always get "You don't have to" to which I reply, something like "I know I don't have to" while I am getting out of the car, to go open their door and escort them back to the door.
        From here, you can pickup the vibe, I may go for a kiss, a lot of the time, they ask if I would like to come in for a minute, or I'll ask to use the bathroom, as I am older now, more often than not, I actually need to. LOL. Once at this point, all of the familiar ASD rules fall into place.
        * I have had my best success with ASD, as looking at it as not shit tests, or resistance, but a woman trying to overcome her ASD, by essentially asking me to lead her there. Often I do this by agreeing with whatever they say, but then doing it anyway. For example, had one woman in my bed, with nothing on but her panties, and as I started to remove them, she grabbed them and said, you can't take those off, as we are not having sex tonight. My reply was I agree, we can't take those off, as we will wind up having sex, while I was taking them off, and her next comment was. "Do you have condoms?"

      * From BD's original request, also admittedly, in my past, I have spent too much money on dates. I don't do that anymore, and it has not affected my results so far. My most recent lay from online, 45 years old, I paid for wine the first date, then we had dinner the second date, and she picked up dinner, and would not even let me leave the tip! We then went back to her place, and had sex, total was ~4 hours of face time, and this woman told me she had not had sex in 1.5 years.

      * The ages of the online lays I have had this year, in order. 39, 37, 48, 50, 51 and 45

      * This age, they *are* looking for boyfriends, and MLTR is much harder, they may do it for a while, but not be completely comfortable with it. Last week, I got female next'ed by the 50 year old after a couple of months of dating in an open relationship style. The 39 year old is still an FB, the 45 is new, and have not gone through it yet, the 37, 48 and 51 were repeated lays, but took off quickly after, as they want boyfriends.

      * My quickest, online over 33 to sex, was 1 hour coffee date, I bought the coffee, straight to my house to 'watch a movie' and about 1/2 hour of facetime there before we hit the bed. So total was 1.5 hours facetime to sex, with price of 1 cup of coffee, so I think online over 33 to sex quickly 'can' happen at low cost, and my first date lays above have been max 4-5 hours from meet to sex (Although two of them happened in a car, but I don't discriminate about 'where' we had sex from the actually having sex on the first date part.. )

      * They have 'higher standards' in looking for those boyfriends, and my boyfriend/gentleman with an edge vibe may play right into that, at least short term, such as not diving into sex talk on the phone or txt, or right away on the first date. By Gentleman with an edge, I have a corporate job, and I dress a little stylish, but also have necklaces, tattooed, beard, ride a motorcycle, have adventurous activities, ski race, skydive, martial artist, travel, but open doors for them, somewhat laid back approach that they have a hard time 'reading' at times.

      * Interaction: Eye contact, Eye contact! I love to hold eye contact with a woman as she speaks, there are times women have said to me, Wow, you have an intense eye contact, it feels like you are looking right into me. It's not creepy eye contact, it just makes them feel I 'see' them.

      Love to get your feedback on this as well, I am sure I could add more, but let me know your thoughts guys!
      Last edited by ricerocket; 05-05-2015, 08:18 PM.


      • #48
        ricerocket, this is a pretty solid post. Would you care to put it (or maybe a summary of it) into this thread:

        Thread: PLAYER GUIDE: Section 7. Online Game Specifics


        • #49
          Originally posted by ijjjji View Post
          ricerocket, this is a pretty solid post. Would you care to put it (or maybe a summary of it) into this thread:

          Thread: PLAYER GUIDE: Section 7. Online Game Specifics
          Thanks ijjjji, I'll try to clean it up and bit, and throw it on the thread!


          • #50
            Wanted to add a specific, specialized situation that meets BD's criteria.

            It's specialized, bacause it works best when you're travelling on business.

            I call it "Road Sex." Actually, an acquaintance coined that name- he's married, travels a lot on sales trips and to conferences, and this is how he gets his sex requirements met while staying with his LD wife in a sex-starved marriage. He likes to claim that "it doesn't count because it's road sex" - Whatever, man!

            So, especially when you're at large business gatherings, there will be a contingent of women on the prowl. They're looking for hookups while away from the hubby/BF/partner, or are single and like to include recreational sex in their list of extracurricular activities.

            So, what's the recipe?

            • Don't commit to stupid evening activities like going out drinking with your coworkers (my experience with coworkers is that since they are idiotic AFCs, they mess up your game. You can't PU properly when you've got them with you, especially if one of them gets into White Knight/cockblock mode)
            • If there's some evening event that's high-class and likely to have the women out, definitely go to that (ditching your coworkers and interacting with the women)
            • Screen for women who are legitimately attending the conference/travelling on business
              • Why? I've never had a hookup that hasn't turned out well, but
              • Some guys have discovered the girl who was so "fascinated" by him is actually a hooker
              • Yes, guys who've been careless have been scammed by their hookup (girl takes off with wallet & watch while the guy is in the bathroom or asleep)
              • I personally have never known anyone to be caught in the scam depicted in the movie Focus, but I suppose it probably happens

            • I've found it to be pretty easy to check them out for being real. A little shop talk shows you whether they're legit. Actually, I did meet one girl who was a hooker now that I think about it.
            • Ordinarily, shop talk is a vibe-killer, but I find it isn't too bad in this environment. These women are motivated, and as long as you don't overdo it, and get back to the feelings as soon as you're sure she's for real, it will be good.

            So, how do you identify these women on the prowl?

            1. Look for women dressed up & looking good. Women hoping for "something to happen" usually doll themselves up.
            2. Look for women who check the guys in the room room over when they enter, like AFCs scanning for girls
            3. Look for IOIs:
              • Proximity
              • Turning toward a guy who's caught their interest
              • Hair gestures
              • Trying to chat guys up
              • Many have a certain "look" on their faces. It's hard to describe. But you recognize it instantly after you've learned to see it. It's not exactly DDB, but probably related.

            4. Many of these women will actually IOI or even approach guys wearing wedding rings. If you see a girl trying to meet a guy with a ring, you know she's on the prowl.

            What do you do?

            • PUing these women is like shooting fish in a barrel:
              • Approach smoothly, fearlessly (the least bit of betaness will get you blown out)
              • Flirt and tease with a great smile
              • Do not neg, except in a very light, flirty way, unless you get a bit of haughtiness
              • I personally just move on rather than neg the instant a woman gives me attitude. For me, it's not worth spending time overcoming obstacles (YMMV) and it is a concrete demonstration of abundance mentality (other chicks take note when you do this)
              • If no chemistry develops, be polite, but move on
              • You will know when you and she have clicked (if you don't practice!)
              • When that click has happened, you zone out every other woman in the room
              • start the progression: you have to move toward the bedroom step-by-step, with no hesitation

            • If you're in a room with other conference attendees around, especially coworkers, hers or yours, you have to get out to a private location
            • If the chemistry is intense and animalistic, you can probably suggest going outside to talk, then invite her to your room
            • If you're hungry, take her somewhere to eat, make it somewhere private from coworkers
            • I use a more SS style of PU. Once we're away from the prying eyes, I start eliciting feelings, building them and anchoring them to touch. But this is probably overkill. If you just build on the vibe. Confidently suggest going to her room or yours, depending on logistics, it will happen
            • IME talk about fate, about how often good things that are meant to be "just happen" can be immensely helpful. This is chick thinking, not guy thinking. Give them what they want. Be careful, though, some serious prowler chicks can be offended by this talk. They want you to express desire for them, and for you to be the "make it happen" guy. Learn to read them.
            • Note, once you're in close proximity, the Hair Test is your friend.
            • When you get to the room. Always keep in mind that she wants to be fucked, but she wants you to make it happen. Do not wimp out at any point. Whatsoever.

            Finally. Fuck her hard and fuck her well. These women are looking for the transcendent experience in bed that their betas back home can’t give them.

            If you haven't studied the proper sexing of women yet- learn! Study David Shade and other materials on sexing women, practice and get good. In this world, you have to deliver. Believe me women will share gossip about you. This is key to repeat business.

            Note especially that there is a double standard. You, as a guy, must never share anything with anyone about your escapades with her. Period. Don't even think about doing it.

            In particular if you're a lame enough chode that you crave admiration from your AFC coworkers, alpha-up to the point where approval or admiration from such losers is abhorrent to you, and you feel completely above any desire to brag to them.
            __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___

            Anyhow, even though it is very specialized, I think this fits within BD's orginal parameters. < 4 hours, in fact, you're taking way too long if you go as long as 4 hours without closing. Unless you're hungry it can be done over a drink, or even using the invitation to go up to your/her room for a drink. It is not specific to over 33's though, but works just as well on under-33s & over-33's IME. It's not really about an age group, it's about learning how to find meet, attract & close the women who are looking for recreational sex on business travel.


            • #51
              Thought I would add a link to this episode of Mad Men

              It shows a road sex scenario, that's fairly realistic, even the parts where the girl has to intervene a few times to keep the momentum going. But pay especial attention to how Don behaves in the halway around minute 13. This is perfect.

              The thing about road sex is, it just "flows" toward it's conclusion, if you take action. That's what this show captures so well.


              • #52
                Originally posted by The Thin Man View Post
                Before I get to what works for me I have a few observations that I think put the bullet points below in appropriate context. I have linked some key posts at various points, read the links they are helpful in making the points I am trying to make here.
                Bumping this thread for me to read and translate across the age and race barrier... the cold is keeping me in. But yeah look out for for Bacchus' Under 23 Seduction

                It's my understanding that a lot of guys here like younger women... a bit enthusiastically... so do I. But they are all older than me... I don't fuck 16-18 year olds. Usually. Please note the dynamics are a little different if you are a young black guy in a semi-racist town. So it took longer than expected to reach this level.

                I have it down... just need to... drink enough whiskey to figure out how explain it properly.
                “You know I cant hear none of that spend the night shit... that kumbaya shit”


                • #53
                  I'd love to hear how you even relate to early 20s airheads. I'd rather be dating in that direction.

                  Youngest girl I dated in the last 5 years is 27 with most being 39, 35, 37, 46, 34...

                  What do you talk with them about?
                  Granted I look young for my 34 years but dang I have absolutely nothing in common with girls younger than 25.


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by seduski View Post
                    I'd love to hear how you even relate to early 20s airheads. I'd rather be dating in that direction.
                    Ok... the main thing I've noticed is that a lot of girls at this stage have not done... anything really.

                    It's mainly future aspirations. So when I'm in deep conversation what I like to do is talk about future fantasies... things that have not happened yet or will not happen. Where would she go if money wasn't an issue... what are the things she dreams about doing.

                    Which cities are on her list of places to go and why. Art and psychology are pretty big too... because most girls want to be seen as creative and/or interested in the wonders of the mind. Even if they aren't. Make her feel intelligent, funny and charismatic... especially if she seems like the type that gets hit on very often. Have her attempt to relate to you... not the other way around. Sometimes I spend a bit of time talking about how other guys... are clueless about dating in general.

                    Contrasting myself against the "competition." I also like having them share some of crazy/sexual and or slightly embarrassing stories. Like that one time she got drunk and flashed the bartender... or had sex in a forest. I'll lead the conversation in that direction.

                    She will usually ask you to go first. And from there it's a nice segue to sex-talk.
                    “You know I cant hear none of that spend the night shit... that kumbaya shit”


                    • #55
                      Read some bits of this thread and saw:

                      but I feel like anyone giving you a lot of shit-testing in general is taking the screening frame, and you should be able to take it back. Do you guys have anything for frame control?
                      doing PUA shit like cold reads (in my experience anyway) are just going to annoy over-33s and piss them off.
                      Also, going sexual in any way (kino or sex talk) too soon will also piss them off.
                      " men suck, they are all dick for brains apes, frat boy rapists, or worse fat Dockers wearing losers who care more about X-box then pussy, philandering husbands, lying SOBs. Evil Bosses etc…"
                      OK, well as I have become older and bit grey, I have found that NLP is pretty much the ONLY way you can possibly go with seduction. If you do not master it you're at a huge disadvantage.
                      You can get away with not knowing it when you are young and out partying the entire time and meeting lots of girls in social situations with relatively young people - but as you age and move beyond that world and off into your late 30s-40s, your only shot at getting back into that world is through NLP. Essentially you now have to act your age.

                      So yeah, cold-reads work better on the younger set.
                      Intuitions work better on the older set (e.g. "You know, I have an intuition about you", or "you seem like the kind of woman who would")

                      Going sexual can be fun AFTER sex, but before you have carefully choose your words to be more suggestive without being overt.
                      There are a while pile of words in the English language (and probably other ones too), that can be used as innuendo that you can throw about into your spiel.
                      (e.g. passion, intimacy, connection, penetration (if used in context of something else e.g. penetrating thoughts), dreams, desires, fantasies, bonding, energy, electricity, explosion, climax)

                      so for example, "an exploding climax of passion and electricity"
                      You probably need to raid content from "50 shades of grey"

                      Now... shit tests is a big thing with the 30+ female set, and the way I handle this sort of stuff is by misdirection.

                      She says: "men suck, they are all dick for brains apes, frat boy rapists, or worse fat Dockers wearing losers who care more about X-box then pussy, philandering husbands, lying SOBs. Evil Bosses etc"
                      I say : "Well, I don't you if you could IMAGINE finding yourself talking to man who none of those things, and in fact was absolutely perfect in many of the ways that you find very personal and intimate with you, to be a lover, and confidant, and someone who you could be,... well.... very intimate with and share your secrets with..... If you could find yourself talking to such a handsome man, how surprised would you be to FEEL completely different, and CHANGE YOUR MIND about men?"

                      The key phrase is "if you were to"
                      "If you were to" can completely flip a woman's current (and seemingly uncontrollable) emotional state on it's head. You then control the frame and force her to change state.
                      So she says some fucked up shit and starts shit-testing you.
                      You say "Yes but if you were to (be in a situation where the exact opposite of what she thinks), how would you feel then?"

                      It challenges the woman to imagine what you want her to imagine in a safe, theoretical way. However in doing so, it changes her state and makes her feel the emotions of being in that state - EVEN IF IT'S TOTALLY THEORETICAL.
                      Since a woman implicitly trusts her emotions as the "voice of God", once her emotions are changed like this, her REAL objections to you get destroyed.
                      What women want: A man to care about


                      • #56
                        I'm writing this post to be able to look it up later. I will edit this post tomorrow or so.


                        • #57
                          Great post guys. I"m recently divorced and this site has been gold!! It seems like most of the "basics" from the hall of fame work pretty well for this age group too, and as a result, i'm soooo far ahead of my recently divorced peers with women it's crazy. So wanted to say thanks!!

                          I agree, you're probably going to have to spend a little more time/money on this age group. But if you're more established financially (likely at 35+), spending $150 on a dinner once in a while to get a 9-10 'over the line' is worth it (especially if you enjoy a nice dinner ). IMO, the women in this age group are incredible lays (confident in their own skin, very down with non-vanilla sex). I'm fine with it