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  • YES or no

    This is what Brent Smith and all the other advocates of very low effort game give.

    If the girl is not giving signals that say YES or HELL YES then it's automatically a no.

    The moment a girl says I'm not sure it's a next.

    The moment a girl flakes it's a next.

    The moment a girl decides to use any excuse at any moment it's a next.

    Game gives you a chance on the maybe girls but after sometime you realize those maybe girls aren't worth the effort and time.

    This means using your time and effort on meeting a ton of women however you go about doing that because you're aiming for the girls that say YES to you.

    Anything less is an automatic next.

  • #2
    Originally posted by pokerodds View Post
    This is what Brent Smith and all the other advocates of very low effort game give.

    If the girl is not giving signals that say YES or HELL YES then it's automatically a no.

    The moment a girl says I'm not sure it's a next.

    The moment a girl flakes it's a next.

    The moment a girl decides to use any excuse at any moment it's a next.

    Game gives you a chance on the maybe girls but after sometime you realize those maybe girls aren't worth the effort and time.

    This means using your time and effort on meeting a ton of women however you go about doing that because you're aiming for the girls that say YES to you.

    Anything less is an automatic next.
    If you just want to get laid more, sure. If you actually want a sex life made up of sleeping with the hottest women possible I vehemently disagree. It's lazy and cowardly, in my opinion, to just dip out whenever a girl doesn't immediately demand to suck your dick after you say hello. It's also really silly to assume that all women are paying so much attention to every man around them that the decision whether to sleep with you is made in the first few seconds.

    Man this is why I don't use this forum, you guys are so scared to get flaked on that many of you have created this ridiculous narrative that no woman just isn't sure because she simply is not sure.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DJ_Z View Post
      If you just want to get laid more, sure. If you actually want a sex life made up of sleeping with the hottest women possible I vehemently disagree. It's lazy and cowardly, in my opinion, to just dip out whenever a girl doesn't immediately demand to suck your dick after you say hello. It's also really silly to assume that all women are paying so much attention to every man around them that the decision whether to sleep with you is made in the first few seconds.

      Man this is why I don't use this forum, you guys are so scared to get flaked on that many of you have created this ridiculous narrative that no woman just isn't sure because she simply is not sure.
      It's low effort game. You find the girls that are giving you the eye stare right away and you're all set.

      You can always find more neutral girls and use all the skills posted here to sleep with them. That takes more effort.

      It could be that my game is mediocre when it comes to girls that aren't sure but whenever a girl says I'm not sure or I don't know it never really worked out even with a lot of effort game wise.

      You're also making an extreme argument. My examples are more trigger words that occur during the course of general interaction the first time we meet or the third time we meet. If she says I am not sure or I don't know this means that for one reason or another she is still very much in doubt.

      Great game can turn this doubt around but that is not low effort.

      Comment


      • #4
        If the girl is not giving signals that say YES or HELL YES then it's automatically a no.
        Not so black and white. Women have a lot of social pressure to keep a certain appearance. Your job is to show up as a man, approach women, and give them the opportunity to spend time with you in a non-needy way.

        For instance, she may be there with her parents, friends, co-workers, etc. Tell her what you want in basic yet direct terms; that you want to meet her sometime soon, just the two of you. This is when you tell her to take your number and send you a text. From here you give her 2 chances to meet up with you on your terms. Drinks or coffee at a place convenient for both of you. 2 chances, that's all she gets. Any fickleness on her part means you drop her.

        The moment a girl says I'm not sure it's a next.
        Again, you giver her an option that is easy and appealing. Meet for drinks, no more than an hour of her time. If that's not of interest to her, then drop her.

        The moment a girl flakes it's a next.
        Agreed.


        The moment a girl decides to use any excuse at any moment it's a next.
        "No worries, hope it all works out." Then you forget about her.


        Game gives you a chance on the maybe girls but after sometime you realize those maybe girls aren't worth the effort and time.
        I've had lots of fun with girls that were maybes. So what if it didn't turn into a night of sex. Have other women in your life that are providing that sex on tap. Have fun with the moments you interact with women, and don't worry so much about "scoring".


        This means using your time and effort on meeting a ton of women however you go about doing that because you're aiming for the girls that say YES to you.
        Aim for women you find attractive. Present yourself in an honest and genuine way. Their lack of interest is not a reflection on you, and should not affect how you value yourself.

        I watched a lot of Brent's videos, but found his lack of pursuing to be a bit hard to put into action. I feel like a man has to pursue women, as they are the buyers in the sexual market. My ideal method of pursuing women is to simply approach them in a normal and positive fashion, and tell them I would like to meet up with them later, or better yet right now to have a drink and see if there is any chemistry.

        A great skill to develop is to become numb and indifferent to rejections. So what if some girl you randomly met doesn't like you. At least you presented yourself for selection in the mating pool.



        - Tech

        Comment


        • #5
          I find this interesting. Pokerodds.

          While I've had my fair share of "hell no" girls (mainly a thing of the past for me nowadays) and I do meet an attractive girl that's "hell yes" for me on occasion. To do this consistently, I have to approach high volumes of women and screen very hard. This is not KJ on my part, I have put in some numbers in my short time on this earth... IOI's are there of course, but most of the chicks who'd look my way if I took a stroll downtown are not a "hell yes" for me.

          I have a couple scenarios for you, if you'll oblige me.

          Say you approach 20 girls tomorrow afternoon. Screening hard of course and you find out that only 1 of them is... for all intents and purposes.... DTF.

          And the next day your natural buddy, approaches one or two girls... and focuses raising her desire, tipping her from on-the-fence, to a strong-maybe until she too is DTF.

          Which is the route of least effort here? And who would you say is the more well-rounded seducer?

          If both of you were going for the same girl, who is more likely to triumph against the other?

          The reason I ask this, is because I'm starting to see value in screening less. At least in the initial stages of seduction. I'm not bashing screening... I did nothing but that for 2 years. And I'm not insisting you stop screening either. Screening is a great tool. I'd just like to have a discussion on this.

          Comment


          • #6
            If you immediately next a lot of women because they don't agree with you right away, you'll find that you'll also lose a lot of women who were actually interested.

            Brent Smith hates chasing and reaching out for the following reasons:
            • If you expend energy on reaching out, it feels worse getting rejected and can easily hurt your self confidence
            • The more energy you're willing to spend on reaching out, the more needy you are, and the more a rejection will hurt
            • Last but not least, it gives you a bad reputation among the women you're reaching out to, especially if you're being needy


            Not only does it make you look bad, it makes you feel bad too. None of those complies well with gaining mastery or building confidence. In fact, if taken too far, it can seriously hurt your ability to meet women. As the saying goes, you will only be ready to love somebody when you start loving yourself, and that's extremely hard to do when you're feeling needy and bad.

            This doesn't mean you should next women just because they can't agree to something right off the bat. I mean, they've got a life too, and you can't really expect them to drop everything just to meet you.

            The fact is, Brent Smith is all about maximizing opportunity, and hard-nexting doesn't really go well with that. On the flip-side he's also all about saving energy, and spending as little energy on hooking up with women as possible while still playing his cards right.

            So how do you do that?

            The simplified answer is that he probes the girl for interest, makes a suggestion for her to come with him right away, and if she doesn't seem keen on that, then he gives her a counter-offer instead—but one that requires her to invest a little energy too if she wants to continue interacting with him.

            That's not nexting nor saying no. That's giving a counter offer, but one that still insists that she also spend energy on the interaction if she wants it to continue. In short, he's keeping his door open instead of shutting it or burning the bridge, but she's the one who has to put in the effort if she want's to continue seeing him.

            If you analyze this in-depth, you'll see that this way of dealing with interactions has several benefits to it:
            • It respects that she might have other things going on in her life
            • It keeps with the saying that it takes two to tango; that she has to participate if she wants the interaction to continue
            • It's not needy, but still shows that you appreciate her, which of course is very endearing
            • She will understand all these things too, which increase her respect for you a lot even if she decide to never contact you again
            • Last but not least, the moment she comes after you (and they will), you'll feel both needed and loved, which is just freaking great for your self confidence


            tl;dr: Never hard-next. Keep your door open. If she doesn't initially seem interested, give her your contact information with a counter-offer in the form of an open invitation. Google "open invitation" if you don't know what it is. There are already a ton of posts about it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bacchus View Post
              I find this interesting. Pokerodds.

              While I've had my fair share of "hell no" girls (mainly a thing of the past for me nowadays) and I do meet an attractive girl that's "hell yes" for me on occasion. To do this consistently, I have to approach high volumes of women and screen very hard. This is not KJ on my part, I have put in some numbers in my short time on this earth... IOI's are there of course, but most of the chicks who'd look my way if I took a stroll downtown are not a "hell yes" for me.

              I have a couple scenarios for you, if you'll oblige me.

              Say you approach 20 girls tomorrow afternoon. Screening hard of course and you find out that only 1 of them is... for all intents and purposes.... DTF.

              And the next day your natural buddy, approaches one or two girls... and focuses raising her desire, tipping her from on-the-fence, to a strong-maybe until she too is DTF.

              Which is the route of least effort here? And who would you say is the more well-rounded seducer?

              If both of you were going for the same girl, who is more likely to triumph against the other?

              The reason I ask this, is because I'm starting to see value in screening less. At least in the initial stages of seduction. I'm not bashing screening... I did nothing but that for 2 years. And I'm not insisting you stop screening either. Screening is a great tool. I'd just like to have a discussion on this.

              I don't think there's much of a point in working on hard No girls. Why not screen those out?

              Converting a Maybe to Yes is 'seduction'. Banging a Hell Yes girl is just hooking up.

              Comment


              • #8
                Me neither. I don't meet a lot of hard No girls these days. Whenever I do, the interaction ends right there.

                I do meet an abundance of Maybe girls, girls who are on the fence. The OP was suggesting screening those girls out as well and simply going for the Hell Yes girls. Which is just hooking up, as you said.

                I think we're saying the same thing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ratata, thanks for clarifying Brent Smith game, open invitation is definitely the best way to play that and that could actually improve my game.

                  Kant, good way of putting what seduction is. In personal experience I've probably had very few maybe types.

                  Originally posted by Bacchus View Post
                  I find this interesting. Pokerodds.

                  While I've had my fair share of "hell no" girls (mainly a thing of the past for me nowadays) and I do meet an attractive girl that's "hell yes" for me on occasion. To do this consistently, I have to approach high volumes of women and screen very hard. This is not KJ on my part, I have put in some numbers in my short time on this earth... IOI's are there of course, but most of the chicks who'd look my way if I took a stroll downtown are not a "hell yes" for me.

                  I have a couple scenarios for you, if you'll oblige me.

                  Say you approach 20 girls tomorrow afternoon. Screening hard of course and you find out that only 1 of them is... for all intents and purposes.... DTF.

                  And the next day your natural buddy, approaches one or two girls... and focuses raising her desire, tipping her from on-the-fence, to a strong-maybe until she too is DTF.

                  Which is the route of least effort here? And who would you say is the more well-rounded seducer?

                  If both of you were going for the same girl, who is more likely to triumph against the other?

                  The reason I ask this, is because I'm starting to see value in screening less. At least in the initial stages of seduction. I'm not bashing screening... I did nothing but that for 2 years. And I'm not insisting you stop screening either. Screening is a great tool. I'd just like to have a discussion on this.
                  Bacchus, thanks for replying. There's no real right or wrong answer here. It could be down to how you play it and what the girl determines is most important to her and so many other variables that are discussed on this forum. If she wants to go for a natural then for all intents and purposes we can claim that she would end up with the natural buddy but I've learned through many years of game that it only matters if you pass the threshold. If more than one guy passes the threshold she will determine other variables like social circle acceptance, if it's long term, if you're nearby, and many other things. So the triumph question is answered by do you pass the threshold? If both of you do, what other variables favor you over other guys? If not, then she picks the one that does.

                  Approaching 20 girls versus converting 1-2 girls is personal preference and understanding what game works for you. Based on my history posting here, I am not Caucasian. This alone polarizes a ton of women and therefore it would be better for me to approach a lot of girls because I would highly prefer the one that really likes my ethnic background. In summary, I don't as many "maybe" type girls as a Caucasian dude where the latter method would be a better method. I have more "hell no" girls but when I find my demographic, I get way more "hell yes" girls and a little bit of "maybe" girls.

                  Most average looking guys will have to put the work and approach way more women to play the numbers game. The lower effort comes from knowing which ones are hell yes.

                  Originally posted by Tech View Post
                  Not so black and white. Women have a lot of social pressure to keep a certain appearance. Your job is to show up as a man, approach women, and give them the opportunity to spend time with you in a non-needy way.

                  For instance, she may be there with her parents, friends, co-workers, etc. Tell her what you want in basic yet direct terms; that you want to meet her sometime soon, just the two of you. This is when you tell her to take your number and send you a text. From here you give her 2 chances to meet up with you on your terms. Drinks or coffee at a place convenient for both of you. 2 chances, that's all she gets. Any fickleness on her part means you drop her.

                  Again, you giver her an option that is easy and appealing. Meet for drinks, no more than an hour of her time. If that's not of interest to her, then drop her.

                  "No worries, hope it all works out." Then you forget about her.

                  I've had lots of fun with girls that were maybes. So what if it didn't turn into a night of sex. Have other women in your life that are providing that sex on tap. Have fun with the moments you interact with women, and don't worry so much about "scoring".

                  Aim for women you find attractive. Present yourself in an honest and genuine way. Their lack of interest is not a reflection on you, and should not affect how you value yourself.

                  I watched a lot of Brent's videos, but found his lack of pursuing to be a bit hard to put into action. I feel like a man has to pursue women, as they are the buyers in the sexual market. My ideal method of pursuing women is to simply approach them in a normal and positive fashion, and tell them I would like to meet up with them later, or better yet right now to have a drink and see if there is any chemistry.

                  A great skill to develop is to become numb and indifferent to rejections. So what if some girl you randomly met doesn't like you. At least you presented yourself for selection in the mating pool.

                  - Tech
                  Definitely valid points that I agree with. The thing is that when a girl is HELL YES you will feel that even with a friend or in social situations where it's not acceptable to be so forward she will find a way to give signals that she is interested. For example, one of the girls I was with recently seemed so quiet and a little pissed off that I was giving all the attention to her friend. I wanted to give her friend all the attention because I know that's all her friend wanted and somehow I knew she would excuse herself from the interaction after she got that. Then when I was isolated with the original girl it was go time.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I may be misunderstanding the post, but I interpret it as 'IOI reliant bullshit', which we all know I strongly disagree with.

                    Correct for me would be: NO or 'continue gaming'.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ijjjji View Post
                      I may be misunderstanding the post, but I interpret it as 'IOI reliant bullshit', which we all know I strongly disagree with.

                      Correct for me would be: NO or 'continue gaming'.
                      Ijjjji,

                      It isn't IOI reliant crap. It's more like if the girl is making the effort to meet you and talk to you then that's a YES. If the girl is saying she's not sure if she wants to meet again, she is a maybe and therefore no according to my post.

                      Game can overcome an occasional maybe girl but my argument is the effort needed for that can be used to find more YES girls.

                      I will add that good points were made like replying to a maybe girl with an open invite, while that rarely works, at least for me, that can be low effort but still trying to see if the maybe girl is leaning towards yes.

                      The metaphorical masterpieces you make I'll try by saying it's worth it if the girl is making it effortless and not worth it if there's restraint.

                      Comment

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