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Sex Talk Calibration (attn: hey_lover)

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  • Practical Technique Sex Talk Calibration (attn: hey_lover)

    Hi everyone. Hey_lover asked a few interesting questions in my “pansexual frame" thread. In this thread, he presented a few difficulties when using sex talk. The two issues he was facing were: women turning cold after using sex talk, and women not showing up on dates - orshowing up with totally different vibe.

    I will in this post clarify the reasons he faces those difficulties but also cover the deeper problem – a problem of calibration. Before I get to the main topic, allow me to respond to a few commonly asked questions. The main question will be discussed under the title “Calibration”. You will see how my responses to hey_lover are all related to calibration – which we will cover in more deeply at the end of this post.

    Originally posted by hey_lover View Post
    Just finished listening to this; I can't wait to try it out.

    Couple questions. I apologise if I've asked these questions before. Wouldn't be surprised if I did.

    How quickly do you bring this talk into play? My sneaky intuition is to do it immediately after the name exchange, ask them how their weekends been. As a normal courtesy, every one fucking asks the question back, even if you have no desire to hear about it. That's when you can start, Well, I was out in a club last night....
    This really depends on you, the girl and the situation – like with any other pick up system. This is a symptom of the linear system introduced in the community – i.e that you have to go through step 1-2-3 etc… where in fact, seduction is not that linear – only in terms logistics, not in terms of actually generating compliance, inducing states and leading her emotionally. The linear system introduced served as models – to make sense of things. The problem with many men in this community is that many take models as recipes where in fact, they only serve as a way to ”kind off” represent reality – to have something to help us make sense of it. In field it is all about intuition – something you get only from field experience (repeats success and failures).

    Every girl, every situation and even how you feel differs all the time – and therefore calibration is required. So to answer this question: it depends. Sometimes I introduce it right away – consider a scenario where few friends or around (or her friend seem super cool and easy going – perhaps even sexually open minded) and I happen to naturally connect with her quickly. Other times, it might take a while – some rapport is needed and I really need to hook her in first. In those cases it might take 10-15 minutes before introducing. Sometimes, the topic comes up… there were no opening for me to pull it off and every attempt has failed – in which case i might use something resembling good old GWM – rapport + sexualization. It depends on the situation. If you see an opening then try to introduce it. In my experience, it is possible to force the sexual frame verbally – but oftentimes that can fail drastically.

    During daygame – which I rarely do these days, I used to only introduce the topic when I manage to extract her to a bench or a coffee shop (also called ”instant date”). I rarely brought it up during the initial meeting – although I have done it a few times with success (hit or miss). If I don’t get to instant date, I would bring it up on a day2 instead.

    How often do you fractionate to lighter topics? I'm thinking of pairing each sex talk pattern with a light hearted kino trick. Do a sexual pattern and then ask her how great her hugs are. Do another pattern, and then play thumb wars. Just flip between sex talk and similar non-sequiters.
    As a rule of thumb, you would like to fractionate every time you finish a topic – let us say you share a story – fractionate right away after you are done. Or let us say you talk about orgasms, then fractionate once you have made you point. If you talked about sexual liberalism, same principle applies. To not start a new thread related to sex, swap into something else. The idea here is to not inflate your sex talk by getting her to used to it. If that happens, it loses its impact as she won’t find it exciting anymore.

    An even better thing to do is to fractionate out right before you are about to conclude your thread/topic. For example, if you talk about ”8 types of orgasms”, mention only 4 or 5 of them and then change topic – leave her confused (a good state inducing trance) and lead her wanting more (more compliance). If she discuss dominance, and consider there are 3 things about that you would like to mention, mention only 2 of them. Or share a sex story and fractionate out before the climax.

    You can always get back to it. If she turns cold because of a state change (women’s emotions are fluid, they are in a constant change), then bring the topic back up in order to trigger an anchor and light her up again.


    How long do you spend in a lighter topic, before going back into another sexual pattern?
    Depends – I usually fractionate back when I am done with the light topic I tend to conclude those – just because I don’t want to make a boring topic too fancy.

    Of course, when fractionated, you might want to talk about a topic and fractionate back into sex talk – either finish an earlier topic or start a new one. I tend to have like 2-3 unfinished threads – so I technically start a new threat/topic before ”concluding” a previous one.

    I oftentimes use ”fast paced fractionation” where you fractionate a lot very quickly. This a more complicated NLP trick that really fucks with her brain – but I will this topic for another time.


    How much of the verbal content are you responsible for during the entire interaction? It seems to me that you have to keep unloading more and more content to keep her in the trance like state.
    I always lead the interaction. However it depends to the girl. If she has something to contribute that is actually useful – such as something related to sex… then let her talk… if she doesn’t, then you do most of the talking. It usually varies better 50/50 and 70/30-20/80 (my doing most of the talking). Most women are pretty sexually inexperienced and in such cases I tend to do most of the talking because that simply allow me to demonstrate more knowledge. But if she is a talkative girl and a lot of sexual experience, let her talk. Again… CALIBRATION.

    Lastly, how soon into the interaction do you pull, when you can see her internal beast ready to explode? It seems to me that as soon as you get a girl feeling like this, you've got to take her somewhere incredibly quick for a release before she returns to her senses. I had 4 girls that I used heavy descriptive sex talk (not directly involving them) in the past few weeks, all 4 became incredibly aroused, but then resisted extraction attempts at the end, and refused to meet me again at a later date.
    It depends. It is never about “when” in terms of at what stage of the process or at what time, but rather about “when” in turns of how SHE is feeling, and the signs she gives me. It is all about the signs she gives you. This is what you have to calibrate according to.

    I tend to pull whenever I see compliance. Thing is, I do not really care about whether or not she reaches the point of no return in terms of horniness when it comes to pulling. Of course if she reaches that point, I will pull. If she doesn’t, I will still attempt to pull anyway if she has given me a decent amount of “green cards”. Truth is, she might never reach a “higher point” of horniness and compliance, so maybe, for all I know, this will be the best I can get. I will therefore pull whenever I feel there is a chance of her saying yes. If she says no, I do not care, I just change topic (or fractionate out) for a bit before going back into the juicy stuff, for then trying to go for the push at a later occasion. Women love persistence – they actually get attracted to persistent men. By taking a step back, like advocated here, you do not come across as needy. By persisting, you take away the guilt from her (guilt as in ASD), which can increase her compliance. It also shows confidence, which is attractive. In addition it gives you the opportunity to “seduce her more “ and get another chance of pulling, with higher compliance this time.

    Bottom line: go for the pull whenever you get a decent-high amount of green card – here you need to rely on your intuition (read: field experience). If that fails (no big deal), take a step back, seduce her more (for example more sex talk) and try again later. Do not fair the no. Or like gunwitch, the king of persistence used to say: “make the ho say no”.

    Originally posted by bazoom View Post
    I see you post in some sex talk threads. Did you try the sexual reframing before going into verbal escalation? Have her be on same page.
    Sex talk (tva style) has different parts and it's helpful to use order so you can calibrate. It's not only to arouse. -Strong- arousal comes as last part.
    IMO try sexual framing tva style (talk about sex in a broad way how it occurs in society and culture etc, judgment etc, men being creepy or what ever) and see if she responds positively and starts to talk and show that sign of "finally someone who gets it, thats so good to hear what you're saying". Get the conv there smoothly so she will hook and you've done a lot of work... then there are many ways to continue
    It is true that sex talk serves 2 purposes: “make her feel like desiring you” and “make her feel allowed to desire you”. However, this is again not a linear method. One can start with making her sexually interested in you, and if facing some ASD use the sexual reframes (“make her feel allowed”). However note that I used to tell people to use the sexual reframes – i.e. reframe (reframe because conventional views around sex are usually negative – and if she is sex positive, this is probably not really needed anyway) her views around sex before using the juicy stuff (sexual prizing) and make her desire you sexually.

    Originally posted by hey_lover View Post
    I structured it out exactly how Teev said. Girls agree wholeheartedly and thank me for my views and openness. I then dial it up to a kiss or not, and then try to extract to no avail.
    There is a catch here.

    Sexual reframes is not about making her desire you, but more her feel allowed – which you did… and she thanked you for that. But where was the desire?

    Originally posted by hey_lover View Post
    The issue I seem to be having is that whilst in the moment they are deeply into it, once they are broken away from the trance, they must be looking in retrospect with regret or ASD and that is the reason why they don't follow through. One of the girls I recently used it on, whilst walking her back to the tube station, she stopped me, pulled me into her arms, and gave me full fucking tongue down. This was a Day 2 with no alcohol involved. Yet, she doesn't respond to my text messages since then.
    Now, the second catch is: if you make her horny, remember that if you push sex talk to its juicy limits – i.e. make her horny to the point of no return, she will turn cold if you fail to seal the deal. There are 2 reasons for that:
    - She “sobers up” - she was so horny and so attracted, and now you are gone and time has passed, she wakes up from the adventure you’ve dragged her into and she realizes “holy shit this was crazy… wtf happened.. .woah”, ASD kicks in (and you are not there to really handle it) and she freaks out. Women love and fear the new, and the hate the new when they are around (why they need a man to lead them). If you are not there present with her, you are unable to make feel that you are there to lead her, because over text, you are WAY to distanced from her.
    - Auto-rejection – if you create an escalation window, i.e. an opportunity to seal the deal (as in pulling and fucking) and fail to capitalize on that, women lose their mood (and sometimes-even attraction. They wonder why you didn’t make it happen (which is you role as a “dominant” man) and start wondering if you are not into them and pretty much “loses hope” , which leads to auto-rejection (women just dropping you out because she things you won’t make it happen).

    Pureevil mentions this as well:

    Originally posted by pureevil View Post
    From these descriptions, both of these girls really wanted you to find a way to fuck them (isolating properly, escalating properly, locking them into the moment with you, arousing them to the point where they can't wait for your cock.) They sound half way there, which means they could easily be all the way there. When a guy misses his window girls can lose interest instantly, its pretty striking. Happened to me more than a few times earlier on until I learned, you gotta close when the window is open.
    Solution: if you are unable to close (as in pulling and fucking) because of logistics, do not go for the super juicy sex talk – the type that serves the purpose of making her super horny and excited. It fades down quickly and can lead to freaks and ASD kicks when she sobers up and can auto-reject herself due to your failure to seal the deal while the window was open. Therefore, it is key to screen for logistics as early as you can, and if you need to go for the number close, focus on the EFA aspect of sex talk (like Bazoom said) – i.e. set the ground frame (sexual frame) so that you have a good baseline to work on when you meet her the next time. After number closing, do not leave right away, but keep talking to her for some additional rapport (maybe 5 more minutes). Additional rapport increases the chances of her responding. When it comes to texting and stuff – do not ask me… I suck hard at it (hence why I rarely text other than logistical stuff – “meet up X place Y time”) and prefer calling her. I will text a few simple messages if not responses, but if that fails I just move on. That being said I very rarely number close (I kinda don’t like “dates”/”day2’s)

    CALIBRATION

    It seems hey_lover is a bit too hung up on what to do and what to say at “each section” or the interaction. I understand that this system is complex and that one wants to do it right and remember all the details.

    But the truth is, you will never get good at it if you do not pay attention to HER – her reactions, her response- being verbal or non-verbal. This is where the next level comes in – where you can be smoothly calibrated to her response.

    It doesn’t matter if you don’t use the perfect text book sex talk (using the super awesome topic and follow the “ideal” model of a good sex talk related seduction or use every communication trick in the book) if you fail to actually calibrate.

    Calibration are mentioned comes from field experience, but the first step is to chill and take a step back and actually pay attention to her – to her response.
    - Is she responding positively to that topic? If yes, maybe keep on going that track? And intensify it?
    - Is she responding negatively? If yes, maybe take a step back and try something else? Switch topic maybe? Or maybe stop talking about sex and talk about some cool stuff while you escalate physically?
    - Neutral response? Switch topic? Intensify? Consider switching strategy all together?

    Once you pay attention to her, you can really calibrate, and once you do that, not only will you come across as socially savvy (which is cool), but she will feel that “you are that guy who finally understands her” – a strong rapport will be created because your communication (either verbal or non-verbal) matches her perfectly. This is when you get the magic. When you are able to that unconsciously, then you can focus on trying to use the fancy stuff and use se talk perfectly, but unless you are able to do this, everything you do will become more or less useless.

    And again: field experience is everything. I am pretty calibrated with this because I have done this since 2008 (8 years!). It takes time and you need to go out and fail – push it… fail to see how far you can push in X situation with Y girl… and sometimes you will succeed. Rinse and repeat this process and you will know what “the sweet spot is” for most situations. This is when you get really good. And remember: pay attention to her.

    Do not fear resistance (ASD). I told this to impulse – NEVER fear ASD. ASD kicks are opportunities, not crutches. Every time she ASD kicks, you have the option to reframe her response to you benefits! And as mentioned earlier: persistence is attractive. I discuss the following in this thread. If you haven’t read it, I urge you to do so.

    Before I leave, here are some good and interesting insights from Bacchus (for those who didn't bother to scroll through tons of pages in the pansexual thread).

    Originally posted by Bacchus View Post
    Thought that maybe I could offer some insight here.

    Like Teev mentioned... I made my own adjustments (a la "sexual gourmet") so I could work it for day game... date game and night game as well. Here's how I do it.

    I set the initial frame up with verbal intrigue... conversational bait. As well as gender bending and androgyny in attire and vibe... so it's congruent. Like bazoom said, the initial frame is not for strong arousal... making the girl horny. That comes later. This is a subtle frame grab that encourages her to discover more about you. With the pansexual frame you want her to become curious about your sexuality... what is it you know about sex.

    Or what is it you could do to her... that she has never experienced before. Bad, sloppy and crappy sex is common as fuck. But good sex... or the possibility of it is something new and exciting that a woman craves on a fantasy level is a rare thing.

    Again Teevster said this... and it's worth repeating after setting the conversation up this way you've just swiped in a free card to talk about sex. However the sub-communictaion here... is NOT "let's just get this conversation over with so we can fuck."

    Instead it's here are my views and experiences... I'm still trying to decide whether or not... this girl is worth going to bed with. So I'll keep talking to her and see what happens. You can see why following this up with caveman style escalation... and a direct extraction... with no plausible deniability... may come across as un-smooth. After all you're only presenting an option as to what could happen... if she plays her cards right. So for the seduction to proceed... she dials up her interest.

    You could encourage that by giving her a hoop to jump through... like an opportunity to qualify herself sexually to you. Or to escalate/kiss you. Some girls with a more submissive vibe respond very well to compliance ladders... you can play with that too.

    Now at this point planting sexually suggestive thoughts and scenarios in her mind via NLP would be almost too easy... because she is qualifying herself to you. She has submitted to your frame completely. Ramp up the emotional stimulation... and sexual arousal.

    And then fractionate to avoid over-doing it. Talk about something dull and boring, let her want to hear more... confuse her a little.

    After which you could say something about how dead it is tonight... or how you have these photos from a trip to Barcelona or something... where does she live... is it far? Or just follow me I want to show you something... whatever. Extract smoothly.

    Questions?

    Good luck

    -Teev
    Last edited by Teevster; 10-31-2016, 07:21 PM.
    Teevster (TVA_Oslo) AKA. Alek Rolstad

    Projects 2018:
    - Still Rocking
    - Flipping Lesbians (have sex with lesbians)
    - 10 year in PU anniversary!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Teevster View Post
    This really depends on you, the girl and the situation – like with any other pick up system. This is a symptom of the linear system introduced in the community – i.e that you have to go through step 1-2-3 etc… where in fact, seduction is not that linear – only in terms logistics
    Most definitely.

    A misunderstanding (that I've also made) about verbal/technical game is the assumption that because it is discussed logically...

    ...Then the interaction should proceed... logically and in order. This rarely ever works for me... because I find time and time again that women are not logical when it comes to thoughts, perceptions and emotional states. So to treat them like logical beings... is the seductions kiss of death.

    I try to look at how the girl is responding to me... and make quick decisions from there. Instead of sounding forced, rehearsed and mechanical. I try to able to be able to come out my own head... and see where she's at emotionally. Then I can maybe shift focus into handling logistics for a bit. That being said I do have a bunch of verbal stacks that I can auto-pilot/reflexively pop off into if I'm at a point in the interaction that I'm very familiar with.

    Originally posted by Teevster View Post
    It is true that sex talk serves 2 purposes: “make her feel like desiring you” and “make her feel allowed to desire you”. However, this is again not a linear method
    What do you think about a circular method? Instead of linear... let's go circular

    Say I'm talking to a girl and it seems like she's restrained with sexual tension or not paying much attention. It might useful to fractionate into some juicy, hypnotic sex-talk. But it's important to avoid taking this too far... I deal with young women a lot and they can have a fear response and just look for ways to exit the situation.

    So if she starts responding with some verbal or non-verbal push-back, circle into a different conversation thread and change her mood.

    I do this with ambivalent, intriguing verbal game and sometimes a form of depreciating humor and dry wit. It's hard for a girl to emotionally push-back when a strong feeling of curiosity takes over... or if she's giggling in laughter. So I've been finding more value in seeing things in a circular structure, going back and forth between “make her feel like desiring you” and “make her feel allowed to desire you.”

    And constantly looping between the two tends to make the conversations far more calibrated and smooth... as a side-effect.
    “You know I cant hear none of that spend the night shit... that kumbaya shit”

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