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Outcome Independence and how it affects your game

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  • Outcome Independence and how it affects your game

    This is going to be a post mainly for beginners , cause Iīm in no state to teach you advanced guys something allthough you can all feel free to comment or discuss anything mentioned.

    I wanted to post something around this lines for a while but i always thought my english isnīt good enough to put my thoughts into reasonable writing. And I still think it isnīt and I have to work on it but i just wanted to give it a try.

    When I started lurking around masf I learned rapidly that Outcome Independence is one of the most important things in PU but i didnīt unterstand it correctly.

    Few days ago there was a post about OI (Outcome Independence) here , where I again saw that a lot of people have a different views on what OI really is. I had a problem with OI because i thought why should i talk to a girl when i donīt care if i lay her or not. (stupid thoughts i know)

    But for the rest of the post i will use BDīs definition for OI if you donīt mind.

    In this post

    BD said: Outcome Independence: "Yeah, I'd like to fuck you, but if I don't, I'll just go fuck another chick as hot as you. Makes no difference to me."

    And this is just the way i look at OI today. And now i want to tell why it is so important and tell you from an example to illustrate my experience.

    In the old masf Iīve read a post where someone defines escalation as anything you do in an interaction with a girl where you risk rejection, when i remember this post correctly.

    I donīt know if anyone agrees with this definition but letīs just say you need to risk losing a girl when you want to seduce her.
    And that is the crucial point where OI kicks in.

    You canīt open a set , or do kino escalation, or go for a kiss or try to beat LMR when youīre afraid of rejection.
    Ok i think you can but not in the best possible way and that is why OI will improve your game drastically.

    When youīre really confident and Outcome independent you can do all this things and they are naturally for you and so will be alot easier.

    Now to the example.
    My LTR ended just a few weeks ago and i got to know a HB (HBRed) while i was still in my LTR and i liked her but i just didnīt care if Iīm gonna lay her some time cause i didnīt want to cheat on my GF.
    Just a few days before i broke up with my GF i met HBRed at a bar and it everything went fine. We had some light kino , she paid for the drinks and afterwards she brought me to the streetcar and waited till i got in.
    When i mentioned that she is switching the traditional roles with paying and accompany me to the street car she said : she thinks that a woman can also do something for her man. Of course i negged her for calling me HER man. So we hugged and that was it.
    I couldnīt care less if i lay this chick or not and i just enjoyed the company of a really cute girl.

    Then i broke up with my GF and of course wanted to lay HBRed the next day. And as you think all my OI was gone at that moment cause i really really wanted to lay her. So I started struggling. I met her one night and went to my favorite place , which is a small mountain right outside the town where you have a great view on the skyline. Perfect spot to lay chicks so i tried escalating but i was nervous so i didnīt work quite well.
    And when i drove her home and said goodbye in my car and hugged her i saw the look on her face ( You all know this "pls kiss me look") and just felt that this was the "perfect" moment. And i feared the rejection and chickened out and did nothing. All because i wasnīt oucome independent.

    I met her again at her place we were watching some dvd and she was laying in my arms and i was caressing her back and that was all i was so feared of the rejection that i didnīt try to go further. I could tell you about more and more moments with HBRed where i behaved super AFC like and stupid. But i want to end this story here. With telling you guys she asked me to stay over this night and so i finally went for a kiss after hours.

    And the next time i saw her and we were kissing she said: "Donīt think Iīm gonna sleep with you today" which is the ultimate indicator that she wants to sleep with me so i finally layed her but just because she was really attracted and did a lot of work. Normally i would have fucked this up big time.

    And all this because i was feared of rejection or whatever. I wasnīt outcome independent and behaved like an idiot.

    After i layed her i couldnīt care less again and i really saw how HBRed became super sweet and nice to keep me around.
    Few weeks later i became a bit needy i think because i realized Iīm not that confident than i was before my LTR and with my ex still living with me it will be hard to pull more women so i didnīt want to lose HBRed which ended up in her LSNFTEīd me and me writing BD an email asking for help. (thx again for your help)

    And here i am starting my mission of gftow next month and try to tell everyone who hasnīt understood yet how important OI is.

    The last point i want to mention is why beginners have a lot of problems with OI and how to fix this.

    At first i mentioned that a lot of guys donīt understand the real reason behind OI.
    And the next thing and this is the most important part is, without getting rejected and learning that rejection is nothing you have to fear you canīt be outcome independent. You have to experience that some girls just will reject you for any reason and that you can lay other girls and that you should never be afraid of rejection because the girl is nothing super special and you can just lay an other or even hotter girl instead.

    But to learn this you need to practice and get field experience. A lot.
    And this is what Iīm gonna do in the future cause i need to learn this again. LTRīs have ruined me guys.

    I hope you could stand my english and that at least anyone learned something from my experience.
    At least Iīve learned something from writing this and i think i will have to read this over and over again if iīll end up having oneitis or canīt stop thinking about this "one special girl"
    Weīll see.
    So thanks for reading this and any comments are welcome.


  • #2
    Thanks Reptar, your post on this topic will surely help us, beginners.
    But having approached a handful of girls, I cannot distinguish where is Outcome Independence, and where is cowardice. I hope you understand what I mean? It is like when I approach some girls, I don't do my best, they send out IO like hell but I am confused as how to ESCALATE, and thus I stop without trying and leaving them behind with a silly thought: "I'm OI, I don't give a shit, I can get laid the next girl." Now I understand I am not OI, because I am afraid of rejection. [sigh]

    After thinking hard about it, perhaps Outcome Independence is not an excuse to run away from battlefield even before the whistle starts.