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Crash course in verbals for those unfamiliar

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  • #46
    I think you are missing the point of my post tank and getting way off track
    The point of the post is like hey lover said
    If you don't verbalise something, she won't know

    Verbalising frees her up to know your stances

    IF SHE IS STUCK NOT KNOWING
    It creates anxiety and allows negative assumptions to persist


    DOESNT MATTER IF GUYS ARE PURE AS THE FRESHLY FALLEN SNOW
    If assumptions exist AND THEY DO
    You want to not only show the opposite of said assumption but verbalise it, so any lingering doubts go away

    IT ALSO DOUBLES AS GREAT STIMULATING CONVO RELEVANT TO HER WORLD VIEW
    allowing you to avoid talking nonsense things about your world view she might find uninteresting


    Skills does verbal game, at least over text, so does ijjjji
    What they don't GET is how to expand it beyond how they are particularly using it, in order to make things more fluid and consistent
    Skills keeps saying its all the non-verbals (trust me when I say this is not the case), while it is true that ANY VERBALS YOU USE NEED TO BE BACKED UP BY GOOD NONVERBALS, your verbals if on the right topics will open up a girl and reduce her resistances that otherwise would remain STEADY

    A simple example of this is three men come up to kiss a woman
    1) He walks up to proximity, creates tension, and once she responds, he drifts in stroking her face and kisses her
    2) He walks up to proximity, he lightly jokes about nonsense until she is giggling and responding, he pauses a moment, triangle gazes, and kisses her
    3) He walks up to proximity, he talks about kissing and how it works, SHE DOESN'T go wobbly at the knees, she replies back with an interesting take on kissing, and he laughs "now that is fascinating" and she smirks, but in a way in her mind has imagined kissing him and is comfortable, but even more comfortable cuz they didn't kiss

    You might think it is better and more impressive to her to do the first two
    But I can assure you, kissing a guy sort of is a blurry mess, something easily forgotten, she won't really remember how it occured
    However in the last instance I guarantee you, she keeps thinking about kisses and kissing you, and will permanently have a lower resistance to doing so


    Look, if you cannot SEE the difference
    It is an awareness issue, a problem with your ability to read women
    Not a fault of my explaination

    Just THINK
    You kiss her, shes feeling woosey for a bit, but then she recovers, and like an elastic band returns to the same resistance as before, maybe a bit looser
    But... if you verbalize the kiss, her brain tinkers and tinkers and tinkers, it DOES NOT snap back to where it was before, it is permanently altered

    These permanent alterations ADD UP
    Significantly reducing a woman's resistance to you
    Creating a good environment

    It is the difference between SMOTHERING her and INSPIRING her
    You are better off inspiring her creatively than penning it in


    Its sort of like how in boxing there is outside boxing, very free moving and agile, and inside boxing where you smother the opponent and batter away


    There is a fundamental difference in how it works
    Physical/inside game requires STRONG tension and POWERFUL influence
    Verbal/outside game requires good reflexes and intelligence, using HER TENSION and HER force to your advantage, creating COUNTERS

    A counter isn't the same as a power punch
    It requires positioning, anticipation, and accuracy
    While a power punch requires grounding, athleticism, and focus

    In the same way,
    Verbals are COUNTERACTIVE to her resistances, which follow certain patterns


    Those patterns are SPECIFIC, and I went over some of the basic ones in the OP


    I frankly think it is plain idiocy to be looking for more meaning in it than that
    GIRLS GIVES RESISTANCE OR IS LIKELY TO
    HAVE A RESPONSE

    Whats so difficult here?
    Are you trying to say girls do NOT PUT UP RESISTANCE in these areas?
    That they do not put up asd? That they don't girl code and disappear? That they don't put you in an average guy box?

    You know that just isn't true, so wtf are you confused about?

    Its very very simple
    If you counter resistances VERBALLY there is a CONSCIOUS REACTION in the woman, which is DIFFERENT from an unconscious one


    Guys like myself and teevs etc, can tell you that the conscious reaction is indeed DIFFERENT and creates a different RESULT
    Not trusting that is straight up bizarre from my stand point

    (shrugs)

    This thread is about a crash course in the BASIC way it works, not trying to reshape your world view, or philosophical motivations

    Comment


    • #47
      Cosy,

      OK thanks it's more understandable the way you put it there. Also in putting it this way it's still consistent with the facts that often people ignore.

      For instance, take the fact that men have a much higher sex drive than women (obviously women are able to get more physical pleasure from it, but in terms of wanting it it's much less), men want sex all the time, are happy to get it and women only want it with the best guys, and have very high particular standards with regards to who they let sleep with them.

      Now based on that fact I'm resistant to the notion that there are actually guys that make women uncomfortable during and after sex, and in particular, women should know that they can pretty much get any guy to behave in the most ideal way in the bedroom out of the fact that they're so delighted to be there.

      But indeed even though that's true, some guys are dumb, and there just needs to have been one guy in her sexual past who was a dickhead slutshamer or whatever that made her uncomfortable about sex, then she would certainly have that presumption and concern about other guys, in which case verbalizing your world view as different would be appropriate.


      The kissing example brings to mind something Justin Wayne preaches, which is after escalation to consciously acknowledge it, mention it feels nice and so on. This seems like it's a similar process going on, by putting the feeling into the conscious mind, it becomes more solid and precise in her world, rather than a "blur" like you describe.
      Certainly nonlinear and unexpected escalation is also just genuinely interesting to girls.

      So in that sense I can see what you're on about.


      That said, in my personal experience, the negative feedback from girls I get is always a subcommunication of "you're not good enough for me" or "I'm not attracted to you", not any of these other small things. So just purely from personal experience, I find it odd to have a whole post on the topic of "verbal game" and focus on something that is extremely minor in terms of its impact on the failure of a pickup.
      But Bacchus seems to insist my experience is not at all universal, that many guys get rejection out of various resistance or asd frames, or even a lack of arousal despite being attracted. I personally rarely see that, because I almost never see attraction felt towards me, but I can respect that every guy is different and has different problems and sticking points.
      Although I think it's also the case for my wings, that most of the time resistance or lack of success with a pickup is basic, she thinks he's not good enough or she doesn't feel emotionally compelled towards the guy.

      Comment


      • thecostofsuccess

        thecostofsuccess

        commented
        Editing a comment
        it might seem minor but its not
        its just counter intuitive

        personally, I never thought about applying it in a cold or random way
        I just always saw it as meeting her in her world

    • #48
      Originally posted by Tank_ View Post
      So just purely from personal experience, I find it odd to have a whole post on the topic of "verbal game" and focus on something that is extremely minor in terms of its impact on the failure of a pickup.
      Originally posted by Tank_ View Post
      But Bacchus seems to insist my experience is not at all universal, that many guys get rejection out of various resistance or asd frames, or even a lack of arousal despite being attracted. I personally rarely see that, because I almost never see attraction felt towards me, but I can respect that every guy is different and has different problems and sticking points.
      I'd suggest you go work on your sticking-points: implementing social frame and emotional stimulation to your sarges, like I suggested months ago.

      And then, once you've got the hang of those two keys, feel free to come back and re-read this thread. (It will probably make more sense once you have improved in some manner and have a better understanding of cold approach pickup.) That is, at least what someone who's actually concerned with getting better at PU would do.

      So again, instead of talking about how "odd" you find this thread, go out and work on your sticking points.
      “You know I cant hear none of that spend the night shit... that kumbaya shit”

      Comment


      • #49
        "For instance, take the fact that men have a much higher sex drive than women (obviously women are able to get more physical pleasure from it, but in terms of wanting it it's much less), men want sex all the time, are happy to get it and women only want it with the best guys, and have very high particular standards with regards to who they let sleep with them."

        How do you measure sex drive? I wouldn't say this is true for a lot of reasons... Few examples:
        - Some girls once ON turn into huge nymphs, whereas guys can cum a few times and it might be over
        - Some girls do get turned on from variety of partners etc (it's not a majority though, more like minority :P), some guys are fine with little
        - Some women are purely horny based on their cycle

        etc etc the list is endless, but you can discriminate between frequency they desire sex, the strength of desire once they do want sex, etc etc
        You're being short sighted with this claim. Just judging sex drive by 'how often someone wants sex' is no good and it's not a dynamic approach to really understand things.

        it's not 'best guys', of course it's about 'best' but it's also not about 'best' ehhhh hard to explain, but 'best' means nothing here and it's better to let go of that idea.

        I always see women's sex drive as something that she always carries with her (if she's healthy and such),

        Past experiences could open it up or close it off... have an impact on when she lets her sexuality show and all that. Moreover, her view on guys will change, and her view on guys in general is also an indicator of her 'sex drive'.. the more constants of sex drive perhaps...

        NOW, this is all out of your control, but perhaps there's a way you can have her be in another mind space, that she can somehow reach that 'sex drive' and allow it? That she can trust it's fine to show it to you, and that you are competent.

        I like Teevsters model of 'ALLOWING' and 'DESIRE'
        Those are two good markers, can she allow herself to feel and be sexual around you? It's a good start, then you can start adding in desire for you, or for sex...

        Most women need to be able to shut down their sex drive, in order to function better, not sleep around with wrong guys (the ones that end up being bad experiences --> yes a lot of reasons could make it bad and different kinds of bad), be productive, but most importantly they are skeptical of guys as a sort of 'safety mechanism'
        so they become picky, in when they do let their sexuality take over themselves...
        and once it does... once they feel safe and know a guy can handle them, won't judge them, they can become their dirty selves (if that's who they ought to be) or jjust more loving and sensual self... (if that's more her style)...

        The skepticism is something she has for her own good, and it's kind of your job to remove it. / work with it.. cause you understand she has it for a reason, to serve herself... in the big world

        On one hand I think women are not strong when they are e.g. aroused or turned on... they will let you fuck them without a condom and all that stuff
        but on the other hand, you have a woman in a bar, agreeing to go home with you, and a few mins later she is not sure anymore and will make up an excuse of why she shouldn't ... you feel your loss a guy here and the woman is shutting down her sexual desire because of a concern... a doubt...

        and it could even have been the same woman!

        How often haven't you noticed a woman showing resistance, a real concern... a display of doubt, but later ends up being in bed with you and it is a great experience and she pleasantly surprises you in bed... how sexual she is!

        Same woman! They are dynamic man and you can have a bit of an influence, on what side she will show to you, what things will boil to the surface..

        Comment


        • #50
          bump

          Comment


          • #51
            cool thread, thanks for this guys!

            on a related note, are there any "guides" regarding the latest "tech" of seduction (attraction, social / status, emotional spikes, etc) that a "newbie" could use to learn (as in, not browsing through the forum to separate the wheat from the chaff, but all in one place)? So far, I've learned most from reading YaReally's comments on Heartiste and Rational Male, but there's also a lot if noise with just a little of (very valuable) signal.

            Comment


            • thecostofsuccess

              thecostofsuccess

              commented
              Editing a comment
              girlschase seems to have a lot of it summed up pretty well, like as far as enough material to give you all the overview you need on the most modern way to look at it all
              Id recommend searching through aleks rolstads articles first if you want lots of technique

          • #52
            I agree with everything the op posted. A lot of guys are stating that verbals aren't needed but I feel they are an EXTREME SHORTCUT to convey certain things that will take forever to convey without verbals. There are also a lot of things that cannot be communicated non-verbally. You are severely limiting yourself if you choose to ignore verbal game. Most women still need that feeling of certainty that you respect them and won't hurt them emotionally if they choose to move things forward with you sexually/romantically. There are obviously a few exceptions, but why take that risk and make things 500 times more difficult.

            There is also another thing I want to add to the discussion. I disagree with the whole notion of attraction reigns supreme over everything. Attraction is very spotty and it shifts with time, but setting the right frames will have a more solid effect on a women and will garner more consistent results. I have seen so many instances where a below average guy ends up having sex with a stunning girl for being at the right place at the right time. You can't rely on her being in a advantageous head space when you approach her, its a lot more useful to assume she won't be and have the tools ready to lead her there.

            Comment

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