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Old timers can you tell me any of the archived PUAs who were SS specialists or daygame experts but with indirect structured approach?

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  • Old timers can you tell me any of the archived PUAs who were SS specialists or daygame experts but with indirect structured approach?

    There are plenty of archivers who had structured night game as that was all the rage then but what about structured/routine based daygame? And also what about good SSers are there any archives with SS based guys? There are so many to get through and so much trash posts to sort through each archive it can be hard to find.

    The assorted archives circa 98-2004/5 really are the gold standard of the pinnacle of PU knowledge however there is alot to get through to find good stuff outside of the household names of Mystery, Tyler, Style etc.

    Some of Tylers archives discuss daygame structures however they are mostly CF based and I haven't found CF very effective in the day as general MO. CF seems jarring and incongruent in the day from my experience; intrigue I think works better here though I am certainly no expert but that is what I have found.

    I have always seen how SS is 'not for clubs' and 'works best in the day' but since most of the SSers kept to some secret/private newslist I haven't been able to find any writings of active gamers from back then in relation to how it was implemented. Or maybe it's just cos majority didn't approach .

    I have recently finished in10se's archives which were the closest I found so far to SS being used practically and in daytime scenarios like cofee shops where his model was - indirect opener (G-string) -> segue to relationship talk -> sexual themes with his version of SS languaging embedded in the latter two phases.

    Is Mysex4unyc related to SS or daygame at some point? I thought I had read that it was but when I got through a couple he was saying he never used patterns and he just seemed like a brash natural with the 'get with the program' attitude but maybe that changed later on. Since there were so many archives of his I haven't been motivated to find out yet since the initial look seemed not promising.

    I know orion and kamal were active ssers the former who I believe later adopted early RSD stuff but no archives for them as they were Ross' minions and on the SS list. There are some old old tapes magical connections which I have seen in the past but I remember them to be cringey and more that the girls were only talking to them on the pretense of a camera being there and it being for a 'school project' or somesuch.

  • #2
    Originally posted by backtosquareone View Post
    Some of Tylers archives discuss daygame structures however they are mostly CF based and I haven't found CF very effective in the day as general MO. CF seems jarring and incongruent in the day from my experience; intrigue I think works better here though I am certainly no expert but that is what I have found.
    You are right. Think of C/F as being like sugar or salt: it can easily become cloying. It only takes a little too much to ruin everything. If you drop, like, one C/F tease per approach, that's plenty.

    As for SS: every seduction community SS routine I've ever come across is dumb as fuck. They're these long, corny stories... nobody's going to sit through that shit. I know I wouldn't. It's snake oil and rain dancing.

    Think of NLP like this: everyone has a way of understanding the world (aka a schema). That understanding is constructed, in part, from the input we receive in the form of receptive language (the stuff we hear). That understanding is also revealed, in part, through expressive language (the stuff we say). Every person has what linguists call an idiolect - a speech pattern particular to one person (dialect: the speech patterns of a group of people; idiolect: an individual person's speech patterns). In other words, there's a distinctly you way to say certain things.

    The idea of NLP, at least as far as seducers are concerned, is to access your target's schema (their values, their interests, their temperment, their emotional state) through language. Once accessed, you can shape that world view (including how she sees casual sex and how she sees you). Sensitivity to idiolect is key here - basically, you listen to the way she expresses herself, then serve the worldview you'd like her to espouse back to her using modes of communication custom-tailored to mesh seamlessly into her schema.

    Since NLP relies on verbal communication, it's not the best for a noisy club.

    Comment


    • #3
      Jon Sinn springs to mind? I'm sure I had one of his products on my old PC which was very structured and routiney and indirect (although pretty sure he contradicted all of his theories some years later and ditched everything resembling routine and seemed to adopt more natural game and much more 'direct'). It had a fair few infields of him indirectly approaching girls in the daytime.

      Comment


      • #4
        Sinn I would not consider one of the old guard and heard alot about him sucking and only going for not hot girls (I think that every pua who has beef with another will use that to pull them down though :P). I saw his daydame stuff though and wasn't impressed. Super boring and AFC like. You can say 'but he got laid the system works' but I think his thing is going for easy laid back targets like on college campuses rather than having a rigorous system (like mystery method) which can be tailored for all types of girls. The precise problem with my game now days is i CANT go for low hanging fruit because it doesn't exist for me any more. I played that game first ten years I milked that dry! Now I gotta learn tight game in this new snowflake era where girls get offended more than ever at the slightest thing. Sinn aint old school anyway, he just jacked MM. He even stole his name from the original sinn from the real golden era!

        Can't understand why people use names of people still in the same generation as them. 50 cent took his name from a 50 cent who died a couple years earlier. Rick Ross the fat fuck took his name from freeway Rick Ross. Are they that lacking in creativity?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DNYC View Post

          You are right. Think of C/F as being like sugar or salt: it can easily become cloying. It only takes a little too much to ruin everything. If you drop, like, one C/F tease per approach, that's plenty.

          As for SS: every seduction community SS routine I've ever come across is dumb as fuck. They're these long, corny stories... nobody's going to sit through that shit. I know I wouldn't. It's snake oil and rain dancing.

          Think of NLP like this: everyone has a way of understanding the world (aka a schema). That understanding is constructed, in part, from the input we receive in the form of receptive language (the stuff we hear). That understanding is also revealed, in part, through expressive language (the stuff we say). Every person has what linguists call an idiolect - a speech pattern particular to one person (dialect: the speech patterns of a group of people; idiolect: an individual person's speech patterns). In other words, there's a distinctly you way to say certain things.

          The idea of NLP, at least as far as seducers are concerned, is to access your target's schema (their values, their interests, their temperment, their emotional state) through language. Once accessed, you can shape that world view (including how she sees casual sex and how she sees you). Sensitivity to idiolect is key here - basically, you listen to the way she expresses herself, then serve the worldview you'd like her to espouse back to her using modes of communication custom-tailored to mesh seamlessly into her schema.

          Since NLP relies on verbal communication, it's not the best for a noisy club.
          I agree the long winded patterns have very limited application but I try to remain optimistic they have application deep into comfort. If you are that far in already it is questionable whether they are needed at all then I dunno. You need loads of compliance to be able to get away with those that's for sure! however talking with emotions, what is the main tenet of SS, is applicable at any time its just it's only those hogs of patterns SS is stereotypically known for though in the post millennium iterations Ross moved away from those.

          In10se I like his stuff precisely because he seemed to bridge the gap between the superficial MM routines and the esoteric and convoluted SS patterns. In his lrs you can read how he segues smoothly from relationships and cold reading into patterns based on themes related to women and human nature etc.

          The later SS I think got more fleshed out (though only by borrowing from the other successful PU companies of the time which Ross would hate to admit I of course) and threw out the long patterns and started off even with opinion openers, games, gimmicks, cold reading, the into pattern language from there which fills things out alot better I think.

          Anyway I just want to see if there were any actual real SS players from back in the day, to find real life case studies, and read their words. Bishop's Journal I read part way through but I heard that it was later found out to be all a work of fiction and does seem that way in terms of the unrealistic reactions he got when opening in the transcripts or he was dealing with some really past it bored housewives. It just reads like a typical romance novel with pages and pages of stupid rambling trashy romance talk and poems etc read to women. That was hard to read on paper let alone recited to a woman!

          But ye I would say in10se is the best I have found for its practical application thus far so I want to know if there is anything more, hidden out there.

          Comment


          • #6
            Not an old timer but right now. . . there are a number of seducers, on this forum who are adept at using nlp.

            The reason I say nlp, instead of speed seduction, even though most of us got our foundations for using nlp from ss. It's because, as you noticed. Lots of ss advice and patterns, just aren't all that effective infield. Too cheesy, corny or convoluted to actually produce good results. The same can be said, for quite a bit of old school technical game.

            Therefore a fair bit of tweaking, filtering through information as well as innovation. Was necessary to effectively make use of these concepts and techniques.

            Especially in this day and age. However, assuming one can filter / tweak this stuff. Then the results can be extraordinary. Because today's generation of women, have lowered attention spans and require large amounts of mental stimulation. With things like social media and swipe based dating apps, you can imagine that women have become accustomed to being stimulated in some form. Meaning that you will need to provide a certain level of stimulation too.

            At the very least to ensure, that you side step boredom, and capture their attention. And you've also got to immerse them fully. Have a woman come to this realization, as she talks to you. . . that you are someone who's far more captivating, beguiling and fascinating than whatever's on her phone.

            It's also important to engage her on an emotional level, as the two of you talk. And also direct her imagination, in a way which will facilitate the process of seduction. Doing all of this, is what's known as emotional stimulation, in the community these days. And the best way to emotionally stimulate a woman, is by making use of nlp.

            Anyway, some of the guys here who use nlp, include myself, Teevster, Gunwitch (who came up with the term emotional stimulation) The Thin Man (who sadly is no longer active) Cosy, Glow, Robin. There are probably some others I'm missing too. Most of us here, either use nlp to day game chicks.

            Or in certain night game venues. Where you have the opportunity to talk and suck her into a conversation. Like the smoking patios most nightclubs have, lounges, and etc. If you look through some of the threads here. You'll probably find what you're looking for. Regarding nlp based discussions / advice on structured day game / reports.

            Here's a bunch of links to get you started:

            https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/ge...-on-connection
            https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/da...-some-pointers
            https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/da...a-with-bacchus
            https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/ge...rk-side-gambit
            https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/ge...hus-phone-game
            https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/ge...mirror-routine
            https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/ac...ps-and-erotica
            https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/ac...-the-bookstore
            https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/ac...juicy-material
            https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/action-reports/326209-bad-boys-club

            https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/ac...039-beast-mode
            “You know I cant hear none of that spend the night shit... that kumbaya shit”

            Comment


            • #7
              Not a fan of SS stuff at all ..you cant do mm night stuff in the day time.....if you been reading as far back as 03 ( i have as 01) you know ss suffers from lack of openers..and somebody else mentioned those boring ass patterns ..and its too geared towards one girl. I can help you with a stack if you need help bro!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bacchus View Post
                ...
                Thanks will have a browse.

                EDIT: Oh that's great man! The travel example is really nice! languaging to a very down to earth topic! just the kind of thing I have been looking for. Def piqued my interest.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Grodmeister General View Post
                  Not a fan of SS stuff at all ..you cant do mm night stuff in the day time.....if you been reading as far back as 03 ( i have as 01) you know ss suffers from lack of openers..and somebody else mentioned those boring ass patterns ..and its too geared towards one girl. I can help you with a stack if you need help bro!
                  Nightgame or daygame? I presume you meant night since I have read in your posts you are not fond of daygame? Man I have more routines then I know what to do with in all my years of reading (and practicing) but I need to be able to open that is all in these fucking loud ass places.

                  How loud are the places you are dealing with? do you go to lounge type places or super loud places? I know people say go to hang out in the smokers section but I hate smoke so much I can't stand standing around those places and inhale passive smoke for any amount of time.

                  The problem with smaller quieter places though is that cos I go alone I feel so much more social pressure and so exposed in small venues which would be quieter. Ideally I like huge clubs with several floors that I can melt back into the crowd in if things go bad :P. however nearly all clubs like that have closed now days so I have to somehow make things work in these fucking hipster bars that are the only places that are popular now.

                  I know even mystery himself would not approach in places that were too loud and would only post up in quieter spots so it can't only be my 'limiting beliefs' or bad skillset.

                  If I could just open and hook I would be away.

                  I can't get out the fucken gate!

                  Comment


                  • Grodmeister General
                    Editing a comment
                    i meant you can do night stuff in day game ...gotta tweak it and gotta shorten the stack

                  • Grodmeister General
                    Editing a comment
                    yeah i go to roof top bars bro ..and i met mystery in one a few weeks back.....you need to look like youre not bored and sad when you are by yourself ..or make buds in the bar bro,then sarge around!

                • #10
                  If you really want a structure, I suggest to use Mystery Method. If you skim through the show The Pick Up Artist, there is at least 1-2 episodes for each season in which day game is one of the challenges. I recall a challenge where they had to go to the supermarket and there was also one where they were sarging at a outdoor coffee place.

                  But yeah, there are a lot of guys here who like to daygame. If you need more specific help just make a thread addressing your problem and people could chime in to help.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Grodmeister General View Post
                    Not a fan of SS stuff at all ..you cant do mm night stuff in the day time.....if you been reading as far back as 03 ( i have as 01) you know ss suffers from lack of openers..and somebody else mentioned those boring ass patterns ..and its too geared towards one girl. I can help you with a stack if you need help bro!
                    On second thought I will be happy to hear a routine outline for both daygame and nightgame if you don't mind.

                    Daygame I would say the biggest challenge is situational relevence when seguewaying from routine to routine as it seem alot more jarring to just STACK between topics like you would in night game.

                    For night game although I have alot of material (potentially though besides openers and negs A2 I have hardly anything internalised) it is still nice to hear what you use.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      I read your other post.

                      The absolute best material I know of is Captain Jack.

                      If you can get a hold of Force*21 and his talk on sexual framing, there is absolutely no better way you can spend your time.

                      Also, I know some people on the board know CJ. Tell him hello and thanks.

                      EDIT: I realized this was (perhaps far) off-topic. Take it for what it is or delete it. The reason it is off topic is that most people will probably not consider CJ speed seduction. I think it might pass as it.
                      iGNITE Mobile Dating: The Definite Guide to Meeting Girls using Tinder and Snapchat
                      PM me for a free, no strings attached copy.

                      Comment


                      • K

                        K

                        commented
                        Editing a comment
                        He does a sort of sexualized mystery method, right?

                      • COCPORN

                        COCPORN

                        commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I wouldn't describe it that way, but when you do I understand where you're coming from.

                        It is very verbal, but it is not based on creating attraction as much as it is about knocking down hurdles that inhibit people from what they are naturally inclined to do.

                    • #13
                      For instructive day game material, I recommend you go through all threads by Bacchus; in particular his field reports are full of great tech. (I personally was there for one of his daygame SDL reports.) For a quick and basic primer on NLP for day game listen to the Emotional Stimulation audio in Gunwitch SMMA. Some guys on here do really fancy things but Gun can get you 80% of the way there in an hour or so.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by K View Post
                        For instructive day game material, I recommend you go through all threads by Bacchus; in particular his field reports are full of great tech. (I personally was there for one of his daygame SDL reports.) For a quick and basic primer on NLP for day game listen to the Emotional Stimulation audio in Gunwitch SMMA. Some guys on here do really fancy things but Gun can get you 80% of the way there in an hour or so.
                        What is this smma ppl keep referring to of his?

                        Gunwitch has diversified his technology since the 'make the ho say no' days? I only knew of when he just said to project a sexual state and talk about nothing.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Originally posted by backtosquareone View Post

                          What is this smma ppl keep referring to of his?

                          Gunwitch has diversified his technology since the 'make the ho say no' days? I only knew of when he just said to project a sexual state and talk about nothing.
                          yes, his newer course has more outer game material. the material is good.

                          GWM (the original one) has got me laid that much that I'm in the top 1% of the guys I know easily. the make the ho say no quote means merely: don't eject before you get rejected (not: be an a*hole).

                          I don't see myself as a PUA btw., I still got laid a lot by sticking to fundamentals ...

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