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How To Be in the "Fuck Buddy" Category and Avoid the "Relationship" Category?

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  • How To Be in the "Fuck Buddy" Category and Avoid the "Relationship" Category?

    Hey guys. Been dating for a while now and I'm noticing a phenomenon that I can't seem to get out of.

    On the one hand, if you go too sexual and "hook up only" most girls avoid you to keep from being seen as a "slut" BUT, the effect this seems to be having is setting me up for relationship material only.

    I'm not paying for dinner, only 1 drink a piece, I'm touching them, we're talking about sex, making out often on the first date, grabbing their ass, but still women want me as a BF. It's maddening!

    Even the last date where me and the girl both established I wanted a FWB situation and she agreed to meet with me and said she was open to something casual STILL avoided me after the date and hasn't gotten back to me in messaging. Despite her shoving her tongue into my mouth at the end of our date!

    But I know from experience if I were to NOT allow the kiss, she'd see me as a prude and slow play it anyways. So, what's the play? What am I missing?

    Thanks guys.

  • #2
    From my limited experience: most people (including men, although they have a harder time to admit it) aren't satisfied long-term with fuck-buddy-relationships alone. They are perfectly fine in the short run or if they are just an addition to another, deeper connection. But most people I've met will more or less openly crave for that deeper connection/reliability in addition to the variety and excitedness of the "new". But by just going for a monogamous relationship, you (usually) set yourself up for failure as well, for it will sooner or later grow stale.

    So if you "agree" on a FB-type relationship and at least one party actually cares for the other, you'll find relationship-type-behaviour all over the place. Same the other way 'round, really.

    Problem is, you can't get a satisfying solution long-term if you stick with "relationship" or "fuckbuddy", for both are too limited. So people quite naturally switch between the two. The problem isn't that progression, it's having the distinction in your head and worrying about it.

    The obvious solution for me that I'm applying to this problem is to invite any woman I actually care for to join me in creating a unique connection that fits our actual needs and grows with us. Women in general aren't stupid, they can at least partly relate. At times this takes some convincing that I'm not bullshitting them, but since it's a very authentic thing for me and I can be very reliable and loyal, they usually start to trust me, even enjoying the idea.

    It's not exactly smooth sailing if you decide to go that route. At times it's hard work, for you can expect to be discovering all kinds of quirks and other stuff you'd usually never show on each other, and those can be hard to bear. But at least you got yourself a fighting chance.

    Jester
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    • #3
      Anyone else?

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      • #4
        Intellectually front loading sex (talk, kiss etc) is the only problem I see here.
        None of the stuff in title has anything to do with anything. I will not read here again so dont expect more answers.

        Comment


        • SargeMaximus

          SargeMaximus

          commented
          Editing a comment
          No sex talk now? Wtf? Black dragon and countless others say you HAVE to sex talk.

      • #5
        SargeMaximus

        You don't "have" to sex talk. Talking about sex is simply a way to convey competence is all things sex. You know what girls really want (secret society frame), how to go about pleasing them (sexual prize frame) and sexually arousing them, by describing some sex techniques/positions. Which triggers the sexual arousal key.

        What's missing from your OP, is actually closing these girls. Because doing all that stuff (touching their ass, making out, sex talk) without closing, makes it awfully difficult for them to see you again, because her doing so is self-admitting she's a slut (Anti Slut Defense).

        And if you are closing them on first dates, then I'm afraid you're not very good in bed...lol. Because why would a chick put someone in the fuckbuddy category (If she's hot, she has endless options of men to choose from, that could fulfill that role) if they can't even fulfill the duties of a fuckbuddy in the first place? Great sex, good emotions, zero neediness.

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        • Velasco

          Velasco

          commented
          Editing a comment
          "I’ll try it"

          great!

          "Plus I read in that pua post that even if you cum fast but if you still just make it your goal to use the girl, then she’ll like it because she just wants to please a man"

          thats bullshit. not saying you gotta last 45 minutes or your fucked, but cumming fast is unattractive in general regardless of what your goal is. But if you do cum fast. just chill out for a bit. joke around till your dick gets hard again and then go another round. In my experience, you last longer the second go around.

          "I assume it’s because they like the vibe better"

          "why all the crazy attraction?"

          ya. girls dig uncaring assholes:

          https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011...ing-assholery/

          however, GAMING girls and FUCKING girls, in the hopes of making them fuckbuddies, are two different concepts.

          Taking home a girl, post date, then proceeding to fuck her for 10 seconds flat. Cum. Then grabbing your shit and leaving her place without caring about her pleasure at all, is not gonna make her want to see you again (unless she's a LSE chick maybe idk). It'd be funny tho lol.

        • SargeMaximus

          SargeMaximus

          commented
          Editing a comment
          Lol yeah it would be funny and solve all my problems. But I can’t usua get hard after the first cum. Usually takes a few hours. I remember when I was with my fwb I used to see, I would wake up in the night with a raging boner. But by then it’s too late lol.

          Anyhow, I’ll try what skills says, also, I’m looking into getting that drug priligy, it’s supposed to help with pe

          Thanks for sticking with me and helping explain this shit tho. I think I’ll stick with the uncaring asshole thing and just work on improving my Dick performance

        • SargeMaximus

          SargeMaximus

          commented
          Editing a comment
          Btw is that your blog? I’m liking it so far, lots of insight into asshole game

      • #6
        Relationship talk seems to be the issue here. Its sounding like you're wanting a logical agreement as to the nature of your relationship before you've fucked.

        Just fuck the girl man. Lead things to where the "nature of our relationship" discussion does not come up, and have a vague dodge if its forced by her (her: "what are you looking for in a relationship?" . . you: "all kinds of things, I just roll with where life leads me and try not to overthink things, I like a more zen approach to life" and then change the subject.) Use the face to face time to fill her with good vibes and get her present and in the moment with you, navigate her to the sex location seamlessly, and fuck her well. That's it. No more than that before your dick has been inside her.

        That's where you're at in the learning process right now. Just learn to fuck girls quickly. Don't worry about setting relationship frames yet.

        Comment


        • SargeMaximus

          SargeMaximus

          commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes she forced the question. Seems most girls do this with me these days.

          As for responding to her, I’m torn because I don’t want to reward her two letter reply with more attention do I? I’m learning you take away attention if girls do what you don’t like and on top of that to only put in the same or less effort as they do.

        • Logic&Reason

          Logic&Reason

          commented
          Editing a comment
          Your goal is to dodge the discussion when the question comes up. You successfully dodged and ended the discussion. The two letter response confirmed that. Now move forward with your gameplan.

          This sounds like its an online game scenario, not face to face with a hooked girl. You can't freeze out/reward girls you haven't hooked yet, they won't care or notice at all, onto the next of the 1000 guys hitting her up where you're entirely forgotten. Pre-hook, you have to lead and put in more effort than her.

        • SargeMaximus

          SargeMaximus

          commented
          Editing a comment
          Oh I see, cool, thanks. How do you know when you’ve reached the hook point?

      • #7
        part of the reason you dont get 2nd dates cuz you do first dates in McDonalds bruh ,pick better options for hanging out with you.

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        • Grodmeister General
          Editing a comment
          i dont suscribe to that incel blue pill redpill bullshit ..what you guys dont get ..not just you but baccus and all dem..is you cant always same day lay a woman...you gotta do day 2s and day 3s ...thats where this stuff comes in...look you can be the quarterback who only throws hail mary passes (same night close) and you can get tds and win against weak D but the tougher calibre defenses you need to drive the ball down the field!

        • Grodmeister General
          Editing a comment
          Sarge youre pretty beta dude I wouldnt get your input on what is and what isnt beta..also you taking a girl to a fastfood restaurant lets women knnow you dont really get em*(a dude knows not to take a women there) it implies youre broke( why burger king) and I just told you a fucking drive thru is not a high class restaurant ..also when you pitch these dates or what not you tell the girl you are doing those things that day and (she will wanna come a long cuz its fun)

        • SargeMaximus

          SargeMaximus

          commented
          Editing a comment
          Lol, first of all, it was her suggestion to go to Mac Donald’s, second of all I was broke at the time, third of all I thought that didn’t matter, fourth of all I’m asking about what’s alpha, NOT giving advice

      • #8
        About the pe thing: I used to have a similar issue, and I've found a few things helped considerably. Now I can last for hours if I want to:

        - condoms affect it. A lot. So see where you can improve (get different brands, sizes, ...)
        - He wetness affects it. If she's not fully ready, it can be harder to contain yourself.
        - your state of mind affects it. If you can reliably tell yourself that it's no big bother and actually believe it, it gets easier.
        - conscious breathing exercises.
        - slow down while having sex every once in a while, to allow yourself to have it easier to control your breathing again. Most women I've been with actually enjoyed that as well.
        - conscious relaxation exercises for any part of your body. Your penis and the surrounding muscles will cramp up a bit right before you come. If you develop a sense for how that feels and how to relax in cramped up situations, you'll have a much easier time preventing pe.

        - there's a muscle around the area of your coccyx. Flex that one really hard and hold it for 10 secs, then consciously release it. Do that 3 times in a row, a few times a day, for a few weeks. You can do it while sitting at work, nobody will really notice if you do your breathing right at the same time. Once you get used to the general feeling, try to do it without your breathing pattern changing at all. At first you might be unable to flex only that muscle and will automatically flex a few others around it, too. But don't worry, you'll get there.

        - If the woman you're with is freaking out with lust and won't allow you to control yourself easily, you always have the option of restricting her movements forcefully (but not violently). Took me a while to get into that, but so far the women I've been with have rather thanked but hated me for that

        - if you're into these things: you might want to read up on chakra stuff. There's a lot of bullshit about these around, but some very valuable stuff too. Sure helped me a lot in overcoming my mental/emotional blockades that also contributed to the problem.

        Jester
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        • #9
          Thanks Jester.

          Today I was striking out with women again and I think itís all because of that ďcater to them by being good in bedĒ shit. Thatís the only thing thatís changed. They can feel my vibe is supplicating when I even entertain that kind of thing. Iím going back to full careless asshole.

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          • #10
            Originally posted by SargeMaximus View Post
            Thanks Jester.

            Today I was striking out with women again and I think itís all because of that ďcater to them by being good in bedĒ shit. Thatís the only thing thatís changed. They can feel my vibe is supplicating when I even entertain that kind of thing. Iím going back to full careless asshole.
            You do realize that there are more options than full-blown supplication and full-blown careless asshole, do you? It's more like a scale of social behaviour between those extremes. Any situation you'll encounter has the perfect response to that specific situation somewhere on that scale. Depending on how well you "hit" that perfect reaction the people you're with will feel connected to you and trust you.

            Now in order to "hit" it (or at least not miss it all too much), you'll need three things:
            1. eploration of the scale
            2. movability/flexibility on that scale
            3. sensitivity

            If you haven't explored part of the full scale (like someone who never stood up for himself might have), you won't be able to show that reaction when it would be fitting to the situation you're in.

            If you get stuck in the idea of "I have to be alpha/... all the time", you'll be unable to react to changing environments.

            If you lack the sensitivity/empathy to "inuit" the appropiate response, you'll have a hard time hitting your target as well.


            It's good that you're exploring possibilities on how to be, you're doing more on that than many others I know. However, do yourself a favor and don't overlook the other aspects. It's very easy to fall for the idea of "be alpha all the time" or whatever version of that you might be attracted to at any given moment.

            If that helps (it does for me), you might want to imagine a guitar tuner. Your goal is to be "in tune" with yourself and others around you. It does get easier with practice after a while, even enjoyable.

            And most importantly, to return to your original question: you will find that if you get the hang of it, women will trust you enough to experiment with the "grey scale" between relationships and fuck buddies, to find the appropiate forms that benefit you both together. And that's a repeatedly field-tested thing over the last 10 years or so.

            Jester
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            • Jester

              Jester

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              That's because those coaches use their own experience to lead you to where you need to go based on that experience and what is generally accepted as a worthwhile direction. Same as if people around here on these forums tell you to follow a certain technique with this name or that.

              What I'm teaching to anyone who is patient enough to listen is how to develop your own "technique" from scratch instead of following another.

              Let's give you an example from my main area, education. You have probably heard about Maria Montessori? She has developed this pretty groundbreaking approach to education that Millions of educators around the world are trying to copy. There's a big industry behind it fabricating "Montessori tools", and "Montessori education" and all this shit. I've heard more than one teacher tell me "I wish I could work the Montessori way but our school can't afford the proper tools!".

              The funny thing is that Maria Montessori herself was just trusting and following her intuition and improvising along the way. If you simply apply the so-called "Montessori-method" to your school, it will most probably be out of tune with the needs of that school, because it was originally developed for quite another environment, in other times.

              Now why do you think there are Millions of people who try to copy the Montessori-method (or lament that they can't for lack of money etc.), and so few who simply create their own approach to education that's actually based on the needs of everyone affected?

              It's because most people seemingly want to be "coached" into a direction someone else has already gone into. Sure I could point you to copy my path, or you could have someone else point you to their path. But whichever of those paths you chose, none of them will truly fit you.

              The only one that does is the one you pave for yourself. And the most helpful guide that helps you pave that path is your intuition, not what anyone else says, because all they can do is point you their ways, not yours.

              And here's a bonus hint: Ask yourself who might profit from you staying dependent on someone else's guidance.

              That Montessori tool factories make a shitload of money out providing the "tools needed for the method to work". Of course they have an interest in people following the story of "you need these tools or you can't do Montessori style". I'll leave it up to you to apply the question to the pickup industry. And yes, there's quite an industry behind that, too.

            • SargeMaximus

              SargeMaximus

              commented
              Editing a comment
              I understand, thank you. And thank you for not freaking out at my “help or leave” statement. You seem able to focus on what really matters.

              Have you ever read “the inner game of tennis”? This is what I had in mind when I asked you. Not for specific things to do, but a guideline on how to follow my intuition. If I were a student in your pick up school, what would your advice be? That’s all I was asking.

              I know I’m making progress but it’s so slow. I imagine it could be faster if I had answers to my questions. Some people seem to pick it up (heh) so fast.

            • Jester

              Jester

              commented
              Editing a comment
              Well, "help or leave"-statements are attempts to reduce infinite possibilities I would have to react to any situation to just two. I'm getting better at not falling for that trap these days

              Anyway, yes, the process can be very slow, frustrating or even devastating at times. What I can tell you (from my own experience and based on one most brillant model some therapist I met created by researching shamans, healers and therapists all over the world), here's what helps (to know):

              - Utter devastation is a necessary part of the process. Any lasting change of identity is preluded by at least a partial "ego death".
              - In order for you to undergo the process, you'll need an environment that allows you to relax enough. This includes financial, emotional & social stability that you can fully trust to support you whatever happens.
              - You'll also need someone or something that outlasts your "dying ego" throughout the process without being destabilized by the process. That's what therapists train to do, as do shamans, healers, ... sometimes good friends. Or nature, "god", "the universe", it doesn't matter. What does matter is whether you trust that someone or something to be stable while you allow yourself to destabilize.

              You can change without undergoing that process, but if you refuse to, upholding that change will always require conscious effort. I'm not sure if this is easily understandable to someone who hasn't experienced it, but it's like the difference between someone who says "I'm a guy who will go for a run" and someone who says "I'm a runner". The first is actively doing something, requiring effort to bring himself to do it (if only so little). The second does it because it's become part of his nature. See the difference?

              99% of what you'll experience is based on what you believe is true: about yourself, the world and how all works together. Another example, taken from my own life, last week:

              I saw this guy at some event and thought "My god this guy sure looks like a banker guy", so I just went up to him and asked whether he was. Turned out he was the boss of the bank of my town. So we talked for a bit and he ended up asking me to write up a course description for a course I was pondering to offer.

              Since I've never done that before, I asked some friends what they would charge.
              - One friend I asked told me that it would be very hard to get even a few minutes of a bosses time, and he'd try to charge A LOT.
              - Another friend told me she's getting 35€/hr and it's unadvisable to go much higher.

              I thought about it for a while and then decided to charge the guy 100€/hr. I've underwent the long process of allowing myself to believe I'm worth that (and much more), and told myself that I'll be doing the guy a favor by charging that little. He didn't blink and accepted immediately, and said he'd join the course himself. I guess he'd have accepted 150€/hr as well.

              About 6 months ago, I would never have dared to ask for that kind of money, for my old ego (=restrictive idea of myself) wouldn't have allowed that. Now after some runs through the utter devastation cycle, I've published my first book, successfully charge 100+€/hr and btw have been invited to co-run a soon-to-be-school for about 1,5 times the money you'll usually get for this job.

              I don't tell you this to brag, but to illustrate how in order to become who you could be, you'll have to allow yourself to fully undergo the seemingly paradoxical cycles of desolation many times. Most people fear going down that path, which is why they get stuck in their current state of who they are. Trying hard, but using effort & doing instead of becoming.

              Does that make sense to you?

          • #11

            dude, you're putting the cart before the horse ... until at least 90 days in , your goal is fuck her brains out as often and brutal as you desire , forget about the labels

            if she brings it up, give her a canned response .. you're open-minded

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