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Approach anxiety cure and why it is prevalent in the Pua industry

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  • #16
    No More Mister Nice Guy: The reason why TRE won't kill your AA is in my document. It doesn't kill AA because nobody knows what it really is. I have killed it (and thoroughly so) through that document.

    It is not a single thing. It is all of the things. The second you are free from AA, you are free.
    iGNITE Mobile Dating: The Definite Guide to Meeting Girls using Tinder and Snapchat
    PM me for a free, no strings attached copy.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by COCPORN View Post
      There are some things not worth talking about.

      TRE is one of those things. It will take a night of your life, and you will end up being better. Noone will contest it. Do not talk about it except from telling people to do it.

      It will kill certain aspects of AA. I killed my AA recently and completely at an age of 44 by creating a Tinder stack that is insane.
      IMO, anything that is effective is worth talking about.

      To your our second point...you are saying that you fixed your AA by developing a superior online dating approach???

      I suspect all of us would like more details on that...I know I would!
      You go to war with the women you have, not the ones you wish to have.
      -Ronald Dumsfeld

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      • Logic&Reason

        Logic&Reason

        commented
        Editing a comment
        That left me scratching my head too but I let it go. "Tinder stack" and "AA" don't really overlap in a Venn diagram. A clarification would be nice.

      • COCPORN

        COCPORN

        commented
        Editing a comment
        Nice! Logic and Reason do not necessarily overlap on a Venn diagram either.

        Send me a PM and I will share the Sledgehammer with you, my friend. It is effective to the point that you will start swiping left.

        The reason why it kills AA (for me) is that it makes it abundantly clear that I can have whatever I want because it hands you a blueprint that is not "the blueprint for the girl" but a blueprint for 40% of all girls. It also puts you in a situation where you are in control constantly.

        It doesn't only work online. It is just validated online and it is quick and easy to do. So it transfers to real life in a way not many things do, IMHO. But YMMV.

      • Logic&Reason

        Logic&Reason

        commented
        Editing a comment
        People have AA about swiping left? I'm still not following.

        AA is what happens before you approach a stranger in real life. It doesn't exist online. What definition of AA are you going by?

    • #18
      Originally posted by K
      Not a scientist, but my guess is TRE encourages serotonin production/release in the brain through either physical or psychological means, or some combination.

      Levels of brain-located serotonin are related in animals to their place in the social dominance hierarchy. More dominant males have higher levels of serotonin.

      High serotonin traits: relaxed, dominant, emotionally stable, motivationally stable, socially agreeable
      Low serotonin traits: anxious, emotionally unstable, tense, depressive, impulsive, submissive, suicidal, socially disagreeable

      If an animal loses a fight, its brain serotonin levels plummet and it loses its will to fight. If you then artificially increase its serotonin, it becomes ready to fight again. In monkeys, if you increase a beta monkey's serotonin (basically by giving them prozac) the females notice and start paying more attention to him. The males notice after the females.

      Some ways to increase serotonin without drugs include exercise, massage, being in direct sunlight, and thinking happy thoughts. TRE seems related to the first two. We know that the physical affects the mental and vice versa. Perhaps the muscular relaxation caused by TRE tricks the brain into assuming that you should be relaxed in general, i.e. because you're dominant and not under threat socially or physically, and encourages the brain to generate serotonin. Or it might go deeper than that, but I think this accounts for at least part of the effect.
      Yeah, this makes more sense to me too. More akin to yoga, stretching, meditation type activities, as opposed to something that indicates some traumatic history.

      However, I do want to note that there IS a fair bit of anecdotal evidence that traumatic events can sometimes be “held in the body’” as muscle tension.

      I’ve heard firsthand from my Alexander Technique teacher that a couple of her students spontaneously recalled traumatic events (e.g. physical or sexual abuse) when they focused on releasing habitual muscle tension that was causing chronic, physical pain. I’ve also read several similar accounts...from massage therapists and other professions that focus on the muscles. And there are also reports of TRE helping with PTSD.

      But to repeat what I said in an earlier post....calling them TENSION Release Exercises might be a lot more accurate. Just because you can make your muscles tremble doesn’t mean that you have some horrible past trauma that makes is hard to approach unfamiliar women.
      You go to war with the women you have, not the ones you wish to have.
      -Ronald Dumsfeld

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      • COCPORN

        COCPORN

        commented
        Editing a comment
        People talk and talk about TRE. They do not do it, even if in a single hour they could be different people.

        After doing TRE the first time, I started walking differently through my living room. I had lived there for 3 years. I had been subconsciously avoiding the bookshelf in the middle in the room, walking around it in an arc. Why, you ask?

        Because "The Ring" DVD was there. It scared the fuck out of me when I saw it the first time, and for THREE YEARS I was avoiding that part of the room. Unconsciously.

        It is fully OK to not "believe" in TRE. Just fucking do it and stop yapping with the lips until you have.

        Instead of answering to this post: JUST DO IT. It will take you an hour.

        Do not discuss TRE until you have done it. And when you have done it, you will see there is no reason to.

      • No More Mr Nice Guy
        Editing a comment
        I think if you re-read our comments, you will realize that both L&R and I have done TRE.

        However, it sounds like your results were much more dramatic than ours. As to why that is...well, that’s an interesting question.

      • Logic&Reason

        Logic&Reason

        commented
        Editing a comment
        Yeah I first did TRE in 2009, and have done it off and on since. Recently I've picked back up quite a bit as I've taken on a morning walk/stretch/TRE/meditate routine. My body now asks for it, and goes into the tremors almost effortlessly.

        I feel good afterwards but it hasn't been the life changing experience others describe. Perhaps for more extreme cases it has a more extreme impact? My anxiety is low in general, I've never battled stuff like anxiety around bookshelves because The Ring DVDs were on it.

        This is good stuff though, you sound like a hardcase who put in an lot of effort to overcame a lot. You're a great resource for those guys on the forum and indeed will have more valuable input for these guys. Given this and your other post, I'll lay back on replying to hardcases about inner game stuff.

    • #19
      Get super horny and raise your testosterone....


      Testosterone makes you:

      1.- be more decisive

      2.- more horny

      3.- take more risk...

      4.- feell happier


      sound like black guys...


      You won't see many black guys with aa... cause they are high t


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      • #20
        Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
        Get super horny and raise your testosterone....


        Testosterone makes you:

        1.- be more decisive

        2.- more horny

        3.- take more risk...

        4.- feell happier


        sound like black guys...


        You won't see many black guys with aa... cause they are high t
        if this is true then why doesn't nofap work for AA?

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        • #21
          General note, but IME I've found developing the balls to approach despite AA to be the much more achievable and useful goal than trying to make AA go away.

          In general, you want to develop the balls to face your fears, to develop courage. Courage can't exist without fear. Courage is a very useful life skill: to be able to take the correct action despite any fears or other negative emotions you may be feeling. "I'm terrified of talking to this girl, but I'm going to go fucking do it anyway cause I've got big fucking balls."

          Of course the reduction of negative emotion is great to work on too, much of which comes down to inner game, mindfulness of one's thought patterns, and putting in effort to reshape thought patterns, creating new experiences for yourself that positively reinforce new beliefs. But courage is also essential in getting the most out of life. All negative emotion can't be defeated unless you've got Buddha-level inner game, and we're left with courage to handle the rest.

          Side note, I'd guess that PU artists suffer AA more than others because others never even bother, they only go with warm social leads their whole lives. Its not that those drawn to PU are deficient, its they they're the only ones who ever address this issue in life.
          Last edited by Logic&Reason; 3 weeks ago. Reason: Cutting anything potentially inflammatory or unnecessary. . . wanting to get in this habit.

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          • #22
            the cure to approach anxiety is to approach. i get anxious the first couple times of the day i do am approach. after three or four i’m good.

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            • #23
              I would say whoever coined the term AA back in the day was not correct atleast for some people. To me anxiety is very unpleasant feeling, when something bad happens in your life for example, you worry a lot about it etc. Drugs like Xanax are used to calm anxious people.
              I never felt that nasty emotion even when I couldn't approach a single women. I was feeling normal not anxious but still couldn't approach. I would just make excuses, or would just freeze in the last moment and not do it etc.
              So I would term it AF as approach fear. You don't have to feel anxious, but you still can't do something because you are afraid.

              Regardless, exposure therapy definitely is the way to go. Little courage is required at the begining to even start doing anything, but later once there is no fear you can just approach at will. I consider AF as curable completely
              The only way fear will start creeping back is if you don't approach for weeks / months. At which point you can just do the exposure therapy again for couple of days, and problem solved

              Once you have dealt with this problem, momentum is strong for life, atleast for me. For example, even if you don't approach for months for whatever reason, only a little bit of approaching, a few days will do a trick. When I started, it took a lot more then that to get rid of the fear ( probably months and hundreds of approaches )

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              • #24
                Originally posted by SexualHero View Post
                I would say whoever coined the term AA back in the day was not correct atleast for some people. To me anxiety is very unpleasant feeling, when something bad happens in your life for example, you worry a lot about it etc. Drugs like Xanax are used to calm anxious people.
                I never felt that nasty emotion even when I couldn't approach a single women. I was feeling normal not anxious but still couldn't approach. I would just make excuses, or would just freeze in the last moment and not do it etc.
                So I would term it AF as approach fear. You don't have to feel anxious, but you still can't do something because you are afraid.
                "I never felt it, so it isn't real."

                Originally posted by SexualHero View Post
                Regardless, exposure therapy definitely is the way to go. Little courage is required at the begining to even start doing anything, but later once there is no fear you can just approach at will. I consider AF as curable completely
                The only way fear will start creeping back is if you don't approach for weeks / months. At which point you can just do the exposure therapy again for couple of days, and problem solved
                "Just do what you do not like to do. It will make things better."

                Exposure will make a lot of things worse.

                Originally posted by SexualHero View Post
                Once you have dealt with this problem, momentum is strong for life, atleast for me. For example, even if you don't approach for months for whatever reason, only a little bit of approaching, a few days will do a trick. When I started, it took a lot more then that to get rid of the fear ( probably months and hundreds of approaches )
                At least for you.

                Dude, I fucking love you. I can see where you are coming from and what you are trying to do. But telling people that "It's not a big deal" doesn't make it "not a big deal".

                I can vividly remember almost puking on the street being tasked with asking a woman for a good place to buy clothes for my frame. This was way-way-way-back-when I was probably at 100+ (in lays). I still could not talk to women sober on the street.

                Then I went through a period where I serioustly grinded opening every day. And I did well. And I got burned out on it. Even if I did well, it was HELL. It landed me with a whole month missed from work.

                Anxiety for opening is a real thing, and I've felt physically ill by a friend even suggesting it. This is after I just banged someone the night before. It runs through the whole body.

                I am not saying that it cannot be fixed. Exposure might fix it, but it is not a be-all-end-all. On the contrary. You need to understand where you are in the process.

                Right now, I think I can probably talk to anyone and it will be fine. But I remember where I came from. And advice, as well meant as it might be, might be bad for anyone actually struggling with this.

                AA is REAL.

                I have never seen a quick fix. This might be good news or it might be bad news.

                You can fix it, but you probably cannot fix it without also fixing huge things about yourself in the process.
                iGNITE Mobile Dating: The Definite Guide to Meeting Girls using Tinder and Snapchat
                PM me for a free, no strings attached copy.

                Comment


                • #25
                  Pulled out of comments so it doesn’t get lost...

                  COCPORN
                  commented 7 hours ago

                  Nice! Logic and Reason do not necessarily overlap on a Venn diagram either.

                  Send me a PM and I will share the Sledgehammer with you, my friend. It is effective to the point that you will start swiping left.

                  The reason why it kills AA (for me) is that it makes it abundantly clear that I can have whatever I want because it hands you a blueprint that is not "the blueprint for the girl" but a blueprint for 40% of all girls. It also puts you in a situation where you are in control constantly.

                  It doesn't only work online. It is just validated online and it is quick and easy to do. So it transfers to real life in a way not many things do, IMHO. But YMMV

                  ===================

                  Thanks for privately sharing the Sledghammer technique with me as well...very interesting...you may be on to something there.

                  I think I had a SLIGHT reduction in AA after I started having some success online. Increased confidence and realizing that rejection was not the end of the world, I guess. But certainly not a “cure”...at least in my case.

                  But perhaps massive success online translates to massive reduction in AA in your case.
                  Last edited by No More Mr Nice Guy; 3 weeks ago. Reason: removed dead image link
                  You go to war with the women you have, not the ones you wish to have.
                  -Ronald Dumsfeld

                  Comment


                  • #26
                    Originally posted by COCPORN View Post

                    Dude, I fucking love you. I can see where you are coming from and what you are trying to do. But telling people that "It's not a big deal" doesn't make it "not a big deal".
                    I didn't say that its not a big deal. I said I was struggling with it for months when I started approaching, I would say if you struggle with something for months it is a big deal, wouldn't you agree ?

                    Originally posted by COCPORN View Post
                    I can vividly remember almost puking on the street being tasked with asking a woman for a good place to buy clothes for my frame. This was way-way-way-back-when I was probably at 100+ (in lays). I still could not talk to women sober on the street.
                    That makes perfect sense to me. Because AA is caused by fear, not by lack of confidence or even success with women. If talking to women sober on the street is not something you did regularly and it was outside of your comfort zone, it makes sense you would have AA, regardless of your lay count.

                    Originally posted by COCPORN View Post
                    Then I went through a period where I serioustly grinded opening every day. And I did well. And I got burned out on it. Even if I did well, it was HELL. It landed me with a whole month missed from work.
                    So exposure therapy helped you ?

                    Originally posted by COCPORN View Post
                    Anxiety for opening is a real thing, and I've felt physically ill by a friend even suggesting it. This is after I just banged someone the night before. It runs through the whole body.
                    Ok, I am just saying that there are guys who don't feel anxiety even when they can't approach women, like me.
                    I would hypothesise that even in your case and in case of people like you, that anxiety is not the reason you couldn't approach, but fear. If you can overcome the fear, then you can approach, even if you are feeling anxious. Anxiety is just unpleasant feeling, not something which can stop you from doing something. Fear can. Fear and anxiety are not interchangeable terms. And besides what you were feeling could have been fear not anxiety. Anxiety is vague sense of apprehension and feeling unwell, worrying too much about something etc. It usually connected to anxiety disorders. Fear is normal response to perceived known immediate threat. Thats why term AA irks me, its really not anxiety which is the problem, but fear.

                    Originally posted by COCPORN View Post
                    I have never seen a quick fix. This might be good news or it might be bad news.
                    Approach constantly for months is not a quick fix.

                    Originally posted by COCPORN View Post
                    You can fix it, but you probably cannot fix it without also fixing huge things about yourself in the process.
                    Thats not true. All you have to do to get rid of the fear is to make sure activity you are afraid off becomes part of your comfort zone. And you do that by doing that activity on regular basis.

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