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The different schools of seduction part 2....

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  • The different schools of seduction part 2....

    Please check part 1 which i wrote in 2013, before this one....

    Disclaimer.- This is my opinion based on me and my experiences and things i see in the community, It is a reflection on Jack post and the bachaus podcast and the contrast of both spectrums of the game.


    So you have the I want a predictable outcome if i do or convey verbally certain things, emotions and then you have this is what you get guys, the direct guys or the this is who i am guys (vulnerability/honesty guys)..... Now i can find guys that suck at the 3 approaches and i can find guys that are good at the 3 approaches, obviously I will not mention the 3 guys that suck at the 3 approaches (but if you hang around in forums for more than 2 minutes is obvious who they are).


    The screeners, that get laid a lot (usually better looking and good fundamentals and abundance guys, can pull this off, that have rotations)... With this approach you will tend to burn out a bit, notice how a lot of this guys eventually get tired and leave the game and or settle down. Good, example was Paul Janka, gll, 60 yoc, sleazy. I personally think this is not working as well as it was after millennials, but still works....


    The other burn less leads more predictable outcome but gets good results as well...(this is based on psychology principles, influence and field tested outcomes that gives the highest odds in certain situations). Mm, speed seduction now what we call in seadfast second generation. With these approaches as you notice in the podcast you will eventually internalize and move to more of a natural game, some will never do this and stay there forever (ross Jeffreys, mystery).... Some argue you need to go through this stage (logic and reasoning), some argue you don't (me and jeff rsd).

    Then you have the dudes that are extremely this is who i am, this are my believes and extreme vulnerability and honesty. Best example is Jester RIP.- The thing is with this approach you will pass on a lot of lays as you are running less numbers vs the blow me in blow me out, game, your lay counts will be wayyyy lower,.., but, but, but when you find that girl she will totally love you hard core. People were wondering why i like jester, is cause i understood what he was doing which is just a Mark Manson type of vulnerability game. Notice that every girl Jester had fell really hard for him but his lay count was very low. This approach is good but really boring for seducers and you will also leave a lot of lays in the table. I keep in contact with jester via pm, he has a new girl that fell in love with him. A more popular guy that does this is Mark Manson and another one is Derek from rsd…. (from time to time I engage in this, usually post break up periods)


    I really encourage people to try and field test all approaches to see if it gets you the results you want or are seeking (i have tried them all with decent results)


    Now here is what I HAVE FOUND for me to be the most enjoyable approach which is actually a combination of the 3. How that works is that you will put 100% your personality and yourself out there on the line as who you truly are (notice for example who i am in the forums, in my videos, and in real life is totally the same)..... Now, what you will do is you need to employ, understand and be aware of the moves/nuances/behavior/subcomunications, social dynamics etc... based on field experiences and testing that have yield YOU the highest odds/statistics (note.- sometimes you can experiment with things you read or work for someone else and add to your stuff and modify here and there aka get out of your comfort zone.) this is not only limited to behaviors, and things you constantly do or repeat that give you high odds but expand all the way to fashion, stereotyping and or physical looks, pics, walks, dances, texts etc....


    ^ you will also screen the girls in or out based on your particular life-stage, horniness, type,goals,mating strategy etc.... So In my experience with this strategy the results will be you will meet 5 girls 3 will totally be repulse by you, 1 like you somewhat, and 1 will totally fall for you super hard...


    ^ this for me has been the most enjoyable approach....And i believe is were most guys end up anyways...



    Edit.- link for part 1 down, having issues with my blog....
    Last edited by Skills360; 03-31-2019, 05:34 PM.

  • #2
    I'm definitely a combination of the first two: screener and the highest statstics guy

    in that I pretty much only approach girls that are my type physically (not including girls that I approach at the beginning when I'm just being social) so maybe I'll only approach 3 girls the whole night (I'm not a complete screener in that, I don't wait for approach invites before approaching, or go for girls that are just dancing sexy like they came out to get fucked tonight).

    But I think highest statistics guy is at odds with extremely vulnerable honest guy

    because whenever I'm being "honest" about something, I'm only doing so when I know that in the situation, it will give me the highest odds.

    So I don't think I'm really being "honest". because its calculated honesty.

    good example of this is JP in this video at 7:35 - 8:30

    Is he really just being an "honest/vulnerable" dude with her? Or does he know full well that doing all this shit will yield the highest percentage move, to move him closer to his goal (SNL) (future projection, make her feel like he's not just gonna dump her right after he fucks her, bringing up sex, making her horny)? my take, is that its the latter. which is who I am. and therefore makes it impossible to be the third type if you're the highest statistics guy.
     

    Comment


    • #3
      uff! that video is cringe for me, that jp guy overgames too much i do no like his game...( i know you do, but notice he over games and dancing monkey too much, that girl was into him already)

      here is a better one:



      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah besides RSDMax, JP's my favorite seducer. Where do you think he over games? just curious

        about her "already being in to him"

        yeah true the clip on YouTube starts with her already liking him, but it doesn't show the beginning of the interaction (JP had previously day gamed these two girls and number closed them. Then invited them out (and Todd to wing him) on a date 2 days later) where he built attraction with her (initially she was like, "ok this guy's cute lets see where it goes" then as you can see, he's got her horny as fuck all over him) (full infield's in The System).

        And yeah I like that clip you posted. Roissy did a good breakdown of it a couple years ago:

        https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012...lose-analysis/

        Comment


        • Velasco

          Velasco

          commented
          Editing a comment
          lol just noticed that 'short guy' contrast to 'tall guy' thing he does at 2:55

          I do the same shit (I'm 6 ft tall) because I know girls don't really like guys shorter than them (sorry!). always gets a good reaction.

      • #5
        For me game is like... it should become (eventually) just an expression of who you are
        I mean...
        For me, who are the girls I'm best with?
        In the start it was narcissistic super pretty types
        Then it was super sexual types
        Then it was any type that wasnt driven by strict ideals or on their period etc
        And lastly, now its just "calm" girls who are willing to talk (girls who arent rushing and tense) which includes MOST of the girls I like

        So, at the start I applied game that was super bold, heavily touchy, very minimalistic, but confident (fuckable)
        Then I applied game that was tension based non verbal, so the most sensual girls picked up on it best
        Then I used tension WITH verbals, so the verbals were SOLD by tension being applied with them, and that was the highest ratio of pulls I ever got, almost 1 to 1 with a NOTEABLE EXCEPTION that it sucked with the girls I wanted... it repelled them even... such are human beings that they hate most what they hate in themselves most, so it was kinda that which turned me off it a bit
        Then lastly I developed self expression, annnnd at the moment I can only do it while calm so its limited to calm chicks, but the style of it is very nice, very honest, and I am not truly using any game to my knowledge

        Self expression stuff is what I think you are actually driving at with the "parts of all three" kinda game
        Its the game where you dont measure on numbers of girls, or what guys think, but where you apply tension and verbals, ENOUGH that girls buy into you, and from there you act touchy and minimalistic and bold

        Point being, the type of girls you best pull says a lot about your game and its style. And an expression of yourself should target the girls you most want, while being as you as it can be, because AS YOU you would naturally change yourself to attract the girls you want (otherwise you are stubborn)

        So yeah... being YOU, means to CHANGE, to get the girls you want, and until you realise what that is, your style might even change.
        Until finally you get a style that both gets your girls and is comfortable to you.

        Side note on my main take aways from each:
        I think minimalistic game you wanna use your looks a bit to get leverage with the girl, or social status or social proofing (uniforms, jobs, girls around you, skills)
        Then for sexual game, certainly put out the vibes, and back em up with words to unhook resistances
        Then to not repell girls be VERY VERY sharp on knowing THEIR OWN FLAWS and how that will reflect on attacking "yours", use that info WISELY
        Then lastly get right in yourself I guess so its an expression, not a ploy

        All in all be stylish when you have to, appear successful or statused up somehow when necessary,
        Unhook resistances and give off vibes
        Be wise about what you know about girls flaws and projection (and your own nonsense)
        And express yourself with the only limiter being change a bit to appeal to your type

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by thecostofsuccess View Post
          .
          So, at the start I applied game that was super bold, heavily touchy, very minimalistic, but confident (fuckable)
          Then I applied game that was tension based non verbal, so the most sensual girls picked up on it best
          Then I used tension WITH verbals, so the verbals were SOLD by tension being applied with them, and that was the highest ratio of pulls I ever got, almost 1 to 1 with a NOTEABLE EXCEPTION that it sucked with the girls I wanted... it repelled them even... such are human beings that they hate most what they hate in themselves most, so it was kinda that which turned me off it a bit
          Then lastly I developed self expression, annnnd at the moment I can only do it while calm so its limited to calm chicks, but the style of it is very nice, very honest, and I am not truly using any game to my knowledge

          .
          Well i had similar but the exception is that the girls i wanted, if i did not do "predictable % outcome stuff, such as second gen verbal" , then i would not get them, and that would turn me off more, cause i felt if i would have done a, b, c i would have fucked her, but i did not fuck her cause i did not do the predictable a,b,c.....

          so it was actually the opposite of you if with the girls i wanted i would do for example second gen. i would get them.... But it bother my soul that i had to do that shit to get them..... Now i could not keep those girls...

          so i did not repeled them like your experience, i got them, i repelled them after when the true me came out.... That is why i stop kind of doing it, i more now incorporate here and there if i have to...

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by Skills360 View Post

            Well i had similar but the exception is that the girls i wanted, if i did not do "predictable % outcome stuff, such as second gen verbal" , then i would not get them, and that would turn me off more, cause i felt if i would have done a, b, c i would have fucked her, but i did not fuck her cause i did not do the predictable a,b,c.....

            so it was actually the opposite of you if with the girls i wanted i would do for example second gen. i would get them.... But it bother my soul that i had to do that shit to get them..... Now i could not keep those girls...

            so i did not repeled them like your experience, i got them, i repelled them after when the true me came out.... That is why i stop kind of doing it, i more now incorporate here and there if i have to...
            Haha xD
            Ain't that the truth
            Never underestimate the itch a girl has to judge you

            I don't by any means want to imply "wear rose colored glasses bro and express yourself if you want her"

            I mean it like bruce lee,
            You become formless, shapeless, like water. Authentic motion. Expression.


            So more defined I mean
            In a situation where a girl is wondering if she'd be seen as slutty if xyz
            You might just touch her elbow and say "its ok, no need to feel too tense" knowing that later you might elaborate if needed
            Or if a girl is wondering if you are going to pounce on her if you get alone
            Maybe you just slow down, and give her a goofy face, and say "you look so serious xD"
            Or if a girl is thinking "gawd, yet another one of THESE FN guys"
            You might be like "hey im lookin for someone shes about yay high, your color hair, similar eyes, but has a huge ass smile"
            Rather than shoot out a routine (get her mind off it rather than worry about her judgements)

            Formless in the sense that you don't chase the technique or right verbal for the situation
            You just prep it so it can come up authentically, while addressing her immediate mood etc.


            Also the girls I want are a specific type of girl
            Not the bitchiest chick who most guys dick wants
            I generally am after truly badass women who are very cool (they are generally passed over for more obvious choices so find certain things irritating like obvious gaming)

            They tend to dislike things being SUDDEN, so if you chase the technique they think you are trying to make them into some "shallow pursuit" and it offends them
            But if you just tenderize the subjects, she appreciates and enjoys it, and later when you expand on it shes like "I knew thats why I picked you"


            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by thecostofsuccess View Post

              They tend to dislike things being SUDDEN, so if you chase the technique they think you are trying to make them into some "shallow pursuit" and it offends them
              But if you just tenderize the subjects, she appreciates and enjoys it, and later when you expand on it shes like "I knew thats why I picked you"

              Yeah^ this is my point, that is the sweet spot i am talking about.... But involves the 3 approaches mix together in my experience that i refer in the op, and yes they make the more enjoyable girls/connection sometimes a bit too heavy for my taste (they will fall hard)....

              Comment


              • thecostofsuccess

                thecostofsuccess

                commented
                Editing a comment
                yeah, they will
                so then you balance in a bit more talking about the relationship and your limits so they dont put more in than they'll get back out

                mostly girls get hurt when they put their "hopes" in one basket for a non-idiot guy
                you just get them to maintain some degree of their normal ability to cope going on
                and don't allow her to be like "I neeeeeed to put my hope in you"

                Unless of course you intend to stay with her,
                In either case you should make it clear to her tho imo, to avoid screwing with her too much


                An example,
                You ask about what happened previously, she says all dudes were dicks
                You DON'T say I'm the exception
                You say "well, I think girls are always looking for someone they can put their hopes in, but I think it is dangerous, because no one is perfect"
                Go into asking her about what she wants a relationship for (loneliness? just having a complete life? fun? interest? to get to know more about life n people?)

                And then let her know that you are looking for something you arent sure if she can provide and to not put her hopes in you, but there are certain ways she CAN enjoy you if she wishes to go on. And explain further that deep down everyone is really kind of "hard" to get along with when it comes to their BIG wants, and permenent relationships require those to match, and to never just assume they match cuz you get along.

                And yeah in this way you keep explaining until she understands not to put all her hopes in you IF you arent sure where it goes.


                Over promising does suck. Its better not to do it. And girls are prone to "wanting a rest for their brain" so, keeping them STILL alert, might piss them off, but it can save them time and heartache if you guys actually dont match up.
                You make your case for wat you want, but you dont promise anything you probably wont be able to do.


                You be understanding tho of the need, but its about discipline, keeping her self disciplined
                Not cuz its right that girls be in that state, it isnt
                But so they just dont get smashed by nonsense



                So topics like
                - girls putting all hopes somewhere
                - the big wants
                - past stuff and her view of the future, what she wants versus what is gettable right now (not the same thing)
                - burdens and how she manages her own responsibilities and emotions, up until now and how she looks to improve it in the future too
                - probe for what she does if this doesnt work out

                Its tough stuff to do
                Knowing you arent the whole answer sucks
                But that extra honesty helps the girl be herself at the end of it, not relying on you to get her discipline back etc
                Shes still in possession of it

              • Skills360

                Skills360

                commented
                Editing a comment
                cosy a lot of what you described i do, exactly and even more than that... too the point were i tell them i do not want to repeat this cause it kills a bit of the joy of when we are together.... The thing is all this type of talk make them fall harder, or they just auto reject.....

              • thecostofsuccess

                thecostofsuccess

                commented
                Editing a comment
                its probably other signals you are using amping up the "falling hard" part then
                like puppy dog faces
                soppy puppydog like emotions
                talking in a state of mutual concern with each other
                pressing points

                basically, you need to avoid drawing out, or dragging in, emotions into the relationship or out of her pathos.

                If you do all the right things but underneath it, evoke too much emotions, it sends a mixed signal


                I GET that doing less evoking of emotion RISKS a blow out
                but thats why you learn to balance in enough of it, and bring up concerns when a girl is somehow pushing for too much of it

                and yes... it does suck the fun out
                I agree.


                My fix?
                Well Im more disciplined, help her to be that way, annnd Im a lil sassier or more combattive on some things
                expecting lil deciets and little ploys to be at play
                not big things, but lil things that are significant enough to spot

                There is no perfect approach to it that I yet know of...
                But I know its half decent what you are doing IF you clean up the emotional mixed signals

            • #9
              How do you incorporate Influence into your game successfully? Whenever I try it comes off too incongruent but I want to improve my game.

              Comment


              • #10
                the website is back up here is part 1

                Comment


                • #11
                  There are some good and interesting ideas in this thread. And this topic has raised a few questions. So I thought I'd chime in.

                  On the differences between different styles of game. Screening. Technical game. Etc. I agree with L&R that the process of internalizing technical game, does usually involve a period of miscalibration and conscious correction. Similar to what everyone goes through when sharpening their fundamentals like posture and eye contact.

                  Verbal stacks are valuable learning tools for technical game. As you get to see and use examples, of various influence techniques, and notice the effects as you try them out infield. But they also bring on more possibilities of miscalibration since every situation is slightly different. And often requires more adaptation, or a situation could require a different set of techniques entirely. Noticing these things are pretty difficult to do when most of your focus is on repeating a previously memorized stack. These are the main reasons why internalizing the tech is should be the goal, if you decide to take the technical route.

                  Sarge asked how to incorporate influence into one's game successfully. Here's how I did it. . .

                  It's crucial that your fundamentals and vibe, are already at a pretty high-level before you even try. Because while a period of incongruence isn't a surprising part of this process. That period will go on much longer, if you haven't handled these things. Because when you can present yourself in an attractive manner. The effectiveness of any technique you use is multiplied. So that when you're trying out verbal stacks or whatever, your fundamentals will help you account for any miscalibrations or incongruence as you use these techniques. Like a safety net. Moving forward its important to analyse each example you come across. Even as you use them infield.

                  To break down what you read in a practical thread or report into smaller components. You can ask questions to further your own understanding of the techniques and strategies that make up a gambit or routine. Start small. Then with these underlying components. You start practicing them. Practice using them out loud in a variety of situations. You could use your new knowledge of the techniques to write your own stacks. Create gambits and routines that you feel more comfortable with.

                  Or try and start weaving these techniques seamlessly into various moments infield. Over and over and over again.

                  At some point most of your gambits and routines, will be spontaneous things you end up saying to women infield. Off the top of your head. By taking your knowledge of where she's at on a social frame level, emotionally and sexually. And certain techniques and applying them right then and there. . . infield. Free-styling is a necessary next step.

                  In these situations you rely on your knowledge of these techniques. What they do. Their effects on women. And when to use them. This is known as conscious competence. Now skills360 was talking about one of the effects of conscious competence while using certain tech. Which is a nasty feeling of having to say or do certain things to succeed in certain situations. And Cosy was talking about the concept of self expression while seducing women.

                  I would argue that when you become unconsciously competent at using certain techniques. Then you are in some ways, just expressing yourself.

                  Think about it. You're having a conversation with a woman, and you convey your beliefs about discretion, sexual liberation, and shamelessness for example. Or an exciting adventure you took part in last summer which gave you the opportunity to cut loose. Or maybe even something interesting about female orgasms that you've figured out from a previous experience. Yes these are all examples of technical game. But it's still just talking and self expression.

                  Public speakers or people in the political game know how to talk and weave conversations towards their beliefs or experiences in smooth and persuasive ways. It's a skill they have internalized. And if you've internalized tech to a point of unconscious competence, then this is a baseline for you. Just like how we internalize attractive behaviors. And develop tight fundamentals. So you can talk about these things without difficulty. In your own ways.

                  Using adaptations of techniques, and strategies that you've practiced so much that they're as natural as breathing. You don't think about these things while you do it.

                  Even though you are doing xyz in the technical sense. . . you don't feel like you're doing anything. Just like you don't feel like you're doing much of anything. When you're standing still with good posture. When I write reports these days, I actually have to sit for a while and focus. To try and remember which techniques I used.

                  From my perspective I was just talking to her and listening to what she says. Then she got emotionally stimulated and horny. Before I start a through analysis of the interaction, things are just a blur from open to lay. Because in each moment using a technique it's just an automatic response. Or the articulation of a thought.

                  And this is how you incorporate influence into your game successfully.

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