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Struggling With English Girls (Attn: Logic & Reason, Bacchus, Teevs, Skills)

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  • Struggling With English Girls (Attn: Logic & Reason, Bacchus, Teevs, Skills)

    With the forum coming to an end, I thought I would finally write about an issue that I have struggled with ever since I took up daygame as a hobby. As someone born in London, I would have thought that English girls would have been my easiest targets, but that has never materialised. My daygame strategy consists of Bacchus's social frame and early structure, Ross Jeffries's Speed Seduction as mid-game, and Teevster's sex talk as sexual arousal, with Gunwitch's SMMA as the overarching strategy. Since I started daygaming several years ago, I have completed thousands of approaches and several clear patterns started to emerge a few years in. My target choice has always been hot white girls.

    Of those girls, I have attained hundreds of numbers and several SDL's. All of the SDL's were European girls and 80% of those numbers were also European girls. The number of English girls that have given me their number has been less than 5%, perhaps even less. Of those numbers, European girls text normally like they're interested, whilst English girls play super aloof.

    Out of those numbers, I have managed over 100 Day 2's, none of which have been English girls.

    Initially, I thought that I was the only one failing with English girls, but then having looked at countless day game videos filmed in London, the vast majority of successful videos consisted of European girls. So I was clearly not alone.

    Interestingly enough, the English girls that I have fucked were from online and all of the girls I have ever fucked from night game were English girls.

    Several hypotheses have emerged to perhaps explain this phenomenon.

    English girls in general respond poorly to daytime advances. Whilst, I've managed to reach the hook stage and instadates with a few of them, their immediate response to being stopped in the daytime is one of weirdness, which has been difficult to overcome. English girls also have established social circles and seemingly have a set way of meeting men (online or clubs) and are unwilling to deviate from that. Daygame is also a very popular practice amongst boys in London starting from secondary school (14-16 years), so maybe English girls have much stronger bitch shields and are more skilled in averting male attention in the day time.

    Contrastingly, the European girls I have succeeded with have almost always been new (within last 7 years) to the country and are more excited to meet a man in the day time, or even meet a man in general. Maybe European girls think of me as higher status due to the way I speak and the things I say, and the fact that I'm a native, so they respond more positively.

    English girls respond poorly to my type of game, with many usually laughing and calling me out when I speak using emotional language. This could be down to the masculinity of English females, as they find it gay that I speak in this way. I have been called out and laughed at quite a number of times. On the other hand, it seems like English girls prefer humour game and are more fond of banter. One of my friend has great results with English girls, and his game is pure cocky and funny. Interestingly, he struggles with European girls. English girls view me as neutral value or worse lower value, and the game I use clearly doesn't increase my value.

    I have been trying to make sense of this for a few years now, but my continued results only further compound these theories that I have.

    I recently heard a podcast where Chase was saying that you can specialise in a certain type of game which attracts a subset of women, but it may not be suitable for another set. It seems like my game is suitable to European women as they are still relatively feminine so they respond well to emotional language, whilst also feeling that I am of high value as I am a native. This makes it easy for me to bring them into my world. English are more masculine so they don't respond at all to emotional language, and the lack of humour in my game perhaps leads to them feeling bored or something. Also, I don't carry any advantage of being English, so it seems like I am using the wrong type of game on them.

    Would love some advice on this.

  • #2
    I've run into British tourists on a number of occasions. Some in day game, some in night game.

    Now because of the spontaneous and liminal head-space people, women especially, get into on holidays. I may have been interacting with a different side of these girls.

    On the other hand, for what it's worth. . . I don't remember having that much trouble with them. I'd use a mix of frame control and persuasive language, deep diving and lush verbal descriptions (emotional and / or sexual) and risque banter. Fractionating back and forth between each. In my smaller sample size of experiences they respond to humor well too.

    Having a variety of styles, methods and techniques, to switch back and forth between, is also a good overall strategy to prevent inflation.

    Plus your voice is a fundamental aspect of seduction. Especially if you're going to be speaking a fair bit. Regardless of which type of game you're running, it's important that your voice adds a level of effectiveness to whatever leaves your mouth when talking to girls. Your voice, like other fundamentals like presence, serves to multiply it's effectiveness.

    One's tonality, pace of speaking, and energy can be some of the deciding factors, when it comes to being seen as charismatic or robotic.

    Comment


    • #3
      I read this recently on seddit lol

      https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/c.../the_uk_scene/

      Anyway, personally I find UK girls in the UK extremely difficult

      If I bang a UK girl, it's one that I bang in another country whilst she's travelling. Travelling girls in general are like 50x easier in general, though! I banged a few in Hungary when I was travelling in a hostel recently

      Or I bang foreign girls (polish etc) here in the UK mainly

      You actually often see posts about this on seddit. (also the instructors over at 'lovesystems' done an article about this once that has since been deleted )
      On the whole, the idea is that UK girls just find it odd to have random dudes walking up to them and striking up convo. They are very GUARDED and uncomfortable and it makes the whole thing a hell of a lot harder in every aspect. I just accept it now and know that i need to open a HUGE number of girls (day or night, personally) until I come across one who is both unusually social as well as physically attracted to me. If that happens, I have a shot! lol

      PS - ''English girls respond poorly to my type of game, with many usually laughing and calling me out when I speak using emotional language.'' -

      had to comment on this too, lol. I respect that everyone has different game that works for them, but when I read certain users posts here about their 'verbals' and their 'emotional language' examples they use in set etc I cringe pretty hard and I know that if I was to steal their lines and use them on UK girls here, they'd cringe hard too! lol. I guess it's about knowing your audience and adapting!
      Last edited by Subterfuge; 2 weeks ago.

      Comment


      • #4
        I am a British girl virgin, i don't find them attractive (the ones i met) specially the British dentistry lol.... But i heard from Steve Jabba what subterfuge is saying...

        Comment


        • allmyfriendsaredead
          Editing a comment
          they’re the ugliest white women on the planet without question

        • Skills360

          Skills360

          commented
          Editing a comment
          yeah i have never been attracted to them at all... I don't like the way they look, i don't like the accent, i don't like their behavior/attitude (constipated 24/7) full of sarcasm, don't like the humor... Only think i like is the music lol...

      • #5
        Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
        I am a British girl virgin, i don't find them attractive (the ones i met) specially the British dentistry lol.... But i heard from Steve Jabba what subterfuge is saying...
        hehe. The dentistry thing is MAINLY older women. braces weren't pushed by the NHS back then like they are now. Most young Brit girls have perfect teeth like US girls, at least where i live. Maybe it varies by area, though.

        I must say, UK girls get a bad rep in general, but personally, I bump into so many beautiful ones where i live that I can't really agree. And i've travelled a fair bit. However, I must say that in Budapest last month, the girls were unbelievable lol

        Mainly it's a certain 'look' that young brit girls have that I really go for! For example, the girl in my avi lives near me. Unfortunately I wasn't her type and she was a bitch to me!! haha

        Comment


        • #6
          No experience with UK in the UK. If you know what doesn't work, and you have a friend who's game does work, then you have a beginning road map toward what you need to do. Pioneer from there.

          FWIW I don't do a lot of emotional language stuff, I'm more cocky funny and enjoying myself. That stuff doesn't work on a lot of American girls either, or is particular and congruent only to certain seducer archetypes.

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by Logic&Reason View Post
            No experience with UK in the UK. If you know what doesn't work, and you have a friend who's game does work, then you have a beginning road map toward what you need to do. Pioneer from there.

            FWIW I don't do a lot of emotional language stuff, I'm more cocky funny and enjoying myself. That stuff doesn't work on a lot of American girls either, or is particular and congruent only to certain seducer archetypes.
            You may not be doing it in the "NLP style" but I guarantee you are emotionally stimulating girls verbally man. What kind of state are the girls in when you talk to to them? are they bored/logical or in an intoxicated, emotional state?

            NLP is one way to do it, Russell Brand witty is another way, or magic tricks, lots of ways to skin a cat, the cool thing about NLP is it keeps the vibe slightly serious and the energy level down, which makes it easier to control the interaction and transition into escalating physically.

            Comment


            • Logic&Reason

              Logic&Reason

              commented
              Editing a comment
              For sure, I’m emotionally stimulating girls in every way possible, I often get “i feel high around you” lol, and that’s very much the result of calculated emotional stimulation/manipulation that absolutely involves verbals. I even work in NLP wherever it makes sense, though I may keep it covert a bit less and move a bit closer to obvious innuendo from a more cocky funny place.

              I was thinking a bit more particularly to the OP and what he wrote about his results with women from various geographies. There’s a certain style of storytelling and verbalization that comes from many of the European posters that would be harder to pull off as an American with many American girls. I take more of the general ideas from these posts, less the specifics. I definitely think region and culture matter to the specifics of game.

          • #8
            Originally posted by K View Post



            NLP is one way to do it, Russell Brand witty is another way, or magic tricks, lots of ways to skin a cat, the cool thing about NLP is it keeps the vibe slightly serious and the energy level down, which makes it easier to control the interaction and transition into escalating physically.
            ^ if what you are saying is true then why hey_lover who is doing exactly that, is struggling and his friend doing cocky funny is getting laid?

            Russell Brand is not witti is sometype of second generation grandmaster style. variation which i call sexual funny(there is no such thing call witti style)


            and there is no magic trick you can do that will get a girl laid other than my special magic trick in which i fuck them then i disappear...


            Also i have never witness in real life any natural getting laid from NLP, is only a handful of guys he said her say.... No saying is not true or possible i am just saying is one of those things in the community like chinese dance floor game gurus that i have never seen in real life.

            Comment


            • Logic&Reason

              Logic&Reason

              commented
              Editing a comment
              NLP definitely works, wasn’t trying to re-open this rinsed out, overplayed, boring ass debate. It works for the OP, just on certain types from certain cultures.

              Game strategy and tactics, which are essentially psychological influence tactics, go far beyond what a natural may happen to discover on their own

            • Skills360

              Skills360

              commented
              Editing a comment
              yeah i know it works i am saying i have never witness it in real life...

          • #9
            english girls are ugly. native girls are always the most difficult.

            Comment


            • #10
              Russell brand mostly uses a mix of nlp and sexual humor. . .

              He fractionates / switches back-and-forth between the two. Or smoothly merges them into one another. But he does use an extreme amount of covert nlp to good success. Watching his stand-up, interviews, talk show shenanigans, etc. Was a big motivator for me to learn stronger verbal game.

              He's even mentioned having a buddy, who's a trained nlp specialist on speed-dial during a Conan interview. (LINK)

              Now there are two reasons that come to mind. . . as for why he doesn't get called out at all. One is the constant fractionation, which prevents any strategy used, from getting over-saturated or inflated. It's unlikely to get called out or miscalibrate, if you're constantly switching things around. This is something I've done with good success.

              In the interview I linked, if you pay attention, you can notice when he switches, between covert nlp and sexual humor. He likes to fire off a cascading string of descriptive and emotionally stimulating phrases, often listing them one after the other, gradually pacing and leading. Then he follows this up with a sexually humorous punch-line.

              Sometimes he places the punch line or sexual innuendo, right in-between the flow of emotional stimulation, without breaking his flow.

              I'll use a much lower energy version, since that's more congruent with my overall vibe. Anyway that's why I recommended this type of fractionation to the OP. The other reason is Russell obviously does not use stacks, routines or gambits. He's been unconsciously-competent with hypnotic verbal game for years. So he is able to covertly work it into any conversation, and freestyle in an extremely congruent fashion. This is also the end goal of most advanced techs. Especially, with any form of covert verbal game.

              Complete internalization, reaching a point where your self-expression and the seduction techniques, are basically indistinguishable.

              Of course, this all depends on whether the OP still wants to use hypnotic verbal game, on English girls in their hometown. If he has a desire to make it work, in these tougher situations, then I've outlined some helpful steps he can take. As K touches on, it does offer the most control, over emotional stimulation in your seductions. Plus he's seen me use it on multiple occasions. But if hey_lover would rather just drop the tactic on these girls, then he's free to do that as well.
              Last edited by Bacchus; 2 weeks ago.

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              • #11
                First of all Russel is one of many many guys that used the same style and he does not use nlp or none of that, there is nothing that russell does (which i find a bit weak, his humor, but it gets the job done and he is too overly direct for my taste, and sometimes put women in weird spots), to be replicated successfully by most people, but he does have massive social proof but is extremely similar to what howard stern, i and a bunch of other naturals do that never heard of nlp.... Of course many many guys use influence and persuasion....


                I know more nlp guys by being in multiple forums and hypnotist that Russell brand does not mean anything...


                Comment


                • #12
                  It's not so much that NLP doesn't work. Most of the concepts of NLP such as reframing, pacing and leading, fractionation, they're all fine. It's emotionally descriptive language which gets called out. European girls visibly fall into a trance, whilst English girls just laugh at you. The difference in reactions couldn't be more different. I think it's because European girls are typically more feminine and in touch with their feelings, so the language resonates with them, whilst English girls are as masculine as they can get. Chicks here are very much into laddish culture, so they seem to respond mores positively to cocky jerky and direct behaviour.

                  Comment


                  • Bacchus

                    Bacchus

                    commented
                    Editing a comment
                    By emotionally descriptive, do you techniques like trance words and embedded commands?

                    While these are rather basic nlp techniques, they can backfire pretty easily. If they seem forced, which tends to happen without things like the proper context (managing your conversation to give the appearance that you just "stumbled" on these topics) for these techniques, or a good voice (tonality, pace of speech, energy levels).

                    Especially it seemed like you were just talking normally, and then suddenly. . . you spew forth a (memorized) nlp laced monologue. That sort of thing is comes across jarring, and is very likely to get the reactions you're describing in the OP. Whenever I'm talking to women, I'm always using nlp techiques. I just vary the intensity.

                    Another thing, constantly looking for or growing attached to the visible "trance effect" is not going to help you get very far. For example, some girls won't go into it or react the exact same way, but they'll become a lot more energized and chatty, giving you more topics to work with, which is a good response too.

                • #13
                  Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
                  First of all Russel is one of many many guys that used the same style and he does not use nlp or none of that, there is nothing that russell does (which i find a bit weak, his humor, but it gets the job done and he is too overly direct for my taste, and sometimes put women in weird spots), to be replicated successfully by most people, but he does have massive social proof but is extremely similar to what howard stern, i and a bunch of other naturals do that never heard of nlp.... Of course many many guys use influence and persuasion....
                  Russell Brand does use nlp. It's also commonly, and covertly used in pop songs, sales pitches, advertisements and movie / tv show dialogues.

                  He even uses nlp in the video you linked above. Now with all due respect Skills, I don't think you have enough experience, with nlp to make such a statement. There are dozens of diverse and multifaceted nlp techniques / strategies out there. That you wouldn't be able to notice easily, and some that you probably haven't even heard of.

                  Before writing a response, that might lead to some sort of debate. Pause for a moment and think. . .

                  Isn't it logical that someone who's spent years learning, training and internalizing nlp. Would be able easily and adeptly recognize its use anywhere? I agree that his style is more direct than what I'd usually do. And yeah can get away with it due to his cultivated persona and celeb status. However, by taking away his direct statements of interest. And just using a combination of nlp which he does use, and risque banter / sexual humor you end up with a decent overall strategy. Field tested.

                  Something else worth mentioning is this. Whether or not a person knows the specifics the techniques they are using, like the pu jargon, or whatever. . . does not take away from the fact that they are still using the technique. In the same way people learn how to speak as children, after mimicking others and being immersed in an environment full of people speaking. They hear there parents, and older siblings speaking, and gradually learn how to speak.

                  Long before they head to school, and learn technical language-jargon like nouns, verbs, pronouns and various forms of sentence structuring.

                  It's entirely possible that Russell learned nlp, by mimicking other guys who use these techniques, which are commonly used in the entertainment industry. To the point where a lot of these techniques, are indistinguishable from what's known as charisma. And that he has no knowledge of the technical specifics.

                  But I personally think the opposite is true, and he learned and made these techniques his own. Like most expert pua's do. Mainly because of how flexible, and adaptable he is while using it. He's able to find ways to immerse, fascinate and powerfully control the states, of people around him. He also does it so covertly, that most people fail to notice what's happening. This looks like a highly trained level of unconscious-competence to me. Plus he was able to incorporate it seamlessly with his own style of pu.

                  Now while I'm completely sure that Russell Brand uses nlp. When it comes to the point of whether he absorbed bits and pieces, gradually incorporating more and more, just by being exposed to it. Or he went and learnt nlp from the ground up, reached unconscious-competence and then adapted it into his own style. The best I can do is speculate. . .

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    Originally posted by Bacchus View Post

                    Russell Brand does use nlp. It's also commonly, and covertly used in pop songs, sales pitches, advertisements and movie / tv show dialogues.

                    He even uses nlp in the video you linked above. Now with all due respect Skills, I don't think you have enough experience, with nlp to make such a statement. There are dozens of diverse and multifaceted nlp techniques / strategies out there. That you wouldn't be able to notice easily, and some that you probably haven't even heard of.

                    Before writing a response, that might lead to some sort of debate. Pause for a moment and think. . .

                    Isn't it logical that someone who's spent years learning, training and internalizing nlp. Would be able easily and adeptly recognize its use anywhere? I agree that his style is more direct than what I'd usually do. And yeah can get away with it due to his cultivated persona and celeb status. However, by taking away his direct statements of interest. And just using a combination of nlp which he does use, and risque banter / sexual humor you end up with a decent overall strategy. Field tested.

                    Something else worth mentioning is this. Whether or not a person knows the specifics the techniques they are using, like the pu jargon, or whatever. . . does not take away from the fact that they are still using the technique. In the same way people learn how to speak as children, after mimicking others and being immersed in an environment full of people speaking. They hear there parents, and older siblings speaking, and gradually learn how to speak.

                    Long before they head to school, and learn technical language-jargon like nouns, verbs, pronouns and various forms of sentence structuring.

                    It's entirely possible that Russell learned nlp, by mimicking other guys who use these techniques, which are commonly used in the entertainment industry. To the point where a lot of these techniques, are indistinguishable from what's known as charisma. And that he has no knowledge of the technical specifics.

                    But I personally think the opposite is true, and he learned and made these techniques his own. Like most expert pua's do. Mainly because of how flexible, and adaptable he is while using it. He's able to find ways to immerse, fascinate and powerfully control the states, of people around him. He also does it so covertly, that most people fail to notice what's happening. This looks like a highly trained level of unconscious-competence to me. Plus he was able to incorporate it seamlessly with his own style of pu.

                    Now while I'm completely sure that Russell Brand uses nlp. When it comes to the point of whether he absorbed bits and pieces, gradually incorporating more and more, just by being exposed to it. Or he went and learnt nlp from the ground up, reached unconscious-competence and then adapted it into his own style. The best I can do is speculate. . .
                    Tony robbins uses nlp as one of his main weapons and modeling...

                    Neil Strauss uses bits and pieces of nlp...

                    tyler uses nlp

                    Sarge uses Nlp in sales (Learned from Jordan Bredford, same with Jlmv)

                    I can go on..... here is the source of the discussion, where i was like wtf is kant talking about:


                    NLP is one way to do it, Russell Brand witty is another way, or magic tricks, lots of ways to skin a cat, the cool thing about NLP is it keeps the vibe slightly serious and the energy level down, which makes it easier to control the interaction and transition into escalating physically.

                    Russell brand has been with thousands of girls prior to your "he had a roomate hypnotist" or whatever ridiculous argument bro...

                    If I tell you close your eyes and do not think of anything red you will see everything red...

                    You are sooo much into nlp that you think "oh look at that dude he is doing covert nlp"

                    Russell brand style is grandmaster style, sexual funny.... if you want to think is covert sophisticated nlp, then we will agree to disagree.... Everything he does and say in the video i have done (500000 BETTER) for years and the nlp i know is whatever i read minimally in forums,, the book the game,tony robbins and berdfort....

                    My point is you are sooo sold and deep in nlp that you are reaching....


                    when dudes use influence and persuasion (i am sales dude) there maybe what you think are "covert nlp" which could be true, but is not that "he study that" he achieve mastery and he is mixing it...


                    There is 0 evidence.... And this is just a silly debate...



                    Comment


                    • #15
                      Originally posted by Skills360 View Post

                      You are sooo much into nlp that you think "oh look at that dude he is doing covert nlp"

                      Russell brand style is grandmaster style, sexual funny.... if you want to think is covert sophisticated nlp, then we will agree to disagree.... Everything he does and say in the video i have done (500000 BETTER) for years and the nlp i know is whatever i read minimally in forums,, the book the game,tony robbins and berdfort....

                      My point is you are sooo sold and deep in nlp that you are reaching....


                      when dudes use influence and persuasion (i am sales dude) there maybe what you think are "covert nlp" which could be true, but is not that "he study that" he achieve mastery and he is mixing it...


                      There is 0 evidence.... And this is just a silly debate...
                      I suggested you pause and think, before posting and you write like you ignored that.

                      Anyone who studies something intensely. Or reaches a high level of competence in a certain area. Will be able to recognize the use or application of that area of expertise. I'm not some newbie pua, who just learned a couple new techniques and got overly excited. Neither am I reaching, in any way, shape or form.

                      First of all as you've said, you only know a minimal amount of nlp. So this isn't even a debate you're equipped to partake in. But here we are. . .

                      Anyway, a good portion of the verbal techniques that make up, what you call influence and persuasion, actually originate from nlp. A number of commonly used influence / sales / persuasion tactics are broken-down, and explained in the process of learning nlp. Allowing you to deeply understand these techniques, innovate on them, and integrate them into your normal way of speaking. After all nlp stands for neuro-lingistic-programming, doesn't this sound like something, which involves a lot influence and persuasion to you?

                      The guys on this forum who make use of nlp, myself included. Use it primary as a tactic for influence / persuasive purposes. To clarify on what I said above. The only importance of Russell knowing an nlp guy, is that he's already been exposed to it. Almost anyone, can pick up little bits and pieces, of seduction techniques through exposure.

                      Which is what I explained in my last post, where I also added (it seems you didn't read it properly.) That I can't say for certain, and can only speculate. On whether he studied it or just learned it through exposure. Now, the reason I say he uses nlp is simply because. . . I can easily spot and pick out the techniques, strategies and fundamentals of nlp. In several of his videos online. I thought this was obvious, but since you accused me of reaching, I guess I have to state the obvious.

                      Now instead of letting this thread, continue to get hijacked with a debate, as stupid as this one. I will simply link a video with evidence. Where Russell explains, how to use a form of pacing and leading. Which is an nlp technique. This snippet is one of the reasons I think he learnt it. But again, the best I can do is speculate (EVIDENCE)

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