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Woman's 3 Fantasy Archetypes (Attn: Jimmy Chonga)

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  • Woman's 3 Fantasy Archetypes (Attn: Jimmy Chonga)

    A while back Jimmy Chonga asked me to elaborate on my ideas about woman’s fantasy sexual scenarios, the way that they are a kind of window into her desires, and how I use them in my seductions and to keep things interesting in relationships. So I wrote the below… It um… got kind of long but I did try to keep it lively with some explicit sex reports.

    Let me begin this thread by acknowledging that all human fantasies are unique and as individual as our fingerprints or irises… But… and this is a big deal… there are themes in the stories we tell that come up again and again, these archetypical story structures are something we share as a species. They do not just pertain to sexual fantasy but also to our ideals of masculinity and femininity, our concept of a hero, a leader, a saint, a whore, family, piety, patriotism, and sacrifice. Karl Jung, Joseph Compel, Noam Chompsky, etc… Have all in their way shown that there are basic structures to language, myth and subconscious imagery that we are all borne with and that we all respond to. In this thread I am going talk about archetypes of the masculine and the feminine in myth and popular culture and mix them with field reports from my own life to illustrate how an understanding of the archetypical storylines of woman’s sexual fantasy and the archetypical characters representing the types of manliness can be a tool of a seducer in his verbal game, and in his self-development.

    The first thing to realize is that a man’s sexuality is different from a woman’s, not just physically but psychologically. A man’s sexuality is about seeing, and being… We focus on being a strong powerful independent man, and seeing from that place of strength the abundance of female flesh that sparks our arousal. A woman’s sexuality is about feeling and becoming. She is as excited by the way things happen, the story in her head about what is going on, and how that relates with her sense of self, as she is by the physicality of the sexual experience. This is why game works… It is a conscious manipulation of the archetypical sexual scenarios that transform her perception, both of what is happening and of who it is happening with. I want to stress that I feel it is the seducers ethical code not to do this to manipulate woman into bed, but instead to provide her with a cathartic emotional experience along with her physical peaks.

    It is my view that to truly seduce a woman is to seduce her imagination, her body, and her memory… A properly seduced woman will masturbate while remembering/fanaticizing about the things you did on a week long holiday tryst 5 years previous.

    I think there are 3 archetypical plot lines to woman’s fantasy scenarios they can of course play out in a myriad of different ways but if you know what the archetypes are you can listen and question to determine which scenario is the primary one for the woman you are with. Most woman respond to some degree to all three, but in my experience there is a primary scenario and if you adjust your game to deliver it to her she will respond powerfully:


    Archetype 1) Pretty Pretty Princess- In the PPP scenario the woman’s desire is to be transformed by her sexual connection to a powerful man. The most common and foundational version of this sexual scenario is the Cinderella Fairy Tail. Cinderella is a scullery maid whose inner secret class and beauty are revealed through a super natural Fairy God Mother make over and a romantic evening with a good looking, rich and powerful man… Kissing and magic shoe shopping transform her into a princess.

    The transformative archetype is why the part of Pretty Woman where Richard Gere buys the dresses for Julia Roberts, is so sexy to women… She is transformed from a prostitute, with a secret heart of gold, into an elegant socialite, who is so exquisitely sensitive that she cries at Italian operas!

    Please note I am not recommending trying to bribe sex out of women with gifts! Although gifts and make overs are part of the cherishing and pampering that typify the Pretty Pretty Princess archetype. It is essential to differentiate gold-digging from the PPP fantasy… The PPP is most attracted to highly self-developed men, because she literally wants to lose herself in your world. If she is whisked away on your horse, motorcycle, pirate ship, or limo… She must put herself in your hands, change her cloths hair and manners to match your world… This mean what happens next is up to you, she is rendered open and complaint. Because the Pretty Princes is aroused by the emotional rush of the giving over her self-transformation to a man, she is the most vulnerable of the three archetypes…The Princes does not risk her body, she risks her identity. This is why they want to be treated like they are made out of glass, pampered and protected… So they know they are safe and comforted enough to fully submit both their bodies and their inner selves to another.

    The pleasure of a relationship with a Pretty Pretty Princess is the complete and unreserved way she will want to be with you. The thing about courting a princess is you can’t be lazy… You can’t let her chase but can’t appear to be chasing yourself. When a PPP starts to chase a man it can quickly devolve into gold-digging and provider seeking… If you do not provide the frame she will begin to do it. You will be beta-zed and worse she will resent you for it. When romancing a princess she should be giddy and flustered always off balance… You can play with her inner Madonna Whore programing for transformative effect as I did bleow:

    Pretty Pretty Princess LR:
    My OLTR “Nora” is primarily a Pretty Pretty Princess… Although she has a strong submission sub plot to her fantasy life. We have been together for two and a half years but this seduction got her going like she had 4 alarm NRE… Recently it has been the holiday season in New York. This is the time of year when the guys in Santa hats with the little silver bells dance in front of Bergdorf’s, and Saks decorates their elaborate windows… But it is also the time of year when successful people get dressed up in black tie and give their money away at charity events. I usually go to a few of these each year for the networking and the exposure. The day before one such event I suggested Nora go to the spa and get waxed and polished to look pretty for me… Princess love pampering and I wanted to get her engines warm…She wore a black translucent vintage Oscar De La Renta dress with a pair of lean black Louboutins, blue lace panties and no bra… I used my driver who is also my wing man that night, and he was in full “member of the court” mode, “May I hold an umbrella for you Ms. Nora?” I kept it breezy at the event moving her from conversation to conversation with my hand at the small of her back… Which was exposed skin due to the cut of her dress. We ate lightly and stuck to the protein as her profession requires that she maintain her figure, and I like to stay trim to keep up. Charity events, like the high school prom, are really about the after party… we never made it…

    On the way down town I had us stop for some “shopping” at a famously alternative Chelsea sex shop. We were comically overdressed. Remember a Pretty princess seduction is not as much about the dress up as it is about the transformation. The woman behind the counter was a butch lesbian who looked a little like James Gandolfini with a mullet… and she started out openly hostile to our presence. I made it my business to win her over with an infectiously uninhibited omega vibe… We were laughing and flirting and chatting with the few other patrons one of whom was a tall African American woman who was trying on her first corset… Nora had to comment “Oh yes… you look great in that …” Then turning to me with her girly voice, “Honey… I think I want you to buy me the tiny silver but plug with the rhinestones on the base... It goes with my dress and will make me very sparkly.” By the end our sales woman was completely warmed up and showing us the various advantages of some beautify soft bondage rope.

    The transformations of the day from house frau, to socialite, and then to S&M sex kitten did what they always do with a pretty princess… They tuned her on massively. Nora got off on my fingers in the car, on my mouth in the foyer, and on my cock over and over again in my apartment. She was wildly feminine and still thrillingly uninhibited.

    Archetype 2 Over Come with Passion- The 3 sexist words in the English language to an OCP are… It Just Happened... Passion women have a lot to say and unlike the girly purr of a Pretty Princes, it tends to be pretty declarative, “We just could not help ourselves and tore each other’s cloths off… We were like animals…I could not help it… I never do anything like this…We were in public… Other people might have seen… We are practically strangers… Oh god this is so fucking HOT…”

    Passion woman require the strongest masculine frame from you because their sexual scenario is about letting go of their inhibitions, they are aroused by transgression and risk. She is a little frightened by the intensity of her own desire and what she might do to satisfy it. She needs to trust you with that. This is why the OCP seduction is all about passing shit tests and trading barbed comments. Each time she tests your frame and it stands up, it increases the sexual tension. She needs a man that can handle her emotion/passion who is strong and trustworthy enough for her to be able to let go of her controlled social veneer and let her true animalistic passion out.

    To get feel for the music of a Passon seduction, think about the charged ping pong like banter between Bruce Willis and Cybil Sheppard in Moonlighting, or the classic love/hate romantic tension between Spencer Tracey and Kathrine Hepburn In Adams Rib or Desk Set…

    My approach if I am getting an OCP vibe is to keep the verbal ping pong going for a while and not do the kind of light comfort building kino that I might do for a more submissive type like a PPP… A passion girl wants to be part of the game she wants to trade barbs and innuendo…This keeps raising the heat… My meet to lay with Overcome with Passion girls is shorter then with the other types. I more often than usual try for a single date lay, or keep my day one instadate very short when I get OCP energy. I do this because their window of interest closes quicker than the other types. Once the verbal game has them at a simmer, I try to physically escalate very subtly for a while teasing almost touching… Then very suddenly… No push pull no comfort building just go very hard… Wall smash on a side walk pull her through the street grab her ass and kiss her hard in the elevator… Don’t make it to the bedroom for the first fuck.

    Over Come with Passion LR:

    A couple of months ago I was at a group business luncheon with about 12 people… I was sitting in the center of the table as is my habit and talking to everyone. I was lightly flirting with a female friend who was hosting the event… My flirting was not serious however, as she is too young for my taste, and is such a great pivot both for women and for business it would be a shame to complicate the friendship… There was a thin elegant brunette, an attorney as it turned out, sitting at the end of the table who was half interested in our chatting… The conversation was about trends in men’s fashion…Specifically highly tailored trousers with a short inseam that expose the ankle (I am sure you have seen the look in GQ… ) I said something to the effect that I love the look in the abstract but I thought that it really did not translate off the runway because in practice it would look too nerdy… HB Attorney breaks into our conversation with a light shit test,” You are concerned about looking nerdy while rocking a bow tie?” I looked her dead in the eye waited 3 beats and said with a closed mouth smile… without breaking my gaze,” There is a difference between nerdy…. And…Sexy librarian.” She got up from her seat walked around the table sat in an empty chair next to me… The conversation was a series of teasing frame tests mixed with compliments from her side… Little sexy jokes and slightly mysterious answers from mine… This is the verbal escalation style of the passion archetype. To seduce her you first need to pass a series of shit tests… While introducing a sexual element. Next get her to start talking about herself. In this case I revealed that I was a single father… and she began to tell me about her kids, divorce etc… When a woman goes from shit test to proximity to vulnerable personal revelation it is a demonstration of trust. An OCP seduction is all about her trust in your strength. The central question behind the whole initial exchange is are you man enough to just TAKE ME… and of course are you man enough that I actually let you.

    The meet with HB Atourney went too long for this to reliably turn into a day 2… The window on these women closes really fast and suddenly. So I am thinking about how to bridge to an isolated afternoon sex location quickly and in a way that seems completely spontaneous to her. You can invite a princess back to your apartment, and she may come compliantly as long as you keep the soft quiet pampered vibe going… Try that on a Passion girl and you will blow out… She does not want to be seduced by you… She wants to participate in the seduction with you.

    At the time I was moving my company to a new larger location. The construction was almost all finished but the office systems were not installed yet… So I knew the space was likely to be empty. I just mentioned that I was excited about the design of our new space and left it at that…But I had a plan to close this open loop later.

    I called my car and asked her if she would like a ride to her office as I knew from looking at her card that it was close to the address of my new location. Back seats are made for light kino they are like little semi-private couch booths. When I passed my new block I told her that I was going to jump out to check the progress on my new space… and then as if it were an afterthought told her to get out too so I could show it to her. I did this in an enthusiastic almost boyish way… Which contrasted to the cool flirtatious vibe I had been projecting… Almost like I suddenly decided to let a girl into my tree house.

    I brought her up to the new space which was indeed empty and furnished with only about half the furniture and none of the office cubes. I put my arm around her waist and began to show her around. (I am not a huge believer in the value of a DHV but that fact that my initials were on the big glass doors could not have hurt) I took her into the main conference room with the excuse that I wanted to show her a cool light fixture… and right at the door way kissed her softly… When she began to kiss back I raised the heat really quickly. I always kiss a passion woman softly to give her an opportunity to kiss back… But when she does I escalate very fast. Kissing hard up against a wall… her cloths are coming off fast but not all the way. I fucked HB Attorney in the empty conference room grappling through her cloths to see how wet she was, because it is key to get your cock in quickly with a passion woman then pull it out before you come… (I keep a small stash of condoms in a vintage sterling silver cigarette case in my brief case for situations like this.) I went down on her in the middle of the sex act… Many woman need clit work to come… but passion woman can misinterpret conscientious foreplay as indecision… So I went for it while,, we were still partly dressed. After that I give her clit what it needed and got more of the cloths out of the way, then I fucked her again…I try not to end a sex act with my own orgasm. So after I came, I said,” I can’t get enough of you and ate her out and fingered her again.” I always want to surprise an Over Come with Passion woman with my heat for her.

    Archetype 3 Submission Fantasy- Many woman have a variety of submissive fantasy scenarios, but whether they are imagining bondage, rape, coercion, discipline, being a pet animal, or spanked like a naughty school girl, all submissive fantasy has one thing in common. She is not in charge… And so does not have to be responsible for the sex act… I am not a dirty like that, he made me do it… I was tied up…and uh… I loved it.

    Submission women have found a loop hole that removes their ASD. How can I be being slutty if I was handcuffed to the bed… For many woman their innate sexual resistance is at war with their desire. Their sub conscious fixes the problem with scenarios where their volition in the sex act is somehow compromised. This is the key to Submission woman… They are not fundamentally about the spankings or the handcuffs or the rough sex… although it is likely they will enjoy some or all of these things; Submission Women fundamentally crave being told what to do. The way to tease out submission fantasy is to tell her to do something and see how she reacts. I usualy start with, “ Sit here… and let me look at you,” said with a strong contained sexual state and a closed mouth smile.

    The success of Fifty Shades of Grey (If you have not read it you should…I Know its chic-lit but it is a story that 100 Million woman masturbated to… There is something in there that make the put their hands in their panties you want to know how that works) is due to the prevalence of the Submissive fantasy archetype… All though E. L. James is a smart cookie and included a makeover Cinderella sub plot… and tons of barbed text banter that turns into half clothed public elevator fucking, to make sure all 3 archetypes got there twats twiddled.

    Submission Fantasy LR:

    There was a woman, a pretty red head we will call Freckles that I had a day one breakfast insta-date with a while back and then kind of forgot about it over the holidays because I was doing the domestic thing in the country with my OLTR… During our conversation, Freckles complained about New York men and their general low quality and the way they are indecisive, beat around the bush, and never plan the date, “ They make me do all of the work, sometimes I want them to just be a man and TAKE OVER,” I detected a submissive vibe in her complaints. They of course were also a kind of a test to see if I would become defensive or distinguish myself from the men she was complaining about.. I had agreed with her that yes in my experience, sometimes a girl really just needs a man to take charge… It is a liberating experience for both parties when you can just grab a girl by the hair do her like she need you to. Its just how we are built, men and women, I don’t know when most of the guys forgot our part of the dance.” She agreed with me and we finished the day 1 with a vague promise that we should do this again… But like I said I got distracted and did not do a day 2… Bad game on my part for a sub girl seduction… But… our conversation must have stuck in her head because she called me recently… With no discernable agenda. Just how are you doing happy New Year that kind of stuff… I decided to take over. I told her I was going to make something good for dinner and told her to join me at my apartment after work.

    She showed up dressed for the office, but with fresh makeup… (I like to note how much effort a woman put into dressing for a date… It indicates how DTF she is) I made point of showing up just a few minutes before her and keeping my suit and tie on. I took her coat. Then took off my tie and jacket and unbuttoned the top two buttons of my shirt… I offered to take her jacket as well. and used it as an opportunity for a little gentle kino. I told her she looked much more relaxed and to go sit on one of my kitchen island stools so I could get a better look at her. I made sure she saw me look at her legs and then her throat where her shirt was open. I told her she needed a martini and shook up two of them. I finished cooking while she drank.

    As I recount the rest of this remember this woman called me… and was pretty much DTF… I might not have been quite as frisky with a woman that had not sent me such clear signals. But I very much got the sense that this woman was looking for an experience.

    A goto recipe for me for this kind of evening is a whole roasted chicken stuffed with a whole lemon and, with butter and herbs smashed under the skin. It can be prepared a day in advance and just popped in the oven with some root veggies for light elegant winter meal… By the time Freckles was in my kitchen The bird was already done, and in a shallow cooking vessel… But not tied…I went behind the island and chopped the root vegetables with a very sharp chef’s knife… I have pretty decent knife skills and just using a blade in front of a woman can be sexy. The last step before cooking is to “truss the bird” So I made a little production of tying off the chickens limbs with white culinary string in a tight neat way, while making a little blush inducing joke about how much prettier it looked tied up like that… While the bird cooked (which only takes 20 – 30 minutes in a micro-convection oven…) I stepped around behind freckles and ran my hands down her arms and pulled them behind her back gently… Then reached up into the hair at the nape of her neck and made a fist. So I could turn her head for a light kiss with maximum eye contact. This is my go to escalation for a submissive archetype woman… If done correctly (close to the scalp) it does not create pain, but dos give you full control of her head. A Sub woman will be very aroused by being “helpless” while you kiss her… But unlike a passion woman don’t kiss hard or escalate as fast… You need to demonstrate control. This can be done through contrasts in sensation, like grabbing her hair firmly and kissing her lips softly.

    Submission is a game… The push pull is more intense then it is with the other archetypes. I told freckles that I liked playing with her, and that I enjoy feeding women... Sometimes by hand. When the chicken came out of the oven… and only cooled just a little I pulled off a piece of meat the French call the oyster… There are two on every chicken on either side of the body near the curved bone of the thigh. They look like oysters and can be removed with two fingers. They are the best meat on a chicken…. I told her how good they are and let her eat one from my fingers... and kissed her slightly greasy mouth… At this point I was getting praise for my cooking and doggie dinner bowl eyes, so I escalated again… With a Sub woman escalation can just be a request… I told her that I wanted to feed her the rest of her dinner but that I did not want to stain her suit… I said I would like her to take it off and wear one of my dress shirts instead… “I am going to my closet to get one, when I get back I would like to find you in your bra and panties… “

    Ooof… She whore special undies for out date. Small and lacy and pale green… Always amazing on a red head. But again I was restrained. The difference in Sub seductions is that she should be… Or at least appear to be more turned on then you until the very end… So even though I wanted to abandon diner and throw her on the floor right there, I resisted and instead put the shirt on her. (Woman are used to being undressed by a man not dressed, covering an uncovered a woman is a very dominant thing to do… It says I am in control of this encounter… Let’s save this treat for dessert )

    I made one plate of food on a trey with two glasses of Chardonnay and suggested we eat in bed…

    When we began to make out in earnest after eating dinner... I again began to tell her what to do, Take off your panties, but leave the shirt on” First time sex with a sub girl need not and probably should not be about handcuffs or paddles… It is about establishing an emotional space where she can trust your control… This liberates her sexuality. I ended up tying the over long sleeves of my shirt to my head board to retrain her while I went down on her… and then later tying them together to use as a “handle” while I fucked her from behind.

  • #2
    Nice! I find that openly worshiping a girl's beauty, is the most underrated thing in PU. This PPP could be the reason!

    Girls sure love feeling like a defenseless little girl around the right man. They get horny from cat & mouse, as both the cat and the mouse. They get horny from wrestling/play-fighting.

    On a side note, 'playing doctor' and 'playing family' are general terms used when referring to the sexually themed games children play. However, every girl I played such games with in my childhood insisted on rather grotesque dungeon themes. Just saying.
    Loves: Shy Girl-coding into Starry-eyed Extroversion, spamming Open-loops and Mini-cold-reads and lots of light kino.
    Hates: Putting pressure on others. Things that feel 'brainy'.

    Comment


    • #3
      Great post Thin Man, keep them coming..

      Originally posted by ijjjji View Post
      Nice! I find that openly worshiping a girl's beauty, is the most underrated thing in PU. This PPP could be the reason
      I've been thinking about this lately. Now that I am no longer in any danger of being perceived as beta or unattractive, I wonder if it could have a 'good' effect to openly and honestly admire a girl's beauty.

      I guess in general I want to start moving away from doing things or not doing things due to tactics, and just do whatever I feel like doing at the moment. Living life more authentically.

      Girls sure love feeling like a defenseless little girl around the right man. They get horny from cat & mouse, as both the cat and the mouse. They get horny from wrestling/play-fighting.
      A good end goal in PU is to make it so she feels like a little girl around you, along with having a strong sexual vibe. If you achieve this you are likely doing things right

      Comment


      • #4
        I like the idea of categorizing common female fantasies. Good stuff.

        Where would the housewife & pool boy/princess & stable boy fantasy fit in? This one has been so prevalent throughout history that it has evolved with the times. Perhaps it could be referred to as "role reversal fantasy" since the woman is in the dominant role and the attraction is purely physical with no expectations for a future.

        The student/professor or secretary/boss fantasy is also very prevalent if a bit too simplistic. In a way, it is just the "basic female fantasy" in that the man has power over her and the fantasy plays itself out over weeks, months or years with a slow build in sexual tension.
        "In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them." --John Von Neumann

        "Courage is found in unlikely places." -- J. R. R. Tolkien

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by kant View Post
          I guess in general I want to start moving away from doing things or not doing things due to tactics, and just do whatever I feel like doing at the moment. Living life more authentically.
          For me once I knew about attraction from a tactical standpoint I was unable to unlearn what I knew. Rather then just trying to forget how a woman's desire works, what I have done is reevaluate my motivations for seduction ... I have changed my motivations over time to more generous and authentic ones. I use the tools of seduction not just to get my dick damp... Or as I often see less experienced guys say here to get a woman to "let" me fuck her... I now use the tools of seduction to try to create a more powerful and fulfilling sexual experience for the women I am with.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SteelyDan View Post
            Where would the housewife & pool boy/princess & stable boy fantasy fit in? This one has been so prevalent throughout history that it has evolved with the times. Perhaps it could be referred to as "role reversal fantasy" since the woman is in the dominant role and the attraction is purely physical with no expectations for a future.
            These might be fem/dom fantasies or they might not... Woman in long relationships in the typical beta provider mode, day dream about cheating with an Alpha lover... The more transgression, the more forbidden, the less provider the fantasy man the sexier.

            If she makes the pool boy massage her with tanning oil and then he goes down on her for tips... This is a Pretty Princess fem/dom fantasy.

            If the Pool man comes in the kitchen for a glass of water wearing only a pair of sneakers and cutoffs... and she cant keep her hands off of his beautiful pecs... and he ends up tearing her panties of and doing her hard on the kitchen table with her 50s June Cleaver dress pulled up... it is an Overcome with Passion fantasy.

            If the stable boy sneaks into the castle and ties the queen to her bed and and does unmentionable things to her... shiver.... Then it is a submission fantasy.

            In my experience true fem/doms are pretty rare... Usually when a woman experiments with her dom side the fantasy is about teaming up with her top to dominate a third party... Usually another woman. (I'm not Bi-sexual my master made me do it...) True fem/doms are almost always Pretty Princesses. All about the luxury and pampering they can get from their sub...

            The student/professor or secretary/boss fantasy is also very prevalent if a bit too simplistic. In a way, it is just the "basic female fantasy" in that the man has power over her and the fantasy plays itself out over weeks, months or years with a slow build in sexual tension.
            These are coercion Submission scenarios... "Oh professor I don't ever do anal... I am not that kind of girl but... I guess if I have to, so you pass me in calculus, maybe I could do it this one time." Saved from her ASD by sexual blackmail...

            Comment


            • #7
              Interesting that you think of the pool boy as alpha. I always considered the pool boy fantasy to be unique in that the pool boy has no power or status and does not lead the interaction.

              Don Draper is about as alpha as it gets but his wife still fantasizes about the nervous shy vacuum salesman. This can hardly be interpreted as choosing alpha over beta. Quite the opposite.
              "In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them." --John Von Neumann

              "Courage is found in unlikely places." -- J. R. R. Tolkien

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SteelyDan View Post
                Interesting that you think of the pool boy as alpha. I always considered the pool boy fantasy to be unique in that the pool boy has no power or status and does not lead the interaction.
                You don't need power or status or money to be Alpha... You need masculine energy... Drifters, cowboys, auto mechanics, down and out boxers, gangsters, the gardener in Lady Chatterley's Lover, fire men, etc... and yes possibly the pool boy are all archetypes of alpha energy.

                The thing to note about the pool boy fantasy is that the woman is a house wife... A single woman that fucks the help is a very different character then a married woman who does. The pool boy is a secret side dish... Lover as opposed to provider arrangement, this is what make him the alpha character.

                Don Draper is about as alpha as it gets but his wife still fantasizes about the nervous shy vacuum salesman. This can hardly be interpreted as choosing alpha over beta. Quite the opposite.
                Actually it think it was an AC salesman... and Don is out banging his lover, all the while he has been turning Betty down for sex... Betty later on, day dreams about a "zipless fuck" with the AC guy to use the 60s terminology for a ONS... While as I remember it she has revenge sex with a vibrating cloths dryer.... This is pure cheating transgression fantasy in my opinion. I believe it is included in the show to demonstrate that the Draper marriage has lost its heat...
                Last edited by The Thin Man; 02-10-2015, 09:10 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yes, it was an AC guy. You have an incredible memory. That was years ago.
                  "In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them." --John Von Neumann

                  "Courage is found in unlikely places." -- J. R. R. Tolkien

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Thin Man View Post
                    You don't need power or status or money to be Alpha... You need masculine energy... Drifters, cowboys, auto mechanics, down and out boxers, gangsters, the gardener in Lady Chaerlys Lover, fire men, etc... and yes possibly the pool boy are all archetypes of alpha energy.
                    Well, it couldn't all just boil down to masculine energy. First of all, that wouldn't explain the allure of men with undeniably feminine energy (not just celebs like Prince and Nick Jonas but also gay men).

                    Anyway, the idea that "all men are dickless pussies except for me, a reformed undersexed geek sitting behind a computer screen" has always given me a chuckle. I think a lot of the RSD guys have more feminine energy than masculine, NTTAWTT.

                    In the end, balance always triumphs over extremes in the game.
                    "In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them." --John Von Neumann

                    "Courage is found in unlikely places." -- J. R. R. Tolkien

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you for taking the time to write up this post

                      It seems to me that in all of the fantasies the women submit. In all of the fantasies she must test that she can trust a man. Can it therefore not be simplified to describing the differences in what turns a woman on?

                      1) aroused by the emotional rush of the giving over her self-transformation to a man
                      2) aroused by transgression and risk
                      3) aroused by … what, exactly ?

                      ..and it seems to me that all of these involve the woman being effectively child-like? She is on a roller coaster. She doesnt care how it works or where it came from. She doesnt even have a sense that you are creating that roller coaster. But she wants it to exist and for you to ride it with her, and like a child she will say “wheeee!” and “more, more more!”.

                      -------
                      re: emotional trust. in this moment I am reminded of this piece of gold by illuminatus from a while back:

                      http://www.personalpowermeditation.c...er-management/
                      -------

                      the post is insightful. Until now I indiscriminantly have (at least internally) had major alarm bells go off when a woman asks me to buy her something. So the episode in the sex store when she suggested / asked you to buy the butt plug – that would have likely moved me break rapport. But what you say is important – that for her the thing is transformation, that she is submitting her identity to me. This is not the same as her asking for gifts in a provider / hunter sort of way. I think retrospectively I flamed out of many such scenarios because I misread them. So let me ask you – how does one properly read that she is PPP and not provider hunting, especially given that, like you said, it can quickly devolve into provider hunting?

                      The PPP needs to trust that she can submit her identity. The OCP needs to trust that she can submit her spontaneous emotions. The pure submission bypasses ASD.

                      “passion woman can misinterpret conscientious foreplay as indecision”

                      yes!!! btw – it sounds like the OCP woman needs a lover that is the “the rake” archetype from “The Art of Seduction” (Robert Greene)

                      ..I have to let this all marinade a bit..

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                      • #12
                        Good stuff. Moved to HoF per Silvertree's suggestion.
                        ~Tubarao
                        fuzzyandoj.com
                        www.crushingpavement.com

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SteelyDan View Post
                          Well, it couldn't all just boil down to masculine energy. First of all, that wouldn't explain the allure of men with undeniably feminine energy (not just celebs like Prince and Nick Jonas but also gay men).
                          This is one of those interesting things...Androgyny can work for you.

                          However I think you are conflating two male archetypes... Although they both trade on androgyny. One of them is perhaps the most extremely sexually attractive, to many women, of all of the archetypes. Performers like Prince, Mick Jagger, David Bowie, Alice Cooper etc... are the archetype of the medicine man. He is a magical creature that is outside of the traditional gender duality a thin androgynous singer story teller dancer... A wearer of masks and costumes... Woman love the medicine man the most... The medicine man archetype is also behind the strange sexual draw of some kinds of cult leaders... Think about how androgynous Warren Jeffs is...

                          The other Archetype is the Man Child... Think Sean Cassidy, Nick Jonas, Justin Timberlake, or the early Beetles... This is the archetype of the boy bands. They are not magic they are approachable... and they are most attractive to virginal women. Their androgyny makes them less scary to pre-sexual teens who can get into a strange group frenzy over them, a kind of mob attraction you never see in mature women.
                          Last edited by The Thin Man; 02-10-2015, 09:11 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tubarao View Post
                            Good stuff. Moved to HoF per Silvertree's suggestion.
                            Hey... Thanks Guys. I am glad you like it...

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                            • #15
                              I definitely agree about teenage girls preferring the following:
                              * clear skin/small pores
                              * pretty face
                              * nice hair
                              * short to average height

                              I tend to use the word "pretty boy" (a physical trait) for what you are calling "man child", and I use "man child" for guys like Dane Cook, Ryan Reynolds, Gene Simmons....more of a personality trait of just being a grown man with a Peter Pan complex. I find Justin Timberlake to be an old soul if anything.

                              Agree about those rock stars along with Jim Morrison having a medicine man/shaman role, but I think that is more to do with them being rock stars than being androgynous/feminine.

                              Anyway, everything gets messed up when you start talking about celebrities (guilty as charged, I know). The particular IRL guy I am thinking of was definitely a PUA of some type -- don't know if he was part of the community -- somewhat of a pretty boy...soft features but not overly so. But his personality was what really struck me as feminine. He had eyes that looked like he was so vulnerable -- like on the edge of crying at any given moment. A soft, delicate voice. He absolutely killed it with women numbers-wise, and most of them were older. He was a brilliant strategist really, because his conquests would defend his promiscuity to the critics -- almost in a mother-child sort of way. Really fascinating to watch. Definitely not alpha by any stretch of the imagination though. There was nothing masculine about this guy.

                              When I was working in Europe, there was a guy with a similar vibe who also dipped his paintbrush in quite a few paint cans by playing the vulnerable card. He was married back home, had a piece in the city, and I know of at least two other hot women he fucked while I was there (he had a longer term assignment). The dude played rugby and always got fucked up with bruises and broken bones, but it only made the women tend to him more. Least masculine guy in the group by far, somehow he was always the victim, but he also killed it with the women.
                              "In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them." --John Von Neumann

                              "Courage is found in unlikely places." -- J. R. R. Tolkien

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