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Some clarification on pre approach-hover-ras-paimai etc.

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  • Some clarification on pre approach-hover-ras-paimai etc.

    I stumbled across this thread with a guy saying he was having trouble with the "hover" from my old materials.

    Ok let me explain what it is, and what "pre approach" game is.


    It is so annoying when people don't get this very valuable principle and just say "hovering is creepy" ugh.

    The hover is a trick to make her think she is noticing you first, that simple. I stole it from women, when they stop in front of you and pretend to be digging through their purse or texting. That is how chicks open guys.

    Anyhow, you can do the same, and it makes opening and hooking way smoother.

    First I have to tell you how it works in her head, so you get why doing it is worthwhile at all.

    They did a study on women rating male pictures on profiles and such, and when men aren't directly looking at the camera women like it better.

    This isn't to say eye contact is bad, actually its the reverse, eye contact is one of the best things in a pua toolbox, ONCE you are interacting with her.

    Before that though, it is in your interest for her to feel as if she is selecting you, as if you are of value in her environment because she noticed you. This is what the guy in the profile picture talking to his friend, or looking at the scenery mimics, is her noticing and watching a guy, because she sees some attractive quality or value in him. This is the "reticular activation system" "mystique" the new October man sequence style hype behind the scenes in the pickup community right now.

    For those who don't know the reticular activation system is basically responsible for attention, and what we pay attention to, is perceived as having higher value by our intellectual mind, because of course we all think we are geniuses and wouldn't choose to pay attention to something that isn't valuable *cough*stripper*cough*. The reticular activation system in pickup artist terms and use can be used to make her feel as if she sees value in you, on the opener.

    This is what the hover stimulates and the process it mimics. And it doesn't have to be a "hover", what I do now is stop and pretend to be texting, right near her, until I catch her noticing me in her peripheral vision, with my peripheral vision, I then turn AS IF she noticed me and say "oh hey, hi" then open. Versus walking in directly from across the room as an obvious pickup artist or "confronter" of some sort, I just noticed her notice me so I said hello, then I noticed something about her, and I am off and running.

    When formhandle, crablouse and I developed the early stages of this stuff back in the early 2000s as paimai, no one got it. I simplified it with "the hover", but the name got dumb knee jerk reactions of course of "that's creepy, let me reword it and steal it a year from now". Now people are trading it behind the scenes like its a secret hologram card of Jose Canseco or something.

    The principle is fairly simple though, don't burst in, frame the interaction "as if" she noticed you, and you noticed that, and something about her, that got you talking to her.

    This is mostly a day game or small quiet lounge or bar thing of course. (P.S Anyone doing loud noisy dance club game exclusively is missing out anyway. None of the best guys when referring to "club game" are actually doing club game, it's garbage, we mean lounges and night spots, not speaker blaster extremo vibrate your fillings out of your head clubs.)


    Gun
    How I cold approach pickup women. - How I control women in relationships.

  • #2
    Awesome! There's a lot of ways to do this. Smartphone is the easiest by far, but if you're at a bar you can be looking at their drink selection or looking for the bartender. If you're sitting down, you can be looking towards the door as if you're expecting someone. Both of these are nice because they allow you to pass your eyes over your target without seeming like you're looking at her, or to check out multiple women.

    I think a lot of guys do this subconsciously already. The only difference with AFCs is that they try to be sneaky about it. They'll bend over their drink, their phone in their face, and occasionally glance around. If instead you lean back, relaxed, like you own the place, and just let your eyes wonder everywhere without focusing on any one thing, then you won't look like a creep.
    ~Tubarao
    fuzzyandoj.com
    www.crushingpavement.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Gunwitch. I've had trouble with the hover because she doesn't look at me. But I didn't get that they could just be looking at me out of their periphial vision. That makes a ton more sense.

      What do you consider a valid blowout. There are times a chick is giving me one word answers or like the what do you watch on t.v question she'll say to me "I don't watch t.v."
      In my opinion she's blowing me out most of the time.

      But there was this one time a chick was walking away and I asked her if she wanted to get coffee. And she was then all over me haha.

      As well I've been buying a lot of dvd's on sitcoms that are popular at the moment because I haven't watched a lot of tv. Is there any advice you could give on relating to women with this stuff. I think you gave one example on Family Guy. Something like Why hasn't peters wife divorced him. Any tips? Maybe this is gonna take a little experimentation on my part though.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Gunwitch View Post
        When formhandle, crablouse and I developed the early stages of this stuff back in the early 2000s as paimai, no one got it. I simplified it with "the hover", but the name got dumb knee jerk reactions of course of "that's creepy, let me reword it and steal it a year from now". Now people are trading it behind the scenes like its a secret hologram card of Jose Canseco or something.
        laughter.gif

        Comment


        • #5
          I do this by mingling my way through all the girls. (Having an ever increasing effect on each girl I talk to after the first, since girls auto-detect when new boy-girl-links are about to form. I was never able to explain reason for this snowball effect of rising attraction before, so thanks a lot for this thread!)

          Oh, and I do a different (yet similar effect) thing when finding very hot girls in parties.
          Loves: Shy Girl-coding into Starry-eyed Extroversion, spamming Open-loops and Mini-cold-reads and lots of light kino.
          Hates: Putting pressure on others. Things that feel 'brainy'.

          Comment


          • #6
            This is brilliant, I've also written about this so sorry if I inadvertently broke copyrights

            One remark though, I would try to avoid using the phone as a clutch as it is the go-to move when I (and many people) feel socially inadequate and try to mask it. I think people can see through it. Best is to socialise with someone - even geeks and ugly girls, instead, or ideally friends of the hot girls (it's also the best way that hot girls will open you, two birds in one stone).
            "I'm the kind of guy you don't want to bring home to mom. Cuz I'd fuck your mom."

            "I don't have a dirty mind, I have a sexy imagination"

            Comment


            • #7
              The Pre-Approach Invitation Male Approach Invitation has been a brain breaker indeed. How do I make a subtle approach invitation so that the girl will give me an approach invitation??

              Originally posted by Gunwitch View Post
              And it doesn't have to be a "hover", what I do now is stop and pretend to be texting, right near her, until I catch her noticing me in her peripheral vision, with my peripheral vision, I then turn AS IF she noticed me and say "oh hey, hi" then open.
              If you explain it this way it is actually very easy to understand. Thanks for the clarification. So basically you just show up, doing your thing (texting, pinging or whatever) and you open after she noticed you. Easy.
              "I eat her ice cream, she eat my ice cream cone." - Lil' Wayne

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wolfpack View Post
                The Pre-Approach Invitation Male Approach Invitation has been a brain breaker indeed. How do I make a subtle approach invitation so that the girl will give me an approach invitation??



                If you explain it this way it is actually very easy to understand. Thanks for the clarification. So basically you just show up, doing your thing (texting, pinging or whatever) and you open after she noticed you. Easy.

                Yeah there are TONS of ways to do it. I can't give away the store, but a quick example of a more complex one I will often use in loud dance clubs is another poorly named (for marketing purposes) technique I call "loser dancer".

                I go up to the hottest most intimidating chick in the place, I am talking like 6'1'' bikini model dressed for the Oscars shit here. I tell her "hey my friends over there bet me that you would never dance with me no matter what, please help me prove them wrong".

                Every time, they take me on the dance floor and are totally slutty and gyrating all over me.

                I watch for other chicks to notice this, they think I know this intimidating "alpha chick" this "social 10" and walked right up and got her fuckin twerking my dick and rubbing me all sexy. Those girls I see watching, I go approach later on, and open and hook like I'm Brad Pitt.

                I got those chicks attention, without trying, and got them thinking positive dominant masculine thoughts about me that aren't even true, pre approach.

                Like fishing with dynamite after that.

                All at the expense of one chick, who isn't even MY 10, just a social acceptable image of a 10, thinking I am a loser, I have several of the hottest chicks in the place as easy open and hook prospects. Works for me.



                Gun
                How I cold approach pickup women. - How I control women in relationships.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thx gun but a little more questions :
                  How the hell you catche them using their periphical vision? I have a little idea but want to know your answer too!

                  And for the fact that many use it withc word changing you can chack thisn it is the Hover !!(Look at the end parts)
                  http://fr.scribd.com/doc/62781352/Slow-Opening

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Haha I've been doing this a lot. I've always thought I was being a pussy compared to PUAs, turns out I was using an advanced hologram technique. :P
                    0---: "Oh! He's dashing!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 0--- View Post
                      Haha I've been doing this a lot. I've always thought I was being a pussy compared to PUAs, turns out I was using an advanced hologram technique. :P
                      Designed for pussies

                      TBH, when I approach girls directly they hyperventalate(sounds bizarre I know, but they do), so usually I have to make it more innocuous by taking excrutiatingly small steps towards my introduction. So, you kinda have to be chill in the way you approach and gauge how much impact you are having and make sure to dial it back if its too much.
                      The better you are at getting tension right off the bat the more steps your preapproach needs.

                      For example,
                      If I see a truly cute girl across the room, and she is all dressed up, there are a few things I have to consider.
                      i) The makeup makes her look more confident than she is
                      ii) If I end up in front of her she is going to think "this guy is more my type, don't fuck up"
                      iii) She is going to want to check her hair, teeth, adjustment of her blouse, posture mindset, and image projection (cuz she is thinking in a normal night way, not a "night I meet a guy like that" way)
                      iv) The connection she is going to feel is going to send her mind blank for a bit and she might cling for life rafts
                      v) That mentally she wants to have the upper hand or pursuit regarding a guy that is above her usual guys

                      Thats not even all inclusive, but I have to consider all the surrounding contexts, such as how she must address her friends, how she must gain the clues of how to deal with me, and how she might manage a rescue operation for herself before we get started etc. If I don't do that, girls can just flip the fuck out, and they don't like being THAT out of control.

                      So, I have to micro step it.
                      Like, the first time she sees me, she might "regress" into some strange past like state, so the way she "briefly spots" me is important. And as small as that seems, for me its hugely important because if she starts on the wrong foot, she will fuck up every consecutive choice. Then the next micro step might be "how she feels me out", so it might be her kind of hovering her gaze, and if I am just static and ignorant she is gonna make assumptions, so I have to have a few ways I hold myself so that I intruige her or make her patiently wait for the truth (rather than judge me and start auto rejecting herself). The next micro step might be as she adjusts herself or as she scans the room for me (assuming I walked off or was lost in the crowd), this is when she is looking to see if I will recognise her or validate her presence, and if I play this too abrupt she will "pop" and she will sort of give up and go limp, so I need to, be very grazing with my touching looks at her, so that she doesn't get all her info at once but is genuinely turned on a bit.

                      This kind of "smelling him out" process is something dudes generally totally avoid. But if I was to walk in, it will totally blow her mind or ruin it, so I take lots of tiny steps until it seems very natural for her, and she feels very ready to meet me.


                      Keeping super low key like that is where advanced game goes. Otherwise chicks get super confused.
                      So I kind of warm it up from a distance so that this girl will be like "hey I was noticing you, you are a really interesting guy, I like what I saw", and then I'm like "yeah you look like a nice girl too, would you like to come with me, and blah blah blah".
                      Until I get those girls into a place where they sort of confront their fear or anxiety of me I don't go too direct and that helps get that kind of fruitful attitude from the girl rather than them shutting down, and they will progress things rather than make me do all the work whilst they stand their jaw agape.

                      :P
                      Hot girls need that especially.
                      So, I usually find that I can't approach the girl directly, as it is often not something you can plow you way into.

                      My point is, that there is more sensitive stuff like that ahead, rather than trumpetting your way up to her etc, and also it is waaaaaay harder to do these tiny things than you would imagine, cuz for one thing you need to think fast, have a great memory and do it all second nature.
                      "Hovering" isn't merely a skilless thing, there is as much nuance to it as the nuances to touch. And just like grabbing a girl early in foreplay shows that you are a newb, the same thing applies in the introduction. The more you "mature" the introduction, the more pure the sync you get with the girl, and the more pure the sync the more you have to know precisely how to lead her. The same is true of sex of course, and the more you remove that go for the kill yet retain high arousal the more finely tuned it becomes and the more you can do with the little things.

                      Anyways, the finer the foreplay of the approach, the less immediately direct it is, and the less trance inducing (which is good because clarity helps her make logistical adjustments that can help you).
                      And if you keep this preapproach forplay crisp enough, you can actually get a girl to follow you because she naturally is curious and wants to, and when you are doing that, approaching is almost unnecessary because her attraction is so mutual that you guys just sync up as you meet and where you go, she goes.

                      Thats crazy nuanced though. My only point is the excrutiating detail :P
                      Because you actually don't "directly" approach at all when you are being skillful.
                      Like ij says, he mingles, and the girls get swept up into that, rather than him having a "balls out" approach he just responds to her presence when he notices her smelling him out.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Cozy thats some interesting considerations!!

                        Do you ever make yourself like really soft or 'mellow' near girls? (I have no good word for it actually.)
                        Loves: Shy Girl-coding into Starry-eyed Extroversion, spamming Open-loops and Mini-cold-reads and lots of light kino.
                        Hates: Putting pressure on others. Things that feel 'brainy'.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          He says that this is for day game (forcing AI's), although Teevster has mentioned in one of his guides that he hovers. Any thoughts about that? Hovering in night game?
                          The Qlue, simple perspectives on life.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Qlue View Post
                            He says that this is for day game (forcing AI's), although Teevster has mentioned in one of his guides that he hovers. Any thoughts about that? Hovering in night game?

                            You can open or say hi, shake hands or high five a dude/or girl, close to the hot girl targeted...


                            You could dance close to the girl, if you do it too long and don't open you may become "old furniture"..
                            Sexting, my unique natural game, aggressive dance floor seductions, 15-20 minutes hook ups in clubs. Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a club type environment, check out my blog and youtube clubbing channel:

                            www.dancefloorseduction.com









                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by thecostofsuccess View Post
                              Designed for pussies

                              TBH, when I approach girls directly they hyperventalate(sounds bizarre I know, but they do), so usually I have to make it more innocuous by taking excrutiatingly small steps towards my introduction. So, you kinda have to be chill in the way you approach and gauge how much impact you are having and make sure to dial it back if its too much.
                              The better you are at getting tension right off the bat the more steps your preapproach needs.

                              For example,
                              If I see a truly cute girl across the room, and she is all dressed up, there are a few things I have to consider.
                              i) The makeup makes her look more confident than she is
                              ii) If I end up in front of her she is going to think "this guy is more my type, don't fuck up"
                              iii) She is going to want to check her hair, teeth, adjustment of her blouse, posture mindset, and image projection (cuz she is thinking in a normal night way, not a "night I meet a guy like that" way)
                              iv) The connection she is going to feel is going to send her mind blank for a bit and she might cling for life rafts
                              v) That mentally she wants to have the upper hand or pursuit regarding a guy that is above her usual guys

                              Thats not even all inclusive, but I have to consider all the surrounding contexts, such as how she must address her friends, how she must gain the clues of how to deal with me, and how she might manage a rescue operation for herself before we get started etc. If I don't do that, girls can just flip the fuck out, and they don't like being THAT out of control.

                              So, I have to micro step it.
                              Like, the first time she sees me, she might "regress" into some strange past like state, so the way she "briefly spots" me is important. And as small as that seems, for me its hugely important because if she starts on the wrong foot, she will fuck up every consecutive choice. Then the next micro step might be "how she feels me out", so it might be her kind of hovering her gaze, and if I am just static and ignorant she is gonna make assumptions, so I have to have a few ways I hold myself so that I intruige her or make her patiently wait for the truth (rather than judge me and start auto rejecting herself). The next micro step might be as she adjusts herself or as she scans the room for me (assuming I walked off or was lost in the crowd), this is when she is looking to see if I will recognise her or validate her presence, and if I play this too abrupt she will "pop" and she will sort of give up and go limp, so I need to, be very grazing with my touching looks at her, so that she doesn't get all her info at once but is genuinely turned on a bit.

                              This kind of "smelling him out" process is something dudes generally totally avoid. But if I was to walk in, it will totally blow her mind or ruin it, so I take lots of tiny steps until it seems very natural for her, and she feels very ready to meet me.


                              Keeping super low key like that is where advanced game goes. Otherwise chicks get super confused.
                              So I kind of warm it up from a distance so that this girl will be like "hey I was noticing you, you are a really interesting guy, I like what I saw", and then I'm like "yeah you look like a nice girl too, would you like to come with me, and blah blah blah".
                              Until I get those girls into a place where they sort of confront their fear or anxiety of me I don't go too direct and that helps get that kind of fruitful attitude from the girl rather than them shutting down, and they will progress things rather than make me do all the work whilst they stand their jaw agape.

                              :P
                              Hot girls need that especially.
                              So, I usually find that I can't approach the girl directly, as it is often not something you can plow you way into.

                              My point is, that there is more sensitive stuff like that ahead, rather than trumpetting your way up to her etc, and also it is waaaaaay harder to do these tiny things than you would imagine, cuz for one thing you need to think fast, have a great memory and do it all second nature.
                              "Hovering" isn't merely a skilless thing, there is as much nuance to it as the nuances to touch. And just like grabbing a girl early in foreplay shows that you are a newb, the same thing applies in the introduction. The more you "mature" the introduction, the more pure the sync you get with the girl, and the more pure the sync the more you have to know precisely how to lead her. The same is true of sex of course, and the more you remove that go for the kill yet retain high arousal the more finely tuned it becomes and the more you can do with the little things.

                              Anyways, the finer the foreplay of the approach, the less immediately direct it is, and the less trance inducing (which is good because clarity helps her make logistical adjustments that can help you).
                              And if you keep this preapproach forplay crisp enough, you can actually get a girl to follow you because she naturally is curious and wants to, and when you are doing that, approaching is almost unnecessary because her attraction is so mutual that you guys just sync up as you meet and where you go, she goes.

                              Thats crazy nuanced though. My only point is the excrutiating detail :P
                              Because you actually don't "directly" approach at all when you are being skillful.
                              Like ij says, he mingles, and the girls get swept up into that, rather than him having a "balls out" approach he just responds to her presence when he notices her smelling him out.
                              THIS.

                              I've been working on this for the last few weeks, of course a little bit different, but still along the same lines of piquing her interest and getting her attention without trying.

                              Last night a girl bar tender I talked to made me take her phone number down.. Two night before that, I met a bunch of girls and one came home with me.. I didn't truly cold approach any of them. I simply mingled like ij talks about, then I let all the girls smell me out while I acted cool and chatted with the bartenders and met some people, then I calmly moved around and chatted with girls that interested me..
                              In Ictu Oculi

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