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  • #16
    RSD are (is?) heavy handed. They are the Wile E. Coyote of pickup. They need to paint everything out.

    Skimming this thread, I was just thinking: You just need to fractionate.

    By asking the question: "Should I end the friendship?" you've positioned yourself where you could rather drive it into the dump with uncalibrated fractionation, with excellent learning potential.

    This is good; it means that you are willing to walk away.

    I have sort of a circle I use:

    1) State your business: I think you're cute and I want to be with you, I think you have beautiful eyes and I want to lick them, I want to lick your anus.

    2) Given a bad response, pull back. This is the only time I would actually advocate saying something like "I'm just kidding" (unless it is obviously not something you'd do normally. I never do, but I never need to.)

    3) Wait until it seems like a good idea to bring it up again. If you want until the sun explodes (and you might), that's fine. You need to be fine with losing.

    In 1) it is important that whatever you say is deemed acceptable but forward. Not excessive. Acceptable but forward.

    If she says "Oh, I don't think of you like that", you pull back and just let whatever happen.

    Obviously, when you get a good response on 1) you just keep going. Reassess.

    The importance of this is the idea of fractionating it. If she has accepted you being forward before, she will understand you are a person who "is forward". This gives you a whole new playing field. Making your intentions know and at the same time showing a willingness to go for it is gold. The fact that you're showing you will back off when needed what makes this a beautiful circle, because all of a sudden it revolves around your desire, availability and understanding.

    I have a vague memory of writing a lot of fractionation and trying to make sense of it before it became muscle memory. I still think it might be one of the holy grails.

    Getting this right the first (or second (or third)) time isn't easy. But think of fractionation like a rubber band. You are stretching it, almost to its breaking point. The next time, it will stretch a little further. People are like rubber bands. Or they tell you to just fuck off. You need to be willing to take the "I have no idea what the fuck you're doing, please go away." Doubly so if you are long time friends. But fractionation also works because you are friends. This has to do with balancing investment.

    People in the community don't often talk about fractionation, or, when they do, they don't go to lengths to describe it.

    My guess is that this is because most people who are successful either consider it a microcorrection; "something you do for a second in field"---a "gambit", or they are unaware that they need it. Perhaps they don't even need it. There was a time in "my carreer" where I was convinced that fractionation is the end-all of pickup.

    I would say you need to do what anybody really needs to do:

    1) Show you intention.
    2) Make yourself attainable.
    3) Fractionate.

    Put something in, get something back. Convert it into what you want. Walk away when it fails. Or else, just rinse and repeat.
    iGNITE Mobile Dating: The Definite Guide to Meeting Girls using Tinder and Snapchat
    PM me for a free, no strings attached copy.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by COCPORN View Post
      RSD are (is?) heavy handed. They are the Wile E. Coyote of pickup. They need to paint everything out.

      Skimming this thread, I was just thinking: You just need to fractionate.

      By asking the question: "Should I end the friendship?" you've positioned yourself where you could rather drive it into the dump with uncalibrated fractionation, with excellent learning potential.

      This is good; it means that you are willing to walk away.

      I have sort of a circle I use:

      1) State your business: I think you're cute and I want to be with you, I think you have beautiful eyes and I want to lick them, I want to lick your anus.

      2) Given a bad response, pull back. This is the only time I would actually advocate saying something like "I'm just kidding" (unless it is obviously not something you'd do normally. I never do, but I never need to.)

      3) Wait until it seems like a good idea to bring it up again. If you want until the sun explodes (and you might), that's fine. You need to be fine with losing.

      In 1) it is important that whatever you say is deemed acceptable but forward. Not excessive. Acceptable but forward.

      If she says "Oh, I don't think of you like that", you pull back and just let whatever happen.

      Obviously, when you get a good response on 1) you just keep going. Reassess.

      The importance of this is the idea of fractionating it. If she has accepted you being forward before, she will understand you are a person who "is forward". This gives you a whole new playing field. Making your intentions know and at the same time showing a willingness to go for it is gold. The fact that you're showing you will back off when needed what makes this a beautiful circle, because all of a sudden it revolves around your desire, availability and understanding.

      I have a vague memory of writing a lot of fractionation and trying to make sense of it before it became muscle memory. I still think it might be one of the holy grails.

      Getting this right the first (or second (or third)) time isn't easy. But think of fractionation like a rubber band. You are stretching it, almost to its breaking point. The next time, it will stretch a little further. People are like rubber bands. Or they tell you to just fuck off. You need to be willing to take the "I have no idea what the fuck you're doing, please go away." Doubly so if you are long time friends. But fractionation also works because you are friends. This has to do with balancing investment.

      People in the community don't often talk about fractionation, or, when they do, they don't go to lengths to describe it.

      My guess is that this is because most people who are successful either consider it a microcorrection; "something you do for a second in field"---a "gambit", or they are unaware that they need it. Perhaps they don't even need it. There was a time in "my carreer" where I was convinced that fractionation is the end-all of pickup.

      I would say you need to do what anybody really needs to do:

      1) Show you intention.
      2) Make yourself attainable.
      3) Fractionate.

      Put something in, get something back. Convert it into what you want. Walk away when it fails. Or else, just rinse and repeat.
      Fractionation is a term based in hypnosis and is more simple than you make it here.

      It's a pattern of intensity and stillness. What you talk about here is just showing interest and backing off. Yes this does work as a loss of attention/affection/pleasure is far more powerful than continued amounts of such feelings.

      Such talk about high pressure in the way that you frame it is challenging to come across. When you tell a girl she is cute and you are interested, there is a lot of pressure on her. For the man that has success in this strategy I respect greatly, but feel that is beneficial to know that there are more options than just this and the implications are high reward yet high risk here.
      -Supernova

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Beckstar101 View Post
        Ok now I understand that I acted like a big idiot and wont work and even if it works it doesnt seems to be a pleasure. However I feel I also need to defent myself a bit. If I turn around the role play I also see that's not nice from her what she does. She made me constantly jealous and horny with her stories. Most of the time she is telling me her crazy sex stories.
        If she does tell you her crazy sex stories, she'll probably benefit somehow from doing so. She might enjoy talking about them with someone she feels secure with. She might get horny from the idea of you getting horny and her not allowing you to act on your horniness (like a dominance play thing). She might just enjoy making people feel bad for no apparent reason (in which case I would refrain from spending time with her, really).

        I did have an interesting situation a few weeks ago in which I was driving home from my favourite pub with my secondary woman and for some reason wasn't really in the mood for sex (or so I thought). Since she in turn was, she kept teasing me to overcome my own inner obstacles up to the point when she took some blankets from her bed and told me to sleep in the bed she would sleep on the couch. I felt so weird about it (it was her flat after all) that it helped me overcome some weird thoughts that had prevented me from feeling into my own horniness. Interesting enough, we had quite crazy sex afterwards which I really enjoyed. So there's a very low chance she's trying to help you overcome your own inner obstacles with the whole telling you about sexual experiences stuff.

        A side note: a lot of people think they can "make" other people jealous, but the core of jealousy must always be already inside of the one you'd like to "make jealous" or it won't work. So she's not making you jealous really but playing on what is already there. You can stop seeing her alltogether so she cannot make you jealous anymore but it won't help overcoming the situation that any new woman you encounter (or any man, for that matter) will be able to play on your inner fears as long as you'll have the core problem inside.

        Jester
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        • #19
          Originally posted by ijjjji View Post
          This is worth trying out. In my understanding the core principle behind it is to pull her power over sex away. When you say for example you are like my little sister you "frame" her as a female that you like but you dont have interest in sex. That remembers me somehow about the theory of juggler where he puts "imaginary obstacles" to maintain the tension.

          @Jester: The thing with the jealous is right. I'm jealous to some degree and she triggers it. To the point with the why she does it: I dont believe she just likes to see me suffering but I also got the feeling that she gets some pleasure out of it, why ever it is...

          The missunderstanding of the attraction process may be the biggest problem. - I make a distinction between creating attraction via cold approach and situations like I'm now. I dont see any real seduction process there. We are friends in the longterm and know each very well so I never tried to use any seduction stuff. I sometimes tested out behaviours but as as said I see there a difference. Because the one is with women I dont know the other is with girls I know really well and want to sleep with. I always thought the rules cannot be applied here.

          But I really need your help to understand that because I was running into several times the last few years.
          I had already 3 "friendships" with girls where I ended because the girls were not willing to take the next step. I always beliefed and stated: when we connect and understand us so well why can we not go a step further? We share every secret, every thought. You have a stronger bond to me then to the guys you are sleeped with the last time. So why dont we sleeping with another. It really makes me sick that I cannot understand this......

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Beckstar101 View Post
            ...I make a distinction between creating attraction via cold approach and situations like I'm now. I dont see any real seduction process there. We are friends in the longterm and know each very well so I never tried to use any seduction stuff. I sometimes tested out behaviours but as as said I see there a difference. Because the one is with women I dont know the other is with girls I know really well and want to sleep with. I always thought the rules cannot be applied here.
            And so they are not attracted to you in that way. why is this strange to you?

            Originally posted by Beckstar101 View Post
            ... I always beliefed and stated: when we connect and understand us so well why can we not go a step further? We share every secret, every thought. You have a stronger bond to me then to the guys you are sleeped with the last time. So why dont we sleeping with another. It really makes me sick that I cannot understand this...
            Sex is not the "next step" considering the direction in which you've been moving. Also, your mother, your sister, and your best male friend understand and know you pretty well. It doesn't mean you should have sex with them. Seduction is different. Not that you can't have casual, maintenance sex (or just curiosity sex) with your friends. I have and it wasn't the most memorable either. I found that getting drunk together helps with getting over the dual role dissonance. Still there must be something in you that turns your frinds off sexually (possibly scares them off?). You seem to think it's all them so it's hard to say what you could change.

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            • #21
              Sase basically pointed it out quite obviously: if sex would be the "next logical step" after you found you like someone a lot, it would also apply to close family and friends which for most people doesn't apply (plus it's illegal on the family part, at least in my country). Sexual attraction is somewhat different from emotional connection, and while it seems to have some connections on a basic level, it doesn't necessarily correlate. In fact, the correlation for many people at least long-term seems to be a negative one: the more you get to know someone, the less sexual attraction there is.

              I believe that the cause of this is mostly because most people I know have only experienced one kind of sexuality which is the adventurous type, meaning you're feeling quite different from your sexual partner and the difference and the difficulty of establishing common ground (with your bodies and your mind) does seem attractive. After you get to know each other better, the adventure aspect fades so most people feel less attracted to each other. There's another type of sexuality that has a lot to do with the feeling of home, of belonging, and this one draws from a feeling of knowing each other well. Usually people are dissatisfied with just the home one (or don't know how to find pleasure in it) so they will seek new adventurous experiences and lose interest in someone they've already "used up" as an adventure partner. It is why good friends will sometimes agree on some sexual exploration with you, it's usually less exciting (since you already know each other which lessens the adventure part) but it can be quite pleasureable anyway if you learn to enjoy the belonging type of sexuality.

              As I wrote earlier, you do not "create" attraction, all you can really do is remove the obstacles in your own mind and (if she trusts you enough) help her remove hers.

              Jester
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              • #22
                -I posted that link as an intro to beginning to understand what attraction is! (Because it helped me back in 2003, when it was originally posted.)
                -NOT as a 'DO LIKE THIS AND YOU WILL GET LAID'.
                -And please ignore 2nd half of the post.
                Loves: Shy Girl-coding into Starry-eyed Extroversion, spamming Open-loops and Mini-cold-reads and lots of light kino.
                Hates: Putting pressure on others. Things that feel 'brainy'.

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                • #23
                  I've had female friends that would act visibly and verbally repulsed by me and then when they were drunk grab on my dick and shit so stranger things have happened but you have oneitis cause you're being a pussy and not collecting leads. Game = 101.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Supernova View Post
                    Fractionation is a term based in hypnosis and is more simple than you make it here.

                    It's a pattern of intensity and stillness. What you talk about here is just showing interest and backing off. Yes this does work as a loss of attention/affection/pleasure is far more powerful than continued amounts of such feelings.

                    Such talk about high pressure in the way that you frame it is challenging to come across. When you tell a girl she is cute and you are interested, there is a lot of pressure on her. For the man that has success in this strategy I respect greatly, but feel that is beneficial to know that there are more options than just this and the implications are high reward yet high risk here.
                    I went on to Wile E. it myself. (Verbing a cartoon character, way to start a post.)

                    Fractionation is indeed a term from hypnosis, and it is related to "what we do" and "how we do it".

                    In hypnosis (I am only trained at a complete novice level) it is about bringing someone out before going deeper. It is compared to a "rubber band" effect. If you keep pushing, the band will break. If you release for a while and let it rest, it will go further the next time.

                    This is really what I am thinking of when I think about fractionation. It is about getting acceptance for something that might be closing to 4% inside of someone's comfort zone and let it rest. Only to rinse, repeat, and finally get acceptance for something that people would not accept at all, through the magic of incremental acceptance. Every time knowing people's acceptance is going to grow. The reason, is obviously multifold; they will get used to you ("Oh, he's like that"), they will stretch their own limits ("I've never really laughed at a dead MILF joke before"), they will invest ("I didn't care for that fucking guy at first, but now... Now."). You are playing inside people's comfort zone while massively expanding it at the same time.

                    I think there is an art to the "downtime" when fractionating, because it isn't just about waiting, per se. What you communicate while you wait for the rubber band to cool down seems important to me.

                    There is a natural ebb and flow of tension when you're doing this kind of fractionation. And when you look at things in a larger perspective, signalling that you can control the creation and release of tension is obviously great. Fractionation is the technique. Tension control is the irresistible arch that is built on top of it for anyone watching.
                    iGNITE Mobile Dating: The Definite Guide to Meeting Girls using Tinder and Snapchat
                    PM me for a free, no strings attached copy.

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