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The trap of getting stuck in specific forms

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  • The trap of getting stuck in specific forms

    Wrote a blog post on my blog about this yesterday and figured it might have a place here too while reading through some of the latest posts of you guys. This seems to be an issue for many throughout their journeys.

    A good friend of mine who is also my Tai Chi teacher once told me how usually in learning Tai Chi, you're supposed to be practicing certain pre-defined forms for many years before you (possibly) understand the principles behind them. So in his course he's trying to reverse that and teach the principles directly, in ways that anyone can put into practice in daily life. He also demonstrated quite convincingly that although the specific forms you're supposed to learn are nicely designed, they require an opponent to act as expected to a point, and if an opponent knows of the forms and that you'll follow them he can easily find opportunities to beat the shit out of you if he so wishes.

    So I pondered the question whether learning the forms are of any use at all, and figured out that they do serve a purpose: to help you overcome inner blockades by expanding your freedom of movement. At first some of the movements seemed absurdly difficult, but over time you get acustomed to them and you can do them smoothly, it's even relaxing, almost a form of meditation doing them.

    There comes a time, however, when practicing those forms becomes less and less effective, because the freedom of movement they are supposed to give you is already aquired. And now comes the dangerous part, which is linked to identity. If you equal doing those forms to "being a Tai Chi practicioner", and being part of that group is important to you, you'll most probably have a hard time going beyond the forms, and enter something I call "in-tune contact" (sounds much better in German, really).

    Now how is this relevant to the whole seduction thing? Because something very similar seems to happen to many, just exchange Tai Chi forms with PUA routines and all else discussed here. All those routines and tips do have value because they can help you expand your freedom of movement (physically, emotionally, psychologically, ...), but once they serve their educating purpose, they can become trappings that disallow you to enter into "in-tune contact" with other people.

    The fighter who'll blindly follow his practiced movements will sooner or later be overcome because some opponent will work in unexpected ways. Tai Chi mastery (as far as i understand it), is basically about feeling into the opponent, finding remaining blockades in him and then using them to throw him off balance because he won't be able to respond as smoothly there. Same happens in all human interactions to a point, you'll be "attacked" to put your attention on those remaining inner blockades, and hopefully overcome them, until you become more and more pre-defined and more and more able to respond freely to whatever is thrown at you.

    Or, put in other words, it's about expanding who you could possibly be indefinitely by removing inner obstacles that tell you "I could never be X". You use certain forms to overcome those obstacles, but you let go of those forms once they have served their purpose, or you'll have just exchanged one type of prison for another.


    P.S.: I understand some of you don't like me for some reason, but I've let go of my need to be part of this community over the last few months. So accept this as a gift if you may, and be kind enough to simply ignore it if you're not ready to accept its implications.

  • #2
    Yeah, if you
    A) DO IT (sarging new girls regularly) and
    then there is no way to escape improvement & inspiration!

    Its that simple imo. A+B.
    ('Stuck' is when you procrastinate A or B or both.)

    (ProTip - ignoring person attacks can be hard, but you will feel really great/empowered afterwards, if you manage to resist the urge to defend.)


    • #3
      Its called "drills" in most sports
      The idea behind drills is you isolate specific areas to master them one at a time
      So that when you do the whole action again later you do it with the acquired muscle memory of the drill

      Swimming for example people use kickboards and use one arm, or improve kicking, they mix up timing, better their rolling, the streamlined way they enter their hand into the water
      In chess, you do tactical drills, where you use only certain pieces, certain end game ideas, certain openings, until you are good enough at the ideas

      In boxing I do a lot of drills
      Ladder drills, skipping variations, (20m) sprints, stepping patterns, pivots/weaving/slips/ducks
      do different bags, for hand speed, coordination, strength, agility
      I also do muscle building exercises, legs, arms, back, shoulders, chest, abs
      And cardio, to condition

      The point is that you mix all the drilled actions together in sparring

      The thing about taichi, is its a bit like nunchucks or using a chain
      All your hand movements are connected and have consequences upon other hand movements (this is true in boxing to some extent too, blocking techniques have to mix with striking techniques and movements)
      Those connections are taught through the "drills" which are forms, and you cant specifically fight with forms themselves they are just to give you muscle memory and skill in the isolated areas of motion

      The way to isolate and "drill" in seduction is to choose certain things to isolate
      So for example your eye contact - "its on"
      Your tonality - deep and smooth
      Your body language - open and a bit gunslinger/rockstar
      Your way of speaking - organising interesting things up front (front loaded) and being very succinct, purposeful, intriguing

      Your hooks, your escalations, your pulls
      Pre-approach, approach
      Warm, cold, social, mingle

      You work on a select part until you "break it wide open"
      Then you do that with another, and another, until you know how each part is done
      Then you are capable of all areas and combine them together under a broader understanding of how game works in general

      Liberation, freedom, understanding, acceptance
      And optimising the degree to which those things are communicated and expressed

      This is how a man is pragmatic about learning, he doesnt sit around dwelling on how "nothing works"
      He works on piece after piece, assessing it, and then improving it, and you become a great field mechanic doing repairs on the fly
      Noticing what part is off and readjusting it

      But jester, this is where acting morally superior to others is wrong as an approach to getting better


      Because everything needs to improve and be worked on
      And if you moralise and philosophise too much you never do any work on bettering each part
      You just work on your feeling of antipathy and not needing anything (feeding your ego, not all the different parts of your game)
      You need everything to be working FIRST, before you make assumptions about general principle

      Your tai chi master is wrong btw
      Teaching principles in a way anyone can understand is a very vain thing to do
      It is best you learn through practice

      Otherwise you will over simplify and not fully understand

      So for example, in boxing, I drill until I'm so exhausted that my body starts falling apart
      My footwork turns retarded, my guard wants to drop, my positioning suffers, and my breathing is wrong
      I do this so that I can tighten it all up under a huge stamina drain, and train train train, until all those things are right when exhausted
      This is because, it takes a much deeper understanding to KEEP PERFORMING WELL UNDER STRESS
      Than it does to "look good" when you have all the energy in the world

      When you have loads of stamina you can make lots of errors invisible to the naked eye, but that are excessive and detrimental to your stamina without noticing it
      So you train a shit ton, to remove those small inefficiencies
      And in real boxing matches you will be getting to your limit in stamina exhaustion so you have to train to that point too in order to not train too superficially

      So, in pua, most guys train too superficially
      Focusing on general ideas,
      But not under FEAR
      Not under EXPECTATION
      Not under TIME PRESSURE

      Guys who are really good train themselves towards these things
      They dont try to "have it all work so I never need to make an adjustment ever again"
      No, they seek challenges to better understandings of each idea in isolation, slowly building a deeper understanding of the whole as they do

      Thats how you get truly good,
      Not some "stroke of luck"
      You identify weak areas and you solve them

      Where most people, identify a weakness, but due to some fear of how everything works, cant focus on solving that piece
      And in a chicken and egg paradox, they cant get enough knowledge of the pieces to ever get a real look at the whole
      And there are a lot of KJ dudes going around saying they know how pu works in general

      But, its not like youll ever get good, talking vague ideas of general principle at a superficial level


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        I appreciate this input! I find drills to instill a form of relaxed mindfulness that I love. Its why I drill'ify things a bit excessively. Only part in PU I didnt manage to drillify yet, is from when she likes/touches you, until the point where she will follow you anywhere.

    • #4
      First off, I have little experience in actual fighting, so most probably if you were to fight me, you'd easily beat me. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make, I was just trying to use physical stuff to explain psychological stuff I've noticed: that people seem to have a tendency to use those "drills" (as you call them) as the end goal itself, rather than as a tool to expand their possibilities. Like, I'm a Tai Chi master, so I'll have to use "real" Tai Chi movements or people won't recognize me as such anymore. Now take that same concept and put it into any field of learning, you'll find countless examples of people doing exactly that.

      I realize that drilling does work, and I won't question its efficiency. But it fits quite nicely into some concept I call the universal growth cycle, where one part of it is you having to reach desperation of sorts in order to develop further (pretty similar to your description of performing well under stress in some ways). People have different learning styles that work best for them, though, and for me, that's concepts and breakthrough realizations. You can get there by drilling I suppose, but I usually get to these points by (sometimes unconsciously) following that universal growth cycle.

      Like, a few weeks ago, I had this breakthrough insight into what sexuality actually is (or at least could be), and this has helped me tremendously in being able to go about the whole topic in a much more comfortable way. Sure showed definite results in regards to women, and so far they keep coming back.. probably could have gotten there by drilling as well, but why should I when there's another learning style I respond much better to?

      @ijjjji: Thx for that "pro tip", although I've come to a similar conclusion lately. Found that experimenting with heat/cold really helps, like going for a swim in very cold water and realizing how "coldness" is relative, and the problem isn't so much the coldness of the water but that your mind thinks this is a problem and thus your body cramps, leading to your minds expectations to be fulfilled ("I'll get a cold if I swim in cold water" and such). Same concept can be applied to any area of life, it's really very interesting. But I guess you guys all already know this stuff. Have known it for years, but never really experimented fully with it so far, so I really enjoy it atm


      • #5
        i definitely struggle with not evaluating myself and trying to improve like just doing approaches and being satisfied with that and not trying to improve
        but yeah field reports self analysis are super helpful