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  • Neediness management / success measurement

    How do you manage your neediness? I know the general template is work, hobbies, and multiple girls on call. Just wondering what some of you guys do specifically.

    Also, did you hit a point in your PU journey where you feel like you have it handled now? Or is it something you still struggle with.

    For me, the way I measure success is so day-to-day, moment to moment that it's hard not to be tough on myself.

    For example, I haven't been laid for about a week and I feel like "WOW I'm a failure!", "OMG I need to get laid soon or I'm a loser". Yet I've hooked up with 10-15 girls in the last 6mos and had some awesome FB/GF relationships out of those.

    So I guess compared to the average dude I'm doing OK and should have no worries. But comparing to myself, I think "oh I had 2 girls last week, why dont I have any this week?"

    So yeah, we're all on here to pick up women, how do you manage that goal and slow it down to a WANT or an enjoyment instead of a need?

    And how do you measure your success without having to constantly top yourself?

    --

    (on further reflection, maybe I'm asking some of the top guys - do you have dry spells, periods obsessing over one particular girl, feeling like you lost your mojo - or is it possible to hit a level where you're just past that completely?)

  • #2
    For now, try redefine 'success' to time span since previous needy thought: Whenever you think needy, check time and note time span since previous time. See if it is increasing (success).

    (If hormones are driving you too crazy, maybe try a quick fix like heavy gym session or consuming a lot less carbs.)

    Comment


    • youngjd

      youngjd

      commented
      Editing a comment
      Just got back from the GYM! Wow I've been slacking, I forgot how great it feels. Will continue with that.

      I thought high-fat, high-protein, low-carb is optimal for maximizing T - how do the carbs affect hormones?

      Right now I'm eating extremely high-fat (grassfed butter, avocados, olive oil), medium carbs, & protein from low to medium.

      ( If you're doing it all-natural, is it possible increase your T TOO much? I also almost never jerk off, but maybe I should for my own sanity lol)

  • #3
    Originally posted by youngjd View Post
    How do you manage your neediness? I know the general template is work, hobbies, and multiple girls on call. Just wondering what some of you guys do specifically.

    Also, did you hit a point in your PU journey where you feel like you have it handled now? Or is it something you still struggle with.

    For me, the way I measure success is so day-to-day, moment to moment that it's hard not to be tough on myself.

    For example, I haven't been laid for about a week and I feel like "WOW I'm a failure!", "OMG I need to get laid soon or I'm a loser". Yet I've hooked up with 10-15 girls in the last 6mos and had some awesome FB/GF relationships out of those.

    So I guess compared to the average dude I'm doing OK and should have no worries. But comparing to myself, I think "oh I had 2 girls last week, why dont I have any this week?"

    So yeah, we're all on here to pick up women, how do you manage that goal and slow it down to a WANT or an enjoyment instead of a need?

    And how do you measure your success without having to constantly top yourself?

    --

    (on further reflection, maybe I'm asking some of the top guys - do you have dry spells, periods obsessing over one particular girl, feeling like you lost your mojo - or is it possible to hit a level where you're just past that completely?)
    Yes, it feels handled for me, I have no worries of being a loser or something.
    So that should come for you. But it is a bit early for you to feel that way.
    You feel a bit green to me. Good though.
    But like you rely a bit on stuff you don't know you are doing, so you kind of aren't exactly sure what you are doing.
    That guess work part of it is what is giving you that feel.

    Sort of like doing math without showing proofs, rather than being rigorous and doing proofs for your work.
    So you do stuff but you don't register it in your mind or internalise an understanding of what you did.

    ALSO, it will help to see a REAL skilled guy infield (not grod or his mentor *his mentor seems a bit ... eh... presence wise*), like teevs or myself cuz once you see top level, it is like a mirror that shows where you are at.
    Cuz guys who really pull sort of "break brains" with their actions. It affects and influences you to see it.

    It is the "breaking brains" part of it that really gives you confidence. Cuz you know you can DESTROY sceptics. Like there is no weird thing like psychics who cant recreate it under controls.
    You recreate it under controls, while people are watching, and their brains totally crush into mush.

    Once YOUR OWN BRAIN crushes into mush from seeing it you will "get it".


    My first experience getting brain mushed was going out with sleazy the first night, he pulled in like the first 5 mins of us walking in. And there were no hot girls, only this one borderline girl.
    I reach out to open her sort of half assedly, but he comes from behind me and commits, pulls her in like 30 seconds, and boom they are out the door. At first I couldnt compute wtf had happened, so I am double taking. And the rest of the night it messed with my head. Cuz I was like wait wtf was that? But then I started to notice that no one around me even saw it happen, and I started remembering that I'd done the same thing before, and that in a way I was for the first time experiencing seeing myself from the outside.
    And I was like FUUUUCK IM LIKE THAAAAT!!!! And my mind was blown at just how "invisible" effective seduction can be. I call it invisible escalation. It is when you are bouncing back and forth on the girls feedback and you rapidly escalate to what she is good with. I have a LR up that shows it exactly actually.

    Guys who are "real" and affect people and break brains, they do these invisible escalations that will crush your brain until you can see in high speed.
    Once you see in high speed, then you are never fooled by who has game or who doesnt, cuz, guys who are more intermediate are visibly slower than the girls they interact with and miss signals and feedback.



    When you see this stuff though, its a double edged sword. You either choose to dive into it and just do it with girls. Orrrrr you try to compute wtf is going on.
    And trying to compute it will make your mind go in circles, until you get mule kicked out.

    Its kind of volatile (true game is)

    And you kinda just learn to deal with its volatility. You never master the volatility.
    But... you can operate at its speed totally in sync with it and you become this "passion" guy that girls flock around.
    Teevs has this going on more than me at the moment (I think)
    I still have it but I'm trying to master the volatility, not ride it and guide it.


    I'm extremely close to mastering the volatility.
    But you dont need to master the volatility to feel you have game DONE
    Its more like you master volatility to deal with the "itch"
    And the itch is this kind of need to conform to chicks or prove to chicks you dont need to conform
    Its this thing where you care more about what fucking the girl says rather than other stuff,
    But its not for other guys, its for the girls
    Cuz girls inject the itch into guys with game


    If you try to master volatility like I am, you have to get fully humiliated by that itch
    Like girls first inject the itch, then it grows into a full judgement on your character, disgust at you, and them feeling superior, then raging out
    I'm sure girls have some rational reason for that, but as a guy you won't know what that logic is, you just have to deal with it from wiithin it, cuz girls only target certain guys wiith this itch.
    They never will target some chump.

    Its like, chumps cant take their full weight, so girls wont lean on them, so they pierce it into the only guys who can. And make the point that it only matters with him, disguising the fact its a more general desire or feeling of wanting something.
    So it is very weird.

    But like mastering that volatility, you get humiliated by chicks full weight.
    It is beyond maddening. Like... its bezerk.

    And you have to let go of arrogance and such, to start to understand girls even while prodding you with all their issues.
    And this is the only way to slow down the volatility and break up the super fast invisible escalations so they are slower and more deep discussions.
    Rather than choices to either tool her or let her tool you.



    I dunno, I met with this girl this last weekend... it was so... different...
    (shakes it off)
    There is mystery in how it all works.

    But now that Ive gone through the humiliating phase of slowing down that "do or do not there is no try" part of it, and am starting to NOT have women give me shit when leaning fully on me
    Womens reactions are VERY STRANGE
    Like very floaty.

    So a girl will like, float near you and twirl, and glint a smile.
    It feels better than the syncing with passion stuff, but... not so much better, cuz it has many downsides too Im still working on.



    What I'm saying is... once you know about the brain crushing shit, you operate in a world only girls know
    Guys opinions including your own become irrelevant, cuz you know EXACTLY the feelings that trigger around getting laid
    You also know how to affect people with your presence properly

    Only a few guys are the real deal like this, and their is a gravitas they have they all recognise in each other
    You'll get there
    Maybe you really only need to see a real dude in action
    Maybe go see bachus up in canada? Or go see skills in florida? (he should have it/I sense it in him at times)




    Its something utterly unfakeable.
    You get to know it. Its when you have THE CHOICE to do what you want with women.

    You arent mr. goodguy that all women love... nonono... you just are past their initial judgemental stuff so they are willing to deal with you in more cases than not.
    Its a feeling you get to know.


    Ok, so that said
    Measurement is a personal thing
    I personally try to become more "dry" as opposed to "wet"
    Wet seductions are the kinds of seduction that slip and slide with invisible escalation, and are half unconscious for both you and her
    Dry seductions are with her fullest faculties awake as you are fully awake dealing with her 1 to 1
    I personally measure myself that way cuz wetter seductions are easier "quicker"
    While drier seductions are harder and "stick" a lot more, so your sticking points will be very obvious and wont easily fix, it takes time until it flows
    But once it does... whoaaaaaaaaa

    But that said you also asked
    how to manage your neediness
    I have a saying "only the strong can allow themselves to be seen as weak" "the weak reach for beliefs and confirmation in order to push themselves on others"

    I just reduce neediness by remembering that I don't need some confirmation bias on my side to make me who I am. I am who I am regardless of anyone believing it or not. If people get stressed out that Im not proving stuff that is their issue not mine. I will take exactly my own time to do what I believe is the right choice.
    And when my body asks for these proofs, I remind it of truths that make it humble and I breathe and calm it down.

    Guys who want to peck at you cuz of their own insecurities, are not guys you want to tie your raft to.
    Guys with skills, they generally wont ever peck at you, except in one fair way, "are you slacking off and sinking into the abyss of shit where you wont game anymore actively"

    So by this standard you must REMAIN ACTIVE
    But you are allowed to tie your raft to what you want to
    And now and then you should show that your knife is sharp

    But beyond that, its not greatly important. But we hope that we all are building something of worth that will inrich others once shared.
    Like back in the day, I shared a ton on tension which inriched others, (I think 60yoc most took up my tension ideas, and teevs got a few routines from it)
    Now days I am working on a hugely complex thing, that will take forever to finish, but my point is, I'm not drifting doing nothing.

    So if you are inriching things in the background, you are active, your knife can cut, you know about the volatility and can brain break people
    That shows you have the integrity of a seducer and are not some faker clown or sad guy who gave it all up



    Typically this is shortened to "are you in field getting laid"
    But that isnt necessarily the real standard, its more just the standard for guys who don't know how to mix it up with girls
    Cuz once you mix it up with girls, there is an easiness to it, only the best know of
    Its like a devestating ease with which you get laid
    Like you just raise a finger, beckon a girl over and tell her we are leaving and its done


    Stuff guys on the outside would never understand or pull off.


    But eventually the devestating ease gets to a limit. I mean, how do you improve after you can just sit next to a girl and she starts kissing your neck, and crawls up into your lap, no words said?
    So, once you reach limits like that, you hit into dissonance...
    You literally can no longer prove yourself by lays without getting bored and annoyed. So you get creative. And thats what the best guys do who are active, they create, they build, and they know how.

    That is why I know you are green.
    You arent creating, and further you are too concerned with other guys thoughts, without having the ability to change the tone with which you approach women, you are always in the high pitched fuckboy tone.
    Which is you signalling you are a fuckboy to get laid.

    Okkkkk... but you arent self aware of it :P
    So your mind has to wrap itself around all this without getting bitterly arrogant.



    Basically.. you are in a place where you risk becoming bitterly arrogant which is about... you realising you are better than many others around you and NOT HAVING AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW TO SOLVE YOUR DISSONANCE

    See, I KNOW I am far better than almost any guy
    I'll whoop a guys ass until he is upside down and seeing the world backwards and babbling
    BUT it doesnt make me bitter or arrogant, like HOW DARE THERE BE NO ONE BETTER TO GIVE ME MY ANSWERS!!!!
    I like the fact many guys are my equals, I like we have different styles, I'm fine with the fact we don't need each other to fix our problems.
    I find it enjoyable.

    Bitter arrogant guys, are often only mediocre, but getting laid a bit, or maaaybe more than others around them
    But they then put all the pressure on "society around them" to soothe their aches and pains
    But dudes who are good at this shit squared away with the aches and pains

    We feel them ALL THE TIME
    Like glass being scratched in the background
    But then we structure better and better ways to game, which calms those aches

    And in that process we calm our shit
    We don't go out arrogant and bitter for one reason, IT IS BAD GAME
    And we'd never commit an act of indulging in bad game LMAO

    We are like fanatical about our choices not being "bad game"
    Itd make us puke to try terrible reactions like that


    Hahaha...

    So yeah, then you just dont act needy cuz the quality of game overrides any need
    And quality of game superceeds any dude asking you for proof of your game or girls forcing you to be needy or whatever

    You gain this kind of "hard as steel" mind
    That can go into extremely cold depths, and be very cutting
    Because, you wont take shit up against quality

    You will make sacrifices for quality
    Which all starts with not succumbing to bitter arrogance and turning stupidly dependent on the outside world to soothe your aches



    You just become independent man
    Like you get a hobby like drinking tea
    And you sit by the harbor with a cup and you drink it and peer out at the horizon, reflecting on life
    And it soothes you, and you can go on to do awesome things
    Knowing they are awesome



    Or at least this is what my view used to be
    I dunno what my view is anymore
    I just chill and react for real
    (shrugs)
    And so I don't as much do all the above

    But its a step in the evolution of the guy mind






    Comment


    • #4
      Cosy already went above and beyond in his reply. Knocked the baseball out of the stadium. I recommend reading it a few times over.

      I don't have much to add to what he said, hmmm. Well, back when I was 17 or 18, and not nearly as effective as I am now. I was obviously getting laid less frequently, and when I did pull some ass, it took a lot more effort to do so. And because of that, sometimes I'd get into some annoying feelings of frustration. So I'd give myself some positive self-talk.

      Nothing too long, complex or woo-woo. Or anything that I felt was untrue at the time. The thing about self-talk is, if your conscious mind, or more importantly, your subconscious mind, feels as though what you're telling yourself is untrue, or unverifiable by past experiences, then it's about as useful as a white crayon. Making no difference whatsoever.

      All I would tell myself was this. . . there's always gonna be another lay. That's it. And it was true for me then, and it's true for you too.

      You've pulled before, you'll pull again. Simple as that. So chin up, and relax. Because there's always gonna be another lay. No use in worrying about a dry-spell, because there's always gonna be another lay. Comforting, isn't it? And by the way, I'm down to meet, if you can make your way, north, up to Canada.

      I'm always down to meet cool guys who're infield, and are already getting results.
      “You know I cant hear none of that spend the night shit... that kumbaya shit”

      Comment


      • youngjd

        youngjd

        commented
        Editing a comment
        "There's always gonna be another lay." Thanks man! I dig the simplicity!

        Whenever I get my next chance to travel, I'll definitely hit you up, damn that would be sick!

    • #5
      Originally posted by youngjd View Post
      .

      For example, I haven't been laid for about a week and I feel like "WOW I'm a failure!", "OMG I need to get laid soon or I'm a loser". Yet I've hooked up with 10-15 girls in the last 6mos and had some awesome FB/GF relationships out of those.

      .
      ^ this mindset is a road trip to unhappiness.... we had a huge discussion i think is in one of bacchaus post, about this stuff... https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/ge...lays-per-month read all the answers/fights etc....


      People get needy:

      post break ups (i suspect you are here, but you deny it to me in pm)

      A girl out of your league

      a girl pulling away (real challenge)

      onitis

      In a relationship when you are going through a crisis you get needy with your partner (women in general will totally punish you for this, when you think you are just being vulnerable, for example lost of a job)

      In relationships when the girl pulls away


      I can talk about neediness for ever cause there are relationships were the girls will push you away and break you enough and then real you back in at the right time and repeat...


      I am from the camp that you should be happy being by yourself without woman at all.... To get to a "rock stage" were you do not get needy, is after getting punch hard by women over and over and over and over were you develop a strong emotional muscle, but unfortunately some dudes go nielistic mra, mgotw and the likes...

      some other use that leverage to get better at pick up...


      as i said in bachaus post on lay count is plenty of balance answers...


      This is also and amazing video, i wonder if tyler reading my stuff lol (i know he is not, but identical of stuff i have been saying, i attribute it to age/lifestage more than copying)







      Sexting, my unique natural game, aggressive dance floor seductions, 15-20 minutes hook ups in clubs. Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a club type environment, check out my blog and youtube clubbing channel:

      www.dancefloorseduction.com









      Comment


      • ijjjji

        ijjjji

        commented
        Editing a comment
        I appreciate you posting these vids. Loved the other owen vid u posted (looks/flower one). This one was actually shit for me though. (Owen always so mixed quality lol.) My issues is that the vid has a single good message early on, and then goes on to pile on layers upon layers of retrospective and introspective crap.... At least for me, those are pure shit mind frames most of the time, due to taking the simple 'action' concept of PU, and turn it into a huge thought cluster/cluster fuck of 'shrink session' and 'soul searching'. But yeah, having standards is the bomb for girls and other social interfacing too. (Its less about actual "screening" imo, and more about making others sense, and then conform to, your high expectations for them.)

      • youngjd

        youngjd

        commented
        Editing a comment
        ijjjji can you give some examples of your standards? and maybe ways that you let others sense them?

        I think it would really help me to explore this concept because I have NO standards when it comes to girls, lol. For real tho...

    • #6
      Apart from what the others already contributed, perhaps ask yourself some tough questions:

      - Who are you trying to impress?
      - How often do you actually enjoy having sex? With whom? On which/whose terms?
      - How much of what you aim for lies totally in your realm of control?
      - What about any woman is truly unique, and what about any woman is but an expression of something more universal that is never fully lost by losing that specific woman?

      Asking these (and other) questions have helped me tremendously to reach these answers:

      - My life is mine, and I don't need to impress anybody but myself. I set my own standards, and I don't care much whether you agree with them or not. Everyone else is entitled to the same right, so no need to fight about what's best "in general for X".

      - In my case, I'm probably on the low end of the spectrum, with about 2-3 times/week (counting spending a night and doing multiple rounds as 1 session here). Doing more (especially if I ejaculate) exhausts me more than it brings me joy. There are weeks in which I can enjoy having sex every single day, or weeks where I don't want to have sex on any day, but that's about the average that has given me joy so far.

      - My own actions do, but the re-actions of the world (and women in that world) you can only influence but never 100% control. I've read a really interesting book called "flawless consulting" where the author wrote how as a consultant you shouldn't derive your own value from the results of your consultation, for there are too many variables you cannot control. Instead, you should focus on doing flawless consulting on your part, so even if things don't go as expected or desired, you know you did the best you could. I think this is a very wise approach to many things.

      - Nowadays I see women I meet and hook up with as unique personifications of something much more eternal. Specific women come and go throughout my life, and it is of no use to become too attached to any of them for if you look at things long-term, sooner or later they'll be leaving (they'll die one day even if they want to stay with you). So it's no use mourning or fearing that any specific woman will leave your life, because it's a fact of life that one day she will. If you truly understand that, you can then appreciate the unique qualities of any woman in your life for what they are, and enjoy them while they last. Something like "Everything passes, everything returns. Enjoy the beauty of the in-between, realizing and accepting its mortality."

      Once you understand how any connection you make in this life will be impermanent, you'll find that those connections usually serve a purpose. People in your life are (often unknowingly) there to teach you, and you'll meet similar people until you have accepted and learned from their teachings. Like, it took me about 10 years to finally accept that I could allow myself to set my own agenda in life, and stick to it regardless of anyone else who complained. Do I have to state that in these years, most women I met behaved in a way basically forcing me to develop this feat? Do I have to add that once I finally did a few months ago, the kind of women (and friends in general) I would now meet have changed a lot, now allowing me to develop further in other areas? People you meet (and especially the annoying ones) are usually teachers in disguise.

      Jester
      Bunterrichten - Alternativen zum Unter-richten:

      Comment


      • #7
        I forgot to mention the water is wet neediness 101, is too have sooooooooo many girls and options (just like women have) that you just not have any time or is difficult to get onitis... But, as devil advocate i have been in situations were i have a lot of girls, but still got onitis cause as i have said before we can get sex, but sometimes is hard to replicate some emotions that just very few women can give you. (i know it sounds crazy and out there hopefully some of you can relate)


        Sexting, my unique natural game, aggressive dance floor seductions, 15-20 minutes hook ups in clubs. Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a club type environment, check out my blog and youtube clubbing channel:

        www.dancefloorseduction.com









        Comment


        • youngjd

          youngjd

          commented
          Editing a comment
          yeah the girl (the one im having probs with) unfortunately is so sexy to me, almost like she has read this forum and applies game lol...she's so seductive in a way i've never seen up til now. so it's hard to imagine another girl with the same qualities.

          plus there's the purely chemical aspect of it, where we have spent LOTS of time + oxytocin bonding over 3-4 months.

          guess my mistake has been trying to hold on to the honeymoon period of the relationship and all those related feelings.

          oneitis yayy

      • #8
        Another thing I just remembered - (self-)expectation is a bitch. Check out the 'CHILD' thing described here, and see if it makes any sense to you: Omeganess / 'you win'

        Comment


        • youngjd

          youngjd

          commented
          Editing a comment
          I have seen that before, really awesome stuff. It does make absolute sense, however it's somewhat hard for me to put into practice consciously. I do remember times where I was like that tho.

          Self-expectation: That's usually what screws with my head, when I remember awesome positions/mindsets & situations I've been in before and wonder why I'm not in it right now.

      • #9
        Great post. Thank you! A lot to digest.

        Originally posted by thecostofsuccess View Post

        Yes, it feels handled for me, I have no worries of being a loser or something.
        So that should come for you. But it is a bit early for you to feel that way.
        You feel a bit green to me. Good though.
        But like you rely a bit on stuff you don't know you are doing, so you kind of aren't exactly sure what you are doing.
        That guess work part of it is what is giving you that feel.
        Very accurate. I rely a ton on intuition & unconscious action because it seems anytime I TRY to be conscious, it fucks me up.


        Sort of like doing math without showing proofs, rather than being rigorous and doing proofs for your work.
        So you do stuff but you don't register it in your mind or internalise an understanding of what you did.

        ALSO, it will help to see a REAL skilled guy infield (not grod or his mentor *his mentor seems a bit ... eh... presence wise*), like teevs or myself cuz once you see top level, it is like a mirror that shows where you are at.
        Cuz guys who really pull sort of "break brains" with their actions. It affects and influences you to see it.

        It is the "breaking brains" part of it that really gives you confidence. Cuz you know you can DESTROY sceptics. Like there is no weird thing like psychics who cant recreate it under controls.
        You recreate it under controls, while people are watching, and their brains totally crush into mush.

        Once YOUR OWN BRAIN crushes into mush from seeing it you will "get it".

        Typically this is shortened to "are you in field getting laid"
        But that isnt necessarily the real standard, its more just the standard for guys who don't know how to mix it up with girls
        Cuz once you mix it up with girls, there is an easiness to it, only the best know of
        Its like a devestating ease with which you get laid
        Like you just raise a finger, beckon a girl over and tell her we are leaving and its done
        Yes! I need to SEE that stuff in action, it will allow my mind to paint the possibilities! It's tough to do so without any tangible "role models" (examples).


        Stuff guys on the outside would never understand or pull off.


        But eventually the devestating ease gets to a limit. I mean, how do you improve after you can just sit next to a girl and she starts kissing your neck, and crawls up into your lap, no words said?
        So, once you reach limits like that, you hit into dissonance...
        You literally can no longer prove yourself by lays without getting bored and annoyed. So you get creative. And thats what the best guys do who are active, they create, they build, and they know how.
        Sounds dope


        That is why I know you are green.
        You arent creating, and further you are too concerned with other guys thoughts, without having the ability to change the tone with which you approach women, you are always in the high pitched fuckboy tone.
        Which is you signalling you are a fuckboy to get laid.
        Accurate. Tough love huh Cosy? Haha. I do feel like I'm in a high pitched tone, not literally, I have good vocal tonality, but my nervousness is apparent when I'm out with the nightlife. It DOES signal "I'm here to get laid"....

        What's a better mindset when going out? "I'm here to have fun?" hmm how about..."I'm here to let people enjoy my energy and vibrance!"


        Okkkkk... but you arent self aware of it :P
        So your mind has to wrap itself around all this without getting bitterly arrogant.

        Basically.. you are in a place where you risk becoming bitterly arrogant which is about... you realising you are better than many others around you and NOT HAVING AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW TO SOLVE YOUR DISSONANCE

        See, I KNOW I am far better than almost any guy
        I'll whoop a guys ass until he is upside down and seeing the world backwards and babbling
        BUT it doesnt make me bitter or arrogant, like HOW DARE THERE BE NO ONE BETTER TO GIVE ME MY ANSWERS!!!!
        I like the fact many guys are my equals, I like we have different styles, I'm fine with the fact we don't need each other to fix our problems.
        I find it enjoyable.

        Bitter arrogant guys, are often only mediocre, but getting laid a bit, or maaaybe more than others around them
        But they then put all the pressure on "society around them" to soothe their aches and pains
        But dudes who are good at this shit squared away with the aches and pains

        We feel them ALL THE TIME
        Like glass being scratched in the background
        But then we structure better and better ways to game, which calms those aches

        And in that process we calm our shit
        We don't go out arrogant and bitter for one reason, IT IS BAD GAME
        And we'd never commit an act of indulging in bad game LMAO

        We are like fanatical about our choices not being "bad game"
        Itd make us puke to try terrible reactions like that
        No worries, I'm not bitter nor arrogant. It's more just...frustration sometimes - when I see what girls do, and I can't have what I want. But I try to think, "oh girls are just like that, they can't help themselves. how can I act in a way that diffuses the (bad, not sexual) tension but keeps the excitement?

        Perhaps focusing on SEXUAL tension will change the atmosphere. Energy can't be removed, only redirected right?

        (Lengthy way to remind myself "be in sexual state" LOL)

        Hahaha...

        So yeah, then you just dont act needy cuz the quality of game overrides any need
        And quality of game superceeds any dude asking you for proof of your game or girls forcing you to be needy or whatever
        What frustrates me is I know I was there several months ago!! I'm trying to find my way back to that solid-like-a-rock quality game



        You gain this kind of "hard as steel" mind
        That can go into extremely cold depths, and be very cutting
        Because, you wont take shit up against quality
        Interesting - care to elaborate on that "steel" mindset?


        You will make sacrifices for quality
        Which all starts with not succumbing to bitter arrogance and turning stupidly dependent on the outside world to soothe your aches

        You just become independent man
        Like you get a hobby like drinking tea
        And you sit by the harbor with a cup and you drink it and peer out at the horizon, reflecting on life
        And it soothes you, and you can go on to do awesome things
        Knowing they are awesome



        Love this part dude, awesome mental picture






        Comment


        • #10
          Originally posted by youngjd View Post
          Great post. Thank you! A lot to digest.Very accurate. I rely a ton on intuition & unconscious action because it seems anytime I TRY to be conscious, it fucks me up.
          Don't be discouraged by that. Try and see, if you can savor it. Believe me when I say this, everybody goes through it.

          It's the process of transitioning from unconscious incompetence to unconscious competence. When learning a new skill, such as seduction you often start off at unconscious incompetence, which basically means sucking ass, at the skill and having no idea why. Then there's conscious incompetence, which is what you described.

          Trying to do something, and then fucking up, and knowing you fucked up. Maybe you even know why / where it went wrong. This is, at least, slightly better and less confusing than having no idea. Then after lots of trial and error, lots of hard work, improvement and maybe even a bit of guidance, you transition into conscious competence.

          This is a good stage, it feels very exciting, due to new possibilities you can start to see, that are within your grasp, and you also get this feeling of payoff and growth. Where you are aware of your actions, you know what you plan to do infield, and then you roll up your sleeves and pull it off correctly.

          Then with more practice, you transition into unconscious competence. Which is this boss phase, where you just do cool shit unconsciously, and as smoothly as a buttered roll.

          Now what's interesting about seduction is this, there are many, many, many levels of unconscious competence. Seriously. It just goes on and on. For example, there's the "inner game" gurus who will go on and on about natural game and state. *cough* most of RSD *cough* They are performing at a of level unconscious competence, but then you have guys like Teevster, the rare few, who will make use of multiple, complex forms of technical game, all at unconscious competence.

          The levels of difference between these two phases is quite staggering, astronomical even. In terms of results, skill-level, and the amount of precision and influence exerted, when infield. And I'm not even exaggerating in the slightest. Now, you might be wondering how one could go, from one level of unconscious competence. . .

          . . . to a higher level? A more powerful, persuasive and effective level of unconscious competence? How can one keep climbing this ladder and leveling up?

          You just start learning something new. For example a new technique or set of technicals, like escalation, state transfer, sexual framing / sex talk, NLP, or whatever. And you start from the bottom once again. This is what is know as a "learning phase" in this community. And it's very important for us.

          You start off consciously or unconsciously incompetent at this new piece of tech, and you work your way up, with practice, grit and dedication, until it's just a part of you. Until you're just smooth as hell, and unconsciously competent when using this technique. Then you can pick another if you like, and start again. It's a continuous cycle. . .
          “You know I cant hear none of that spend the night shit... that kumbaya shit”

          Comment


          • #11
            Originally posted by Bacchus View Post

            Don't be discouraged by that. Try and see, if you can savor it. Believe me when I say this, everybody goes through it.

            It's the process of transitioning from unconscious incompetence to unconscious competence. When learning a new skill, such as seduction you often start off at unconscious incompetence, which basically means sucking ass, at the skill and having no idea why. Then there's conscious incompetence, which is what you described.

            Trying to do something, and then fucking up, and knowing you fucked up. Maybe you even know why / where it went wrong. This is, at least, slightly better and less confusing than having no idea. Then after lots of trial and error, lots of hard work, improvement and maybe even a bit of guidance, you transition into conscious competence.

            This is a good stage, it feels very exciting, due to new possibilities you can start to see, that are within your grasp, and you also get this feeling of payoff and growth. Where you are aware of your actions, you know what you plan to do infield, and then you roll up your sleeves and pull it off correctly.

            Then with more practice, you transition into unconscious competence. Which is this boss phase, where you just do cool shit unconsciously, and as smoothly as a buttered roll.

            Now what's interesting about seduction is this, there are many, many, many levels of unconscious competence. Seriously. It just goes on and on. For example, there's the "inner game" gurus who will go on and on about natural game and state. *cough* most of RSD *cough* They are performing at a of level unconscious competence, but then you have guys like Teevster, the rare few, who will make use of multiple, complex forms of technical game, all at unconscious competence.

            The levels of difference between these two phases is quite staggering, astronomical even. In terms of results, skill-level, and the amount of precision and influence exerted, when infield. And I'm not even exaggerating in the slightest. Now, you might be wondering how one could go, from one level of unconscious competence. . .

            . . . to a higher level? A more powerful, persuasive and effective level of unconscious competence? How can one keep climbing this ladder and leveling up?

            You just start learning something new. For example a new technique or set of technicals, like escalation, state transfer, sexual framing / sex talk, NLP, or whatever. And you start from the bottom once again. This is what is know as a "learning phase" in this community. And it's very important for us.

            You start off consciously or unconsciously incompetent at this new piece of tech, and you work your way up, with practice, grit and dedication, until it's just a part of you. Until you're just smooth as hell, and unconsciously competent when using this technique. Then you can pick another if you like, and start again. It's a continuous cycle. . .
            This ^ is the mystery of game


            Back in 2008 I wrote a crappily written book that tried to approach this topic, called "the mystique of seduction"
            It is about how there is a whole other level of unconscious competence

            And the way I described it was that you need competancy in about a dozen fields beyond technique


            1 - The philosophy that seduction brings you freedom
            2 - That you can only deal with what is possible, not change what is possible, yet the possible is dancing, moving, flexible
            3 - That your level of rapport with women as a whole massively influences everything
            4 - That being patient is crazy powerful, and a tool to use when faced with obstacles, cuz by straining the timing, often obstacles change
            5 - That you want to be attractive to women in a non-intentional way for a large part of what you do, using abundance, but then carving it, or guiding it to be far more interesting than normal

            So, in other words... You sort of dig down, far far down... Until you are confined by reality
            But in that depth you find freedom only in seduction
            You dance and move with its flexible nature
            You influence reality with rapport
            You are patient in most cases where problems arrive
            Then you act in abundance and shape your behaviours to appear in a captivating way


            In the book it is hard to see what I am saying... but basically... It is about the depths of your resolve as a man

            So basically, if your resolve is weak, the pressure to succeed is low, so you can be unconsciously competent easy
            But if your resolve is strong, the pressure to succeed is high, so unconscious competance becomes incredibly hard



            So, like bachus said, there is a huge difference between some levels of unconscious competence and others
            And that difference comes from resolve, and conquering a far higher pressure
            Yet in that pressure "finding seduction"

            And this is the mystery of seduction, where the greatness of being consistent comes from.



            Ok, lets take boxing
            If a guy goes out like a bezerker like a Deontay Wilder
            It requires technique to succeed, but a lot less of it

            But if a guy goes out in a more conservative way
            It requires CONSISTENCY to succeed, which requires a LOT of technical proficiency

            Meaning... You can start boxing talented enough to scoff at fighters who are more technically proficient than you
            But at the same time you will have INCONSISTENCY EMBEDDED into your style

            While if you are patient and work on every technique, you will start to SUCK compared to your talent
            But you will slowly be ironing out and removing inconsistencies


            A perfect example of this is Mayweather, who as younger, was more explosive and brawled and got into it with guys
            But as he kept getting better, he became consistent to a degree that it was just impossible to beat
            So his RAW talent that could go bezerk, eventually, did not need to go bezerk, and it was there and strong



            See, you and ijjji, are "non thinkers" for the same reason
            You rely on bezerker philosophies
            The idea that your talent can fade and disappear

            But, then how do you explain consistent fighters?
            That they are more boring?
            Who knows... it might be true.

            But thing is... you can iron out inconsistencies while maintaining your talent
            Which is what bachus naturally does every time he games
            He irons out kink after kink


            But you are allowing kinks, in order to maximise explosivity, cuz you are like a guy in boxing who has the KO itch
            Who doesn't yet know the pleasure of "boxing", to be tactical, and to position

            Same with game, you learn the pleasure of these advanced tactical adjustments, and you dont have as much of a KO itch



            So, bezerker theory, is basically
            Talent is fragile yet superior
            Your inconsistency is an issue, so you must maximise KO power
            Be unpredictable and powerful enough to terrify the opponent and draw them away from a sphere of influence where consistency works
            Force others to react, but be stronger at reacting by choosing first to see talent as superior to technique


            That said though, bezerker theory is wrong
            Bezerker theory can be defeated simpler than you would think
            Its weakness is more than just inconsistency
            It is weak in regards to "environmental influence"
            In a sense it can IMPLODE and hate itself
            Because it has not yet learned to operate under the higher pressures of resolve


            And once you can operate under higher pressures of resolve, you can whip out talent, and SHUT IT OFF at will
            Which gives a huge tactical advantage
            Allowing you to adjust the framing of any fight (or seduction)
            In ways, a bezerker simply is not capable of doing

            A bezerker by its nature has only one strategy
            And it is ride or die

            But if you are consistent
            NOTHING is ride or die



            But there are mixtures... bezerkers who put consistency into their style like mike Tyson, who was trained to consistency by cus demato
            And consistent guys who are pretty bezerk, like Ali
            He'd float like a butterfly (consistency), then go NUTS (bezerk)

            So its up to a person how they deal with it all

            But you want to be at least AWARE
            There is more than aa bezerk path
            Or if you choose bezerk philosophies, you want to do them knowing how to work them
            Knowing its weakness



            But I'm rambling on, so Ill shut up now

            Comment


            • #12
              Originally posted by thecostofsuccess View Post
              Ok, lets take boxing
              If a guy goes out like a bezerker like a Deontay Wilder
              It requires technique to succeed, but a lot less of it

              But if a guy goes out in a more conservative way
              It requires CONSISTENCY to succeed, which requires a LOT of technical proficiency

              Meaning... You can start boxing talented enough to scoff at fighters who are more technically proficient than you
              But at the same time you will have INCONSISTENCY EMBEDDED into your style

              While if you are patient and work on every technique, you will start to SUCK compared to your talent
              But you will slowly be ironing out and removing inconsistencies
              Precisely, this difference between a berserker-type of raw, athletic talent and the calculating, conservative, technical aspects of sports that allowed basketball hall of famers like Jordan and Kobe, to still dominate the league and the incoming young berserkers, long after their natural, athletic gifts had started to taper off.

              Because both of them, knew that while speed, stamina, power and dunking skills were important and powerful. . . they weren't the end phase of basketball skills. Which is why, even when they were still fairly young, and able to score and dominate other players with just pure athleticism. They also opted to learn specific, and rather conservative looking techniques to add on top, to this athletic ability. And also to see them through, later in their careers, once they couldn't run as fast or jump as high as they used to.

              The way I see it in seduction, is the difference between attraction game and influence game. To really be great at this, a strong handle on both is necessary.

              Unfortunately, a lot of guys can't really see past attraction game, they can't see past good looks, non verbal fundamentals, inner game, state, screening for DTF and not fucking up. And while it is important to master these things, to the point of unconscious competence, there is a ceiling to it.

              Most of the time, those guys just rationalize away the attraction game ceiling, and claim that they've already reached the top.

              But, there is a ceiling to that stuff. For example, as you already implied, the pressure to succeed on a girl, who was already attracted to you from the start, is minuscule compared to the amount of pressure, resolve and precision needed to handle the scenarios, that influence game enable you to handle.

              Like resistance, not being her type, uncertainty, environmental wildcards, logistics, attempting to flipping lesbians, LMR, etc. It took a lot of debating, back and forth, and even a few flame wars here, just to get this point across. Even still, every now and then, the looks / attraction misunderstanding returns, like a new wave of avian flu.

              Now, with influence game, the techniques, understanding and tough as nails mentality that comes with it . . . I'm not actually sure whether or not there is a ceiling. Obviously, we aren't laying 5 out of 5 chicks, every time we go out, regardless of the situation. At least, I haven't heard of it yet.

              But meet to lay ratios, and infield efficiency do become better and better, as you proceed from one level of unconscious competence to the next.

              And it's a continuous cycle, so with enough searching, there's always another kink that can be ironed out. Or a new set of techniques to learn, and we can even innovate new things to learn and master. Plus there's also the option of nerfing yourself, for learning purposes, or scrapping a bunch of skills to relearn them from scratch.

              So, perhaps one day, it will be possible, to do the impossible stuff. To be so unstoppable infield, that the government would have to step in, shut us down and take us away lol. For national / international security pr whatever. I guess my point here, sort of relates to one of the OP's questions, about having seduction handled.

              You can handle it at a certain level. And then handle it on a higher level. And so on. Each level of handling it, does bring on a feeling of relaxation / accomplishment. However, there is a mythical, theoretical level of handling this boy-meets-girl-business, that you can also strive for. . .
              “You know I cant hear none of that spend the night shit... that kumbaya shit”

              Comment


              • #13
                Originally posted by Bacchus View Post

                Precisely, this difference between a berserker-type of raw, athletic talent and the calculating, conservative, technical aspects of sports that allowed basketball hall of famers like Jordan and Kobe, to still dominate the league and the incoming young berserkers, long after their natural, athletic gifts had started to taper off.

                Because both of them, knew that while speed, stamina, power and dunking skills were important and powerful. . . they weren't the end phase of basketball skills. Which is why, even when they were still fairly young, and able to score and dominate other players with just pure athleticism. They also opted to learn specific, and rather conservative looking techniques to add on top, to this athletic ability. And also to see them through, later in their careers, once they couldn't run as fast or jump as high as they used to.

                The way I see it in seduction, is the difference between attraction game and influence game. To really be great at this, a strong handle on both is necessary.

                Unfortunately, a lot of guys can't really see past attraction game, they can't see past good looks, non verbal fundamentals, inner game, state, screening for DTF and not fucking up. And while it is important to master these things, to the point of unconscious competence, there is a ceiling to it.

                Most of the time, those guys just rationalize away the attraction game ceiling, and claim that they've already reached the top.

                But, there is a ceiling to that stuff. For example, as you already implied, the pressure to succeed on a girl, who was already attracted to you from the start, is minuscule compared to the amount of pressure, resolve and precision needed to handle the scenarios, that influence game enable you to handle.

                Like resistance, not being her type, uncertainty, environmental wildcards, logistics, attempting to flipping lesbians, LMR, etc. It took a lot of debating, back and forth, and even a few flame wars here, just to get this point across. Even still, every now and then, the looks / attraction misunderstanding returns, like a new wave of avian flu.

                Now, with influence game, the techniques, understanding and tough as nails mentality that comes with it . . . I'm not actually sure whether or not there is a ceiling. Obviously, we aren't laying 5 out of 5 chicks, every time we go out, regardless of the situation. At least, I haven't heard of it yet.

                But meet to lay ratios, and infield efficiency do become better and better, as you proceed from one level of unconscious competence to the next.

                And it's a continuous cycle, so with enough searching, there's always another kink that can be ironed out. Or a new set of techniques to learn, and we can even innovate new things to learn and master. Plus there's also the option of nerfing yourself, for learning purposes, or scrapping a bunch of skills to relearn them from scratch.

                So, perhaps one day, it will be possible, to do the impossible stuff. To be so unstoppable infield, that the government would have to step in, shut us down and take us away lol. For national / international security pr whatever. I guess my point here, sort of relates to one of the OP's questions, about having seduction handled.

                You can handle it at a certain level. And then handle it on a higher level. And so on. Each level of handling it, does bring on a feeling of relaxation / accomplishment. However, there is a mythical, theoretical level of handling this boy-meets-girl-business, that you can also strive for. . .
                Its about taking the risk to go from "attractive" to "influential"

                I used to talk about this when I was first at masf, I called it AFFECT her, don't hope for an "effect" to happen to her
                Basically a wonky way of saying INFLUENCE her, don't just play for some disembodied aspect of attraction


                There is a leap that happens in game when you go from superstitions as to what attracts girls, to relying on clear signals of what is literally affecting them in real time and adjusting based on that

                My guess is JD is skipping over signals cuz hes anxious to lock in attraction
                But you gotta be a bit careless about attraction, not try to lock it in, and just react with a bigger picture in mind and look for the signals that show its going like it should


                Liiiiike, I KNOW girls will ACT like they don't believe me
                They will act like they are pure as snow
                They will start to cringe if I say certain things
                Laugh, blow off a comment

                But, like, I also see the girl "coming over to my side"
                Then I say something and it "clicks"


                But you cant do that sort of thing if you are disembodied from your affect on people
                You have to know your influence


                Once a guy knows his own influence, NO WAY he is wondering how other guys see him
                You just mind your own influence

                Comment


                • #14
                  @Cosy & Bacchus: some very interesting insight here, I'm very thankful for you guys writing this out that concisely.

                  I do have a question about what you wrote, and I hope I'm not derailing this thread when asking it, but I'm truly curious:

                  There's something like a borderline for me between working with what seems possible and going beyond that to create the seemingly impossible. I've become better at distinguishing between those situations over the years, but the latter one kind of frightens me at times. Like, I can see the possibility of going further, yet I can also see that the woman in question wouldn't dare going further if she didn't get the feeling she can trust me and rely on me in overcoming her fears. In certain occasions, I feel competent/strong enough to take her over that borderline. In others, I know deep inside that I will most probably fuck it up. But usually, it's something in between, and I simply don't know the most likely outcome, and these are the situations I'm struggling with.

                  So how do you guys deal with that? Do you rely on your intuition and take a rough guess on whether you'll be able to bear the uncertainty? Do you have some ground rules? Do you simply leave that up to the woman in question, and make sure you yourself will survive even if things go very wrong? I can see value in practicing going beyond that borderline to improve, but at the same time I'm somewhat worrying to be meddling with people. I'm not worrying all too much about what other people might think, but about what happens to the women I'm with themselves if I fuck up in my leadership skills.

                  I usually feel most comfortable just communicating exactly how secure I feel in my judgement, but perhaps you'll tell me this is pretty stupid and there's a better way to do this, so I'm curious

                  Jester
                  Bunterrichten - Alternativen zum Unter-richten:

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    Originally posted by Jester View Post
                    So how do you guys deal with that? Do you rely on your intuition and take a rough guess on whether you'll be able to bear the uncertainty? Do you have some ground rules? Do you simply leave that up to the woman in question, and make sure you yourself will survive even if things go very wrong?
                    This is a good question.

                    The way I do it. . . actually sounds, sort of crazy, when I type it, but yeah. I just dive in, head first, knife between my teeth, machete in one hand and cocked pistol in the other. This sort of, shoot first, ask questions later mentality, is important for situations like this. And if you'll permit me, I'll use a metaphor to make sure the reason is understood.

                    In my last post, I discussed basketball a little bit. And in basketball games, there are moments like the ones you describe.

                    It's a championship. A playoff game. The finals of the series, whoever wins takes all. But at this moment, both teams are tied score-wise. And there's about 12 seconds left. If you are a Jordan, or a Kobe, you've been waiting for moments like these. Partially because of the glory, that will come, from hitting the game-winning shot.

                    But also, because of the uncertainty, of this moment. The other team will be guarding you, as aggressively, and as best as they can. The opposing team's crowd, will be booing and heckling you, to the point that their negative roars, will fill the stadium, in an attempt to distract you. And yet, the clock is still ticking. Every second counts.

                    The pressure of this moment, is so staggering, that you can feel it. . . almost like a physical force.

                    Sure, you've practiced your jump-shot, your 3 pointer, and you already have the ability, to shake off defenders, side step and out-maneuver them, and create the tiny, necessary, bit of space, which is enough to pull the trigger and take the shot. But no amount of practice, can prepare you, for this monumental moment.

                    But these players aren't thinking about the pressure, they aren't thinking about the defenders, or the heckling crowd. They're aware of it, but, that is not what they're thinking about.

                    All they are thinking about, and all they are focused on, is hitting that game-winning-shot. And it's for this reason, that I will dive in, head first, to shoot first and ask questions later. Because the defenders, guarding as best as they can, are the girl's uncertainty about you, her resistance and verbal or non-verbal push back.

                    The heckling crowd, are your own thoughts of uncertainty, and fears of fucking it up. The ticking clock, is time, and the knowledge that hesitation, will be the end of this moment and the end of this opportunity for something new, something you previously thought as impossible. Time is not on your side here. There is no time to think.

                    So I dive in, weapons ready, into the chaos and uncertainty. To see, if all of that adversity, can allow me, to elevate myself, to this level where I come out on top. This is what is known as a champion's mentality. And the only way to obtain it, is by repeatedly facing moments like these, and coming out on top, again and again and again.

                    The more you do this, the more your hunger, for these moments starts to grow. To the point, that you will become bored, if you go too long, without facing such moments.

                    Previous high pressure moments, become easy shit that cannot even stir you anymore. Your mental toughness, resolve, and precision, reaches unforeseen heights. And you start to savor these moments, you might even seek them out, so you can continue to elevate yourself. You find yourself, actually enjoying these moments. Crazy as it sounds.

                    Because these new experiences and challenges, and even the uncertainty, of whether you'll succeed, are truly exciting.
                    “You know I cant hear none of that spend the night shit... that kumbaya shit”

                    Comment

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