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**Guest** · 09-05-2018, 04:38 AM

Ive been seeing exactly same for years. (Moved into an office with an awesome cellar gym 2005, and been doing it regularly since.)
I used to think its down to sheer volume. It seemed to me that PTs and people who 'live in the gym' have it easier in this regard.

Year and a half ago, I tried combining my ultra time restricted eating (pig out max every 2 days) with max gym effort for the first time (saying "fuck you" to my injury anxiety). For 4 months straight I was seeing nice gains while staying at same weight. Then I had a neck injury and was out for a year. Now Im getting back to the same setup (3 weeks so far) , and very curious to see if I can reproduce same results. Ill keep you posted.

KJ: I speculate that the first time you gain a certain muscle mass level, It kinda has to happen in a non-ripped way. Reason is it seems that each time I re-bulk to a previous level, the muscle comes easier and with less accompanying fat gain.

**thecostofsuccess** · 09-07-2018, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by hey_lover View Post

I've been weight lifting over 5 years solid now, and have pretty much reached my genetic potential. I was born premature and grew out to a healthy 5ft 5inch endomorph, but regardless I've given my utmost best to reach my physical goal, which was to look like LL Cool J. I've reached the stage now where the next step would be to use some sort of gear if I were to get there, but I'm not going to risk my hair for that, so fuck that shit.

Anyway, the point of the thread was that I've seen myself in two different forms in the last year. Bulky and ripped, but as a natural I have not been able to combine the two.

Bulky -
The benefits of being bulky have been that I look like someone who lifts, have a strong presence, people are easily intimidated by me and simply just have more physical power. The cons have been that my face bloats up to an extent where I have chubby cheeks, whilst having no ab definition.

Ripped -
I have lost near enough 13kg since I started my cut at the start of January. The benefits have been developing definition all over my body, the appearance of abs, and losing fat on my face where I now have clear jawline definition. The obvious drawbacks have been that I don't look like I lift in clothing and I have also sensed a drop in presence and intimidation.

After cutting weight for so long, I have vowed not to gain weight again and just retain the abs/jawline, but it comes with the caveat that I just won't have that physical presence that I enjoyed when bulked up, so I don't know what to do. It's hard to say how either body types have impacted my game, as knowing that would have made it much easier to choose.

Any suggestions?

chubby cheeks destroy tension
for me, whenever i have them, my smile can seem creepy when in sexual state, but if my cheeks are guant it looks goooood
its because, chubby cheeks make you seem incongruent or like you are manipulating things more if you stray away from "happy guy"

I'd lose the presence factor before i allowed chubby cheeks
And try to regain it at gym
It will be hard though

You say you are at your limit? Is this really true?
I mean are you like benching twice your body weight and squatting 2.5x
In these 5 years what was your progress like?

What sort of routine are you doing?
Do you do anything to shock your system? Push its limits?
Ofc swartzy juiced, but his point is solid

My quick answer is, if you can, build it lean, its vastly more useful in seduction
If you have fat guy mass, to the point girls go "I thought you were just a bigger built guy"
It can create some trust and security in you, but there is a goldie locks zone, and after that you become too unfit to perform at all well in hard tasks

Have you tried calisthenics?

Those guys get nice bods the natural way.

If you can do these tasks, you are guaranteed not too fat.
Like you will never see a fat guy doing muscle ups xD

Its the same as doing weights, you focus on form,
But you hyper emphasize perfect form in order to progress, since you cant always add weight, you can only add difficulty and try harder exercises

Do weights to prepare yourself to do calisthenic exercises, like... look up the muscles needed, and build them up to sustain the weight needed
And be doing the exercises in the decline (eccentrics)
Like if you are learning a muscleup, just slowly come down from the top position then jump back up

I dunno man, I don;t know what you are doing or why you are at your limit
But, my advice as a seducer
NO CHUBBY FUCKIN CHEEKS
nonono

Congruency issues, chicks label you certain ways, its no good
Better to be "too skinny" by some chicks marker

Also another way to get presence is ink
So, depends if you wanna go that direction too
Or you could get some piercings, like a nose ring

But yeah, you should be able to get a THICK muscular physique,
If you aren't there, you either havent done it long enough smart enough,
Or I dunno wtf is going on

It is simply not the case that you CANT get thick without juice
You just gotta look deeper into what you are doing

Also are your workouts geared for hypertrophy?

I say all the above btw, having once lifted 2.5x in squats and 2x bench etc
I did it focused on STRENGTH though, not hypertrophy
So I was only "thick", not bulky
Doing one arm pullups n shit

But yeah, now I just think, where I was, plus a bit of hypertrophy would be good enough
So aim to get there

I dunno man, figure out a goal, and a realistic way to get there and just dont half ass it

**Guest** · 09-08-2018, 02:08 PM

Re calisthenics: Gymn. Rings are amazing. And suuuper cheap to buy. Got mine incl straps and hooks for less than 20�.

**Skills360** · 09-11-2018, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by hey_lover View Post

I've been weight lifting over 5 years solid now, and have pretty much reached my genetic potential. I was born premature and grew out to a healthy 5ft 5inch endomorph, but regardless I've given my utmost best to reach my physical goal, which was to look like LL Cool J. I've reached the stage now where the next step would be to use some sort of gear if I were to get there, but I'm not going to risk my hair for that, so fuck that shit.

Anyway, the point of the thread was that I've seen myself in two different forms in the last year. Bulky and ripped, but as a natural I have not been able to combine the two.

Bulky -
The benefits of being bulky have been that I look like someone who lifts, have a strong presence, people are easily intimidated by me and simply just have more physical power. The cons have been that my face bloats up to an extent where I have chubby cheeks, whilst having no ab definition.

Ripped -
I have lost near enough 13kg since I started my cut at the start of January. The benefits have been developing definition all over my body, the appearance of abs, and losing fat on my face where I now have clear jawline definition. The obvious drawbacks have been that I don't look like I lift in clothing and I have also sensed a drop in presence and intimidation.

After cutting weight for so long, I have vowed not to gain weight again and just retain the abs/jawline, but it comes with the caveat that I just won't have that physical presence that I enjoyed when bulked up, so I don't know what to do. It's hard to say how either body types have impacted my game, as knowing that would have made it much easier to choose.

Any suggestions?

which look do YOU enjoy most? which look gives you more positive responses in the field??? Which looks makes your clothes look better????

have you surveyed your girls/female friends.... Guys are clueless when it comes to this...

Now a recommendation

What they do is that they cut to 10-8% and they bulk to around 15% they never get passed 15% and rinse wash repeat....:

**POB** · 09-14-2018, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Skills360 View Post

have you surveyed your girls/female friends.... Guys are clueless when it comes to this...

THIS ^^^

Plus ask some gay friends (if you have them).
Don't go by the gym rats advice.
When it comes to game, most of them are lazy and mono - or only getting chicks who are below them.

Also try to model your body through successful endos.
Most of the guys that make a bang online are mesos (who can get away with a lot of shit)
or ectos (who look good on camera but are meh when you see them live).
You're not like them!

Stay natural, no need to jump on gear.
5 years means you're transitioning to advanced stage
now it's time to reassess everything you did so far and toss out what doesn't work for you.

PRO TIP:
shorten your cutting phase
10 days of low-carb are more than enough if you do everything correctly

**Guest** · 09-16-2018, 03:36 PM

So as mentioned, Ive been seeing similar thing. And you know me, Ive read EVERYTHING anyone ever speculated could cause this type of thing (Hormones, Micros, Macros, Home temperature, Homeostasis, Food combining, Food timing..) So imagine my surprise learning a brand new plausible cause TODAY, watching random fitness vids on YT; hypothyroidism.

Short version - inability to shed body fat through calorie deficit and exercise, is among main sympthoms for this condition.

Possible cause acc. to. WP is low iodine. Not impossible for me, since I have seafood intolerance, AND avoid processed salt..

So guess I'll try snacking on some seaweed chips tomorrow.

(Doesnt mean Im letting my 'main thesis' about sunlight go. I never go into calorie deficit without first having a tanning session. It makes a huuuuge difference for me.)

Oh nearly forgot the vid:

**TheProdigy** · 09-19-2018, 07:31 PM

Stay lean and put on lean muscle. First your face looks better, second you look more athletic. Bulking or getting fatter makes only sense if you work as a bouncer or somewhere where the extra weight is needed.

Gear is pointless if you don't compete, there are too many risks and downsides. Game is much more important than being a meathead anyways.

If you for some reason think that you need to look like a bodybuilding competitor to get fitness chicks (you don't) you can have the same effect if you are natural and ripped. Maybe one in a thousand or one in a ten thousand chicks would prefer a bodybuilder on gear to a normal or athletic guy.

**Guest** · 09-23-2018, 02:21 PM

Been eating wakame for a week. I AM AMAZED.
-No fishy taste, in spite of smelling very when preparing.
-Lovely chewy texture!
-Lovely taste - it kinda increases the original taste of whatever food, without adding much new taste.
-Zero digestive issues! (I dont tolerate veggies in general as they trigger my old IBS symptoms and lead to gas and pain. The only veggie I tolerated well so far was olives and moderate amount tomato.)

Research says a single gram wakame = 100% daily recommended Iodine dosage, but I dont buy that at all. Plant nutrients tend to have very low absorption in humans, and sea weed probably even more so, since kinda water resistant.

I take a fistful of dry wakame in a bowl and add just a little boiling water to soften (instantly). Then chop finely and that is enough for two meals. So far I added it to the stir fry towards the end. Sososo lovely.

**Futureproof** · 09-27-2018, 03:29 AM

Stargazer: Would you feel comfortable posting pics here? All of us can be critical and give you honest feedback.

**Skills360** · 12-26-2018, 08:32 PM

Well i did a mini bulk, gain about 10 pounds some muscle, some fat.... And though i was "big" about 20% body fat i got wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more positive attention than when i am lean.... Now the lookmaxers have a similar discussion here:

https://lookism.net/Thread-When-low-...ll-in-clothing

The thing is it did affected my sex drive (the more fat you get the more estrogen you get), but i personally do way better bigger (then again i am tall)

**Skills360** · 02-03-2019, 08:10 PM

So frustrating, so now i have been discipline for a month, From Thanksgiving to christmast went to about 20%, the weird think i got tons of attention from women.... Now I a down to 15% (similar to d in the video everything tight and stomach flat).... And as always, get the girls a bit complaining "you are getting too skinny" comments and the like..... anyways guys here is the video again (i posted some comments FROM WOMEN as well):

The girls i am seeing also choose d (encourage you guys to run this with your girls): (i also make sure that the girls making the comment were attractive/cute and not just coping)

Another hallarious thing i saw in the comment section that the dudes were making all type of retarded theories on why the girls were going for d instead of the dudes favor c, and the women were saying no, just lol, at dudes bro crushes and rationalizations....

Now all of this this sometimes kills motivation, the only thing that keeps me motivated as pe says, is the improvement in athletic performance such as capoeira and gymnastics, but on the women departmen 0 to NEGATIVE difference in results.... (so much for all the gll and more plates more dates theories)

Kirsten Elise 9 months ago
Keep ur shirt on man.

^ in reference to c

C 2 weeks ago
Koicflakes ykH i�d choose D too

Gloria 1
D oozes of natural manliness, protection and aesthetically very attractive. Team D anytime

Gloria 1 week ago
I don't want to cuddle with concrete blocks of possibly roid induced muscles which by the way is not attractive at all. D on the other hand is the best of both world's softish, warm but nonetheless very manly with broad shoulders. If women were afraid of being dumped they would rationally have gone for Z

Ani b 1 week ago
cuz its natural and it looks good. you dont need to look like hulk. as long as youre healthy

Veronica Nunez 3 days ago
Yeah it's really nice looking, and looks easy for a guy to achieve without always having to be in the gym

^ in reference to d

stephlau87 2 months ago (edited)
D because it eludes to the man being an actual hard worker, (not at the gym 24/7 like a desperate try hard), competent, (looks like he knows how to fix things) mature, (older than 30), secure (doesn't feel the need to compete with 23 year olds that spend every waking minute working out), and heck it just looks wayyy better. Plus a little more cushion. This body type looks bad ass. Like he'd stand up for you. Those heavily muscled guys look like they have a couple hundred missing brain cells and don't seem street smart enough to protect anything but their fragile image. Not real. Kinda comparable to a woman who tries too hard eh guys? Not attractive. Makes me wonder why any heterosexual male would put so much effort into looking good for what?..what a guy..would find ideal..?? Most women don't prefer the overly built body type
.

You get the point guys...

**Logic&Reason** · 02-04-2019, 06:33 PM

The jump from C to D is ridiculous, there's 2-3 body types in between. IME the ideal is somewhere in there.

The only real difference between B and C is a narrower waist (which is out of your control, down to bone structure), then C to D is drastic. Not a great test.

**Skills360** · 02-04-2019, 08:56 PM

The other issue and perfectly illustrated in the video i will post, is the dude that cosy posted in post #3, notice what happens with clothes on.... (does not even looks like he even lifts). He needs to overcompensate in the body building conventions by wearing a coat:

Athletic fit look is invisible at the club, they do not even look like they lift.

**POB** · 02-05-2019, 01:18 PM

- The best look is between C and D
(as Logic said, there's a lot of body types in between)

- The best fat range is between 9-12%. Yes, forget about shit like 6% (competition shape)
Trying to look too shredded is usually a bad idea, specially for short guys and ectos.
You cut untill you get to 9-10%, then if you need more muscle you slowly bulk till you get to 15% Bf tops, then you cut again.
When you reach a good BW, just stay in maintenance mode and keep that 9-12%.

Mirror always trips BF and body weight.
Best way to measure BF is explained in this video:

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