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makeouts mean nothing? (BS Exposed)

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  • #31
    In biz, you look ahead and "call" what is a good move before you do it, you don't do that in seduction impulse
    It doesn't have that same smooth effect of knowing what you are doing it just exposes that you have no clue
    You have to stop "calling it as you see it" and recognise seduction doesn't work like that
    The moment you "call it as you see it" is the moment you assuredly don't get wtf is going on, cuz you trap yourself into one move or behaviour, and that just gets obliterated

    In sed, you have to prepare your inner likely reaction to events and take the shitty parts off them so the vibe is good
    Never plan out ahead with some dominant assumption, thats just... not going to work man, not ever
    Mainly cuz it leaves you exposed, and girls will pick on it as an undesireable feature that makes them uncomfortable
    They'll freeze up and cut you out and you'll wind up twiddling your thumbs looking stupid

    It is interesting how being a biz guy first seems to utterly retard common sense in regards to women...
    Maybe cuz biz has often been built by insecure men who aim to control womens options by force and coersion/religion etc
    So please consider that your biz stuff is just likely to trigger asd, because it is the whole reason girls have asd in the first place, dudes trying to control everything they do.

    You gotta deprogram some of this stuff man, or you are going to keep thinking biz moves are smart in seduction contexts which is just not true

    You gotta learn to rebel, and be a bit anti-system and anti-power-structure
    Or you will have too much of a stick up your ass to figure anything out with common reason/sense

    Anyways on the topic
    Its just that dudes tend to act retarded when they assume kissing leads to the next steps like clokwork... its a tedious expectation for a guy to persist on. Its better if he knows a kiss is just kissing, and keeps his composure regarding other things right after.

    I mean, guys that get it wrong tend to create an overreaching feel, and girls have to pull back and take stock of his reaction, and by that point he looks suspicious and probably is.

    So the idea is, you put less presure on kissing and its more spontaneous and less of a fuss sexually, so then you naturally lead into other things with a good pace and the girl doesnt feel crammed into something but just follows her natural intrigue.

    This btw can be extrapolated into "don't kiss" but what it actually means is don't make a big deal out of it, and if that leads to you not even kissing her, that is perfectly accurate too because it minimises chances of her changing her mind (kisses make girls ponder things, and think less straight forward)

    So I mean, straight up no kissing can be weird, but if it comes from not thinking kissing is a big deal, its maybe even good
    Like maybe ups your chances by 10% or so? Cuz it shows you aren't obssessive and that you can handle multiple possibilities without a big sweat

    Cuz it just makes it neater.
    Its like in chess, you don't just take every piece you can, you just let it be there, there is no rush

    I'd say that as a rule, if you kiss her THE FIRST CHANCE YOU GET, and its not fucking cool as hell
    The girl goes into cruise mode, and just tunes you out

    Its better to build and build till her mindset switches from cruising to "whoa!"
    And if shes in whoa mode... then... well... suggest another location

    Depends on the guy, depends on your intention, but there is a dynamic here that bears noticing
    If only cuz a lot of guys LUNGE after everything and need to learn to cool it and be prepared for sex mentally rather than get distracted in this and that


    • #32
      Originally posted by Kit View Post
      at college ijjjji's early make-out rule doesn't apply as far as I know. just depends on the person and context
      -Yep. If the context says "TOO EARLY", then its bad. OTOH, if the context says "this is a slumber party where everyone's doing it, so go ahead or you will be the odd one out" then obviously there never is any 'early'..
      -Hmmm, I actually need to stop offering so many explanations for various mistakes, when EVERYTHING could actually be said in some sort of singular sentence. Something along the lines of:

      Any escalating action, should only come when there is a persistent mutual vibe causing a craving for it.

      (Lol I can think of 10 common mistakes that falls under this, but most of you know what I talk of, so I'll stop yapping here.)


      • #33
        IMO it comes down to the face that makeouts (extended kissing sessions) diffuse sexual tension while giving attention, and seem to have little correlation with horniness. So they largely do not work for you, those are three "imma fuck you tonight" boxes that don't get properly ticked.

        Now I can think of several times where I've planted the softest kiss a girl has ever received, and then PULL BACK and don't give anymore. This is NOT an extended makeout session though, the above BOOSTS sexual tension, gives just enough attention, and tends to boost horniness. That ticks all the "imma fuck you tonight" boxes.

        Kissing in general though is not a go-to in my seduction arsenal.


        • #34
          Well like I said, passive removal of makeouts isn't really the suggestion here
          The concept is about reducing importance on the makeout so you aren't like "ooh this could lead to sex yaaay!"

          I mean, most women have a period before they choose to go to bed with a guy where they "take stock" of things
          Now a lot of the time they might seem on a happy train like "weeeeee!"
          But girls aren't just strolling about without thought regarding sex (I dunno it can be argued, it depends on where they are at, sometimes they are just blanking out all details to avoid pain)
          They usually have a spot where they reel themselves back in.

          If you maintain an assumptive frame of mind, the girl will definately think you are scetchy.
          I call it dog game. Where guys slobber on chicks and dry hump em, and then when she pulls back to get a good look at him he tucks his tail and hopes to get a pet.

          A friend of mine used to comment that "you are never a dog, even when you grind on a girl, its like with such style its obvious you are in control of it"
          Its the difference between being a girls groupie, and being her only ace.

          Yeah she can switch to any of the guys hounding her, but you make yourself the most quality hand.
          Shes not going to be able to tell if shes making out with you. Cuz to her, lips and a body is lips and a body, most guys don't fuck that up.

          So the crucial aspect is where she draws back and how you appear in the light when she flicks it on.

          Girls makeout process isn't complicated, they think like you think, "bing bang boom"
          There is no grand cmplicated thought pattern behind it, BUT
          There is one big difference between you and them

          They know before hand what their sex threshold likely is
          So they can let guys bash up against it and keep a steady mind
          Then they'll sanitise the interaction, cuz it short, politely imply you are fuckable but slip away (you get this a lot btw I can tell)

          So while you THINK you are affecting them, you are actually just accepting a limit
          And when she takes stock of you, ain't nothing going to change her mind from where it started (maybe she gets wrapped up in it, but maybe that was her intent, maybe not, you don't know)

          I dunno man, there are stages of game...
          Some guys only have access to dog game
          And if its all you got I say you use it
          I don't suggest you say "this is the top! this is everything!"

          Like no... its not. There are plenty of things goinng on even within the situations you mentioned that you benefit from if you notice it.
          For example your "slutty girl" observation
          Well its not a type of girl, it is a particular moment in time where that girl is throwing some caution to the wind
          THERE ARE processes behind this backinng it up and predicting outcomes

          A friend of mine often says "its not like I'm swimming in alpha cock all the time like these guys seem to think"
          But most guys are like "heh, slutty chicks, derp!"

          No man, thats a shit attitude, cuuuuuz the girl will always go back to a state of sobriety at some point, and if you are beavis and butthead, shes going to do a double take and be like "and who the fuck exactly do you think you are" and peace out.

          I dunno, its easy to get caught up
          Girls even SUGGEST that you get caught up
          But its in your interest to remain sober minded enough to know their is a sober minded chick behind the controls of her seemingly out of control flow with the situation

          I mean, its meta
          So you won't see it initially or understand it easily or early on,
          AND girls won't exactly know what you mean by it either (cuz they don't think about it, they just routinely "take stock" and don't consider how it might affect a dude)

          I dunno, you can if you want, "get used" and be a playtoy
          Thats like, yeah, fine
          But you can also do it a bit more meta

          I call it the difference between wet game and dry game
          Wet game assumes you are influencing the universe with every energy choice, cuz it feels that way, but its downside is it actually isn't and it falls into preventable situatiions
          Dry game, when done right, creates a level of intellect while retaining a girls sexual interest, it AIMS to bring out her sober side, and to see through the preventable and work with the gils actual needs

          I think it is more skillful to use dry game, though initially easier to go in wet

          These days I think, wet is NOT serious, and it is just for kicks, because itll never improve your game or character as a man
          Dry game, its about fulfilment and getting what you feel is a good deal out of things without distraction

          Now, there is ALWAYS a connection, you can't do it 100% dry unless you are very familiar with it (so I personally don't suggest fully pulling back out of your initial wet game, but just complimenting it with some instances and moments of dry game in order to set up a road of improvement)

          Guys like teevs, he used to use a lot of wet game physically, but he'd always target the girls sober mind in his verbals,
          So he is a mixture of dry an wet

          Ijjjji, he does a lot of wet physical non talk moves, but he does dry things like vacuum, containment of his vibe, simplification

          I'm probably the driest, but I'm hugely capable of wet game,
          I just tend not to, relying on an understanding of a womans psychology and prefering to address her on her level

          I like that, cuz I get to talk and explore concepts of seduction and maximise my growth and inner fulfilment.

          Its up to the guy to determinne what he enjoys the most
          But be wary of assuming you don't like things you don't understand
          Dry aspects to your game, like a reduction on importance in certain typical escalation moves like numbers, kisses, etc can give you some perspective

          But I mean, it also might not depending on your situation, cuz you might just get instantly depressed without boobs pressing up against you
          And I hear you on that

          So its really up to the guy whether or not he can tolerate that level of exploration into his other abilities

          OFTEN guys that diiscover these new sides of themselves and new abilities are like HOW DID I EVER AVOID THIS
          And start to think "fuck I was being stupid not applying this all that time"
          So tend to exciteably stick with their new finding

          It isn't INCORRECT to go in wet, its just...
          Less effective long term. And get tiresome. And doesn't fully address all your needs.

          You can do it though, and everyone uses an aspect of it (even me)
          Its just not accurate to say everything is bullshit, when you actually don't know what it is and are just assuming they are deludedly telling you utter crap

          The good thing about many guys on here is, they have some depth in their own respective fields of competancy
          Thusly there is stuff to explore by asking each guy a question or observing his own partiular take on it

          It isnt necessary to have one uniform, montonous, hive mind
          You just need some courtesy and boom you are done

          Like maybe you want COURTESY regarding your entirely wet unhinged game :P
          But haha, you gotta have some humor about you too, you can't take a guy ragging on your game so serious ALL the time
          Sometimes you just let it be

          My guess is, you are just so new at interacting with dudes that are seducers you are all paranoid
          Like youll get shot from every angle
          Best way to avoid that is counter intuitive
          Just provide good discussions, don't go into ego battle mode

          Don't castrate ALL of your fire though,
          Its good
          Just don't lazily piss on dudes cuz you got a little booboo :P
          Or get bored
          You still gotta keep an eye on aggitating the shit outta guys who are here to openly discuss

          Btw, I dunno what your best move is in seduction is, I only know the right direction,
          So take it with a grain of salt... but also don't be too much of a dick, thats taxing :P
          Its a paradox, and its up to you to sort it not us


          • #35
            -I swear to god you come up with the nicest analogy terms, Cozy!!
            -Dryness is where accumulation of thirst happens! <3

            Allow me a brief history accounting:
            -Unlike you, as a newbie I only knew GWM + comedy + crazy clothes. So I started as 100% wet.
            -Then I read the Dreem post where he let a girl 'hang to dry' (silence) for 4 days, resulting in her orgasm when she started giving him a BJ. (Lol I actually tested this on a GF. Confirmed!)
            -Then the IN10SE post about "mini vacuum" in conversation and kino.

            But, I often fail to mention how impressed I was by your early posts on things like:
            -Light vs. dark energy.
            -Posing vs. connecting.

            It was only after reading your posts, that I too started realizing that there is something ever-present and all-important called vibes..

            OP, my apologies for this mini-derail.


            • #36
              Originally posted by ijjjji View Post
              -I swear to god you come up with the nicest analogy terms, Cozy!!
              -Dryness is where accumulation of thirst happens! <3

              Allow me a brief history accounting:
              -Unlike you, as a newbie I only knew GWM + comedy + crazy clothes. So I started as 100% wet.
              -Then I read the Dreem post where he let a girl 'hang to dry' (silence) for 4 days, resulting in her orgasm when she started giving him a BJ. (Lol I actually tested this on a GF. Confirmed!)
              -Then the IN10SE post about "mini vacuum" in conversation and kino.

              But, I often fail to mention how impressed I was by your early posts on things like:
              -Light vs. dark energy.
              -Posing vs. connecting.

              It was only after reading your posts, that I too started realizing that there is something ever-present and all-important called vibes..

              OP, my apologies for this mini-derail.
              Yeah kinda like the difference between ginger and chocolate milk
              Chocolate milk feels soooo good but it makes you lethargic and you start to regret it, burp and stuff
              Ginger is aight, but it perks you up and you feel happy after

              When you wring yourself dry of all that validating hyper energy
              Cut through the crap to her sober minds desire for sex with a competant guy
              Then the scent of that ginger is more than enough to assosciate you with pleasant things
              She wants to enjoy it,

              While if shes had her fill of chocolate milk, shes done, put that shit to the side and call her a taxi
              But a ginger biscuit to dip in with her milk... daaaaayum.

              You just gotta understand that dynamic
              How they compliment
              How they have limits
              How it has positives and negatives regarding their assosciations

              Btw, sexual desire is most potent when it has this "zing" to it
              That sort of sexual zest
              And those qualities are best represented when the girl isn't thirst quenched, cuz her mind will get imaginative on that zest and zing
              Just her touching you will be like "omg, I need this"

              And btw, this intensifies if she thinks you are intelligent in behaviour, because the assumption of stupidity makes her less invited and more an intruder
              And once shes invited, just after that zest, she is in utter heaven
              Without you having to cram her into it

              Thats why these days my seductions might be as simple as tracing her shoulder strap while shes looking out the window
              Cuz she just wants to breathe it in

              Its a subtle point maybe to the newer guy though

              Its the difference between good and purrfect
              And if you can do purrfect
              Girls are gonna respect you

              Less flaking/less lmr/less asd assumptions
              Thats goooood

              Nothing is truly perfect though, they are always going to be who they are
              Its just something to be aware of

              Anyways when you are the sexiest guy in the room, its not in your interest to hand out choc milk, cuz girls will assume you are useless and chuck you in with everyone else
              You are that guy with a lil ginger, and they know its going to be heaven

              Girl: omg his body, dick, smile, way of moving... *druel*
              You: (half a smirk) wanna chill with me a sec?
              Girl: yes! I mean... sure, ok

              Thats the peak, not sweating your ass off on the dancefloor grinding for makeout


              • #37
                Why isn't this thread locked yet? lol


                • #38
                  It's amazing how there can be un-needed focus on such a ridiculous point such as make out or not

                  For some of you that may have forgotten this very basic principle , make out are supposed to be fun and exciting.. If you like the girl and the context is conductive to make outs then go for it. It's a very simple concept that does not need any over-engineering.


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Chad View Post
                    Why isn't this thread locked yet? lol
                    Because not enough guys have waxed philosophical yet. It's sedfast, everything has to be complex, deep, and spiritual.


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by DJ_Z View Post
                      Because not enough guys have waxed philosophical yet. It's sedfast, everything has to be complex, deep, and spiritual.

                      Ahhh shiiit


                      Oh no

                      Its ain't THAT bad
                      But for real, I get you though
                      Shit gets too intense sometimes
                      Just gotta shrug it off right?

                      I feel you man x)


                      • #41
                        Nah, different strokes for different folks. Some just post to be sarcastic, others are here to help. And you never know who you're helping.
                        At first I was annoyed at the post (the "...BS exposed" attitude in the title.) Now I'm grateful that Impulse posted it. Cose's last three posts are gold to me. (I mean the three before this very last one above. The: kiss or no kiss is not what's important when the girl steps back and takes stock, wet game vs. dry game, hot chocolate vs ginger. Those posts, I needed to read them. Thanks Cose. I'm not brown nosin', just giving another feedback)


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Sase View Post
                          Now I'm grateful that Impulse posted it.
                          Also.. Is it bad that he mixes some 'attitude' and some dubious theories into his posts, OR is it great for discussion?!?
                          (I tend to be a purist, but I think the forum needed a bit of discussion at this point.)


                          • #43
                            I agree with ijjjji, sedfast needs more KJs and trolls


                            • #44
                              Another opinion to throw onto the pile.

                              I think make-outs are probably counter-productive, or maybe meaningless, towards the lay. I highly doubt they help matters.

                              In the grand scheme, makeouts are pretty meaningless. I can make out with 10 girls a night (as another poster mentioned) and not get laid.

                              Yes, is it validation and some quick fun, which is why I do it, but it's kind of giving up the prize for a smaller consolation, strategically.

                              Ultimately you are giving the girl exactly the safe validation confidence boost she wants so she can go back to online dating or coworkers to hunt and fuck later. Probably better to hold out and make her work for it.

                              That said, sometimes they just want to hump anyway.

                              Also, a caveat is --- if it's not a cold approach, but a warm approach (long time coworker, for example you just went on an hour long adventure with) ... then making out in a back alley somewhere can be quite electrically charged with all the sexual tension, just a taste. This is different, much different, from being 'hungry club makeout guy stranger' which is the context in which I'm making out with girls probably 95% of the time.


                              • #45
                                I figure I can weigh in on this...

                                I had a makeout with a girl last monday and she said she was interested in seeing me again. We were going for tonight. And now? She hasn't answered my text... coincidence?