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  • #16

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Silvertree View Post
      Two questions.

      I renamed this forum Direct Game when I combined Night and Day game, as part of trying to make this forum more compact and to the point. Is there a better name that incorporates both direct and indirect game. Perhaps simply "Game", using the less is more approach. Or would it be a better idea to have an Indirect Game forum as well? I'm open to suggestions from experienced guys.

      We have this archive of famous masf posters here:

      https://nextasf.com/forum/unused-for...e-masf-archive

      Which of them are good teachers of direct and indirect game?
      the suggestion was to call it cold approach game which means gaming total strangers

      Comment


    • #18
      Originally posted by Grodmeister General View Post
      Hdr everyone here runs direct
      don't confuse people with bad information please...

      Comment


      • Grodmeister General
        Editing a comment
        yall are spreading the bullshit trust, every single indirect dude or pretends to do indirect stuff ...does something similiar to this format .....open with a situational opener that you think is indirect but gives away your intention (into the target) does not really shoot dhvs towards obstacles and doesnt neg ...may light tease but majority of the shit that leaves your mouth are rapport seeking questions .....then you escalate ......thats not being indirect at all, you didnt just indirectly attract someone ...you were direct from the jump ... look i have an opener from colgate ...i just wanna say those shoes make you look like a rockstar( throw a compliance test ) and then say boom now youre a superstar ..i didnt tell her I like her but thats a DIRECT opener

        indirect means indirect all the way til a3 (qualifying ) means indirect opener ,means subtle dhvs ....means negging so there is a tension plotline ....means she chases you !!!!

        what you guys are doing is direct game .....

      • Subterfuge

        Subterfuge

        commented
        Editing a comment
        I think it just depends on your definition. I agree that nobody runs indirect game according to 'mysteries' definition, but that's just one PUA out of thousands. Other gurus's have a different definition of the word and what indirect mean. And all the rules about negging etc just part of HIS method, but most top PUA's don't do any of that stuff and lots of people don't even rate him as a pua at all and feel we've advanced way beyond all that stuff and thus ignore lots of his rules. (dhv, negs, cheesy lines etc).

        And really, some hot girl at a bar always knows why you are talking to her no matter how clever you think you are being with your opinion openers and stuff etc lol. She knows what's up

      • Grodmeister General
        Editing a comment
        a lot of your statements are not true at all , I can not consider other indirect gurus if they are not doing things like negging and dhving ...the Top guys do all of those things ive seen them in field( Mystery,Colgate, Kosmo ,discovery,Madison of 3sr, Justin etc. ) I do not subscribe to some dude on youtube with infields as a top guy i gotta see em in person and ive seen those guys !!!

        and No the girl does not know whats up ...2 examples both Monicas ive closed post bootcamp with Colgate

        first one ..i was talking to everyone in the party but ignored her and even told her we wouldnt get a long ..when i debriefed her she told me at first she thought i didnt like her at all and i was an asshole but after talking to me she liked me that does not sound like she knew ..thats how i know you guys are doing direct ...still somewhat ..

        the other monica (her name is monica ironically) same shit .. she said she thought i was arrogant when but charming ..and she hated that i said she was the drunk one of the group ( I did a group cold read a 4 set ) I also told her i cant call her by her name cuz i had an ex named monica alreeady and she was trouble, she told me shes gonna change my mind both of them didnt think i was trying to get em both of them CHASED me , yall are not negging and claiming next level, thats crazy.. the negs get the girls chaaaasing ..tell em we wouldnt get a long and watch what happens!!!! anyhow Yes this stuff being pushed on the forum right now is still direct game , i see no elements of getting the girl to chase you (seeking rapport with you) its open with a non i wanna fuck you opener(still doesnt mean your opener wasnt direct) its then rapport seeking pattersn and learning their trance words for goofy ass nlp patterns..... indirect is body rocking with a neutral but good opener that doesnt let the girl know youre into her, youll neg her, dhv story tell, qualify her and boom take it from there..thats indirect anything else is watered down bullshit!

    • #19
      Originally posted by Silvertree View Post
      Two questions.

      I renamed this forum Direct Game when I combined Night and Day game, as part of trying to make this forum more compact and to the point. Is there a better name that incorporates both direct and indirect game. Perhaps simply "Game", using the less is more approach. Or would it be a better idea to have an Indirect Game forum as well? I'm open to suggestions from experienced guys.

      We have this archive of famous masf posters here:

      https://nextasf.com/forum/unused-for...e-masf-archive

      Which of them are good teachers of direct and indirect game?
      Since both Night and Day game could be run direct and indirect, maybe better name would be cold approach forum ?

      Comment


      • #20

        first one ..i was talking to everyone in the party but ignored her and even told her we wouldnt get a long ..when i debriefed her she told me at first she thought i didnt like her at all and i was an asshole but after talking to me she liked me that does not sound like she knew ..thats how i know you guys are doing direct ...still somewhat ..

        Explaining shit to you is like talking to a brick wall cause you think you have all the answers and you are getting to the point of cult follower the way you talk and explain mm..... Interactions are dictated by subcommunication if you read what i wrote and then you said the same exact same shit, indirect means not subcommunicating interest from the get go, the reason to do this as Velasco explained is to give yourself a chance to frame things, subcommunicate different shit that will hook her and make her inviest, disqualify yourself (a million things and ways to do it, even better than "we would not get along) for example how i disqualify myself is telling her that she will help me get women cause women will get jelaous of me being with her, and i will help her get dudes or cock block dudes she does not like and tell her to give me signs..... .

        Second you can dhv a million ways without 0 story telling.... Example i seduced a girl that thought i was the owner of the club due to so many guys and women comming up to me, and people offering her drinks by her being with me.... 0 story telling i just dhv, nevermind my behavior(just presence and behavior is a dhv), get it...



        the other monica (her name is monica ironically) same shit .. she said she thought i was arrogant when but charming ..and she hated that i said she was the drunk one of the group ( I did a group cold read a 4 set ) I also told her i cant call her by her name cuz i had an ex named monica alreeady and she was trouble, she told me shes gonna change my mind both of them didnt think i was trying to get em both of them CHASED me , yall are not negging and claiming next level, thats crazy.. the negs get the girls chaaaasing ..tell em we wouldnt get a long and watch what happens!!!! anyhow Yes this stuff being pushed on the forum right now is still direct game , i see no elements of getting the girl to chase you (seeking rapport with you) its open with a non i wanna fuck you opener(still doesnt mean your opener wasnt direct) its then rapport seeking pattersn and learning their trance words for goofy ass nlp patterns..... indirect is body rocking with a neutral but good opener that doesnt let the girl know youre into her, youll neg her, dhv story tell, qualify her and boom take it from there..thats indirect anything else is watered down bullshit!

        millions of guys in the world get laid with 0 negs, i for example bust balls bring the same effect of negs...


        The point of negs, dhv and all the rest of prehistoric stuff is to subcommunicate different stuff and emotioanally stimulate her, i hope you know this since you are going to be a coach right...


        there are a million ways to accomplish that without having to do dhv stories, negs and the likes... But i don't even know why i waste my typing explaining this to you, i know exactly why your answer will be:

        "colgate this colgate that"

        "dhv, neg blah blah"

        "3sr blah blah"

        "bootcamp"

        "lets meet "


        zzzzzzzzzz



        now please here is how most guys are running stuff indirect, by velasco (though you do not have to open by self amusing ):
        • When PUAs open indirect, it is because they have a purpose behind every single indirect thing they do.

          - You open by self amusing (oppose to opening every girl "hey sexy. hows it going?" because you obviously find her sexy and want to fuck her), because you want to spike her emotions. And ask her interesting question/make her intrigued by you BECAUSE you want to reach the hook point with her.

          - You kiss denial (instead of directly going for the kiss when the situation presents itself) BECAUSE you want to increase investment (This is especially true during the beginning of the interaction. More often than not, going for the kiss, this early (maybe she's just horny), which result in her being self validated and then leave you).

          - You disqualify her (after making her intrigued by you/passed the hook point) (even though you obviously want to fuck her) BECAUSE she'll want her to qualify herself to you. This also increases investment.

          - You talk about sex during the interaction, BECAUSE you want to put sex on her mind, which makes her starting thinking about fucking you ("BUT HE'S TALKING ABOUT SEX. THAT'S PRETTY DIRECT!!!" lol. Purpose behind it).

          - You plant the seed and use a plausible deniable excuse to get out of here (instead of telling her "aight sexy its getting late. lets go back to mine and go fuck") BECAUSE you don't want to activate her Anti Slut Defense.

          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          All these things are indirect/covert. but they all have a purpose behind it. And that is: They increase the chances of closing the girl. Which is your goal of the interaction.

        Comment


        • Grodmeister General
          Editing a comment
          yes im not gonna listen to you , first of all you used to be the biggest critic of indirect styles of game then you come outta the woodworks knowing all about the method ive stuck to the whole time !!! you have no crediblity and or suspect!


          you are wrong about negs , surprise surprise ,mr never negged all of a sudden knows how to neg!

          presence by itself is not enough to be dhv that falls under impact value (like looks or money , etc) , i should have said that dhv stories are in a skilled seducers arsenal , Discovery another master pua says the 9s and 10s wanna see the dhvs(but if you cant show you demo covertly ala stories to her friends ,all the Top indirect guys start there! !!!!


          look you gotta get to that point for her to COMPLY to being a wing man !!!! yes that can be a neg or disqualifer moreso but you cant do that early or it wont work ,

          again indirect or skilled competent indirect method is the girl CHASING you ....what did i say about the watered down indirect method (remember you guys ask questions aka seek rapport ) thats exactly what velasco typed up here and im willing to bet you do the same , better to neg ,ftc , dhv and have HER ASK THE FIRST QUESTIONS (that will also let ya know to go into a3 qualifying cuz she is seeking rapport ala is attracted) disqaulifying past the hook point is also too late ,,

          ,if she is past the hook point you had her from the open ,you need the neg to get to the hook point ,you need the neg (most of the time ) to get her to CHASE

          direct gamers chase ,this walmart indirect game stuff you are postin n preachin is chasing

          ask her questions for what ...she should be asking you ...talk about sex for what ,you are not sure you even wanna have sex with her



          talking about sex is unnecessary in fact its better to not talk about and or let her bring up sex or make the moves towards it! ( all the top indirect guys i know do that , I actually know the skilled indirect guys as in the most skilled at the most competent form of indirect , dudes on this forum are just dudes on this forum with no proof plus i bet


          none of em are gonna hang with the guys ive seen infield!

      • #21
        Grodmeister General

        "you guys ask questions aka seek rapport "

        So what you're saying is one shouldn't ask a girl questions such as "where are your friends/who's your friend?" "what part of the city do you live?" "how long are you gonna be here?" (if she's a tourist) ("BUT THAT'S DIFFERENT BRO!!!! THOSE ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT LOGISTICS!!!" lol....they're still questions, broski.) or I should stop opening young girls on their phone with silly shit like, "are you texting your husband?" to spike her emotions?

        Bacchus, has said before, ask her the question you want her to ask you in return. Then answer her question, by giving her an emotionally stimulating reply. So the purpose, here, of asking her the initial question, was to spike her emotions. Not seek rapport. Sneaky indirect way of DHVing.

        "HER ASK THE FIRST QUESTIONS (that will also let ya know to go into a3 qualifying cuz she is seeking rapport ala is attracted)"

        No. Her asking you a lot of questions in general, is a sign you're past the hook point, and she's now invested in the interaction. Not the FIRST questions. Because, as I'm sure you know, in the beginning of the interaction, the onus is on you to carry the conversation 90/10 rule. which include statements and questions coming from you. You don't want a newbie to be stuck in his head thinking, "shit shit shit, what do I talk about now, Grod said don't ask her any questions because that's seeking rapport! Fuck"

        "disqaulifying past the hook point is also too late"

        Disqualify her before she's invested in the interaction and she won't care ("uhmmm okkay bye"). Disqualify her AFTER she's invested and she'll start to worry she might lose you.

        Here's JP disqualifying his girl AFTER being with her for 30 minutes (aka past the hook point)

        4:30 - 6:25

        https://youtu.be/SqBjjr8N_uE?t=270

        "talking about sex is unnecessary"

        ok YOU don't make use of sex prizing, set nonjudgemental frame about sex, tell her sex stories etc., but don't tell us they are unnecessary, because other seducers find it very effective to talk about sex.

        "its better to not talk about and or let her bring up sex or make the moves towards it!"

        11:07-12:00

        Same infield above

        Comment


        • Grodmeister General
          Editing a comment
          in the first 5 minutes before a3 you dont ask questions you do the opinion opener which is a false opinion opener( you use it as a vehicle to state your opinion and hold off til they ask you questions then youre in a3...you tell stories and make statements (those are not questions ) and you neg the target!

          the neg causes the girl to wanna fix it in a3 hence you getting chased(you also dhv which isnt that se4xual prizing shit)

          you neg early during opener cuz you have engaged the whole group but not HOOKED THEM yet (hence to answer what you were saying you ARE negging when they are vested into the interaction,take too long and well you been gaining rapport the whole time!

          sex talk again is not vital at all ....you can use it but doesnt dhv or anything like that! its

          connect with her and she will get sexual with you!!!!

      • #22
        I think girls pretty much know we want to fuck them. They just get upset if you go direct on them because they have ulterior motives of you.

        Guys by defacto always to fuck. Girls are trickier they might want to fuck/your attention/your courtship etc.

        Hence why girls prefer more indirect means because they're manipulative by nature and like the ambiguity because it gives them plausible deniability when they unconsciously or knowingly 'lead you on'

        that's my 2 cents on da game

        Comment


        • Grodmeister General
          Editing a comment
          hence why neg and show more attention to the peer group to kill that idea in her head ..of every guy wants to bang her!

      • #23
        Direct game is bascially Caveman game

        Comment


        • #24
          Direct vs indirect has more to do with openers or specific parts of game, not so much game as a whole. Direct = stating intention directly, indirect = not stating intention. The strategic use of both in your game is how the vast majority of seductions go down, there's not really an "either/or" unless it comes down to a specific line like with an opener.

          Its true, if your whole game is direct game, that's just super heavy screening caveman game. Though I'm sure there's an art and a craft to maximizing this, there's good caveman game and bad caveman game.

          Comment


          • Grodmeister General
            Editing a comment
            im not even saying its a versus thing ...theres room at the top for both styles ,but if anyone on this forum thinks what they are doing is indirect ,then they are sadly mistaken!

          • Logic&Reason

            Logic&Reason

            commented
            Editing a comment
            If you're not directly stating intent, and instead are relying on sub-communication, then you're going indirect.

          • Grodmeister General
            Editing a comment
            no, you give away intent if you are opening with situation openers , not negging and seeking rapport!!! you dont have to directly state intent for someone to interpret your intent!

        • #25

          yes im not gonna listen to you , first of all you used to be the biggest critic of indirect styles of game then you come outta the woodworks knowing all about the method ive stuck to the whole time !!! you have no crediblity and or suspect!

          Yes cause i was a natural and i was new to the community, and i gamed in loud ass clubs and that was pre MILENEALS/ PRE GENERATION Z...... Please tell me is ok to adapt game and strategy if things stop working and if society evolves...

          oh no my bad, you still stuck in 1990 so sorry you won't get it? nevermind, i said "sex talk does not work" "second generations does not work" and etc... Mainly due to lack of me understanding what was being done.... Mm does not work well in loud club environments, and you know this right...



          you are wrong about negs , surprise surprise ,mr never negged all of a sudden knows how to neg!
          I don't give a shit about stupid as negs, i was saying the goal of the neg based on mm book is cause you assume she is higher value status than you, so since you are lower status than her you neg her to bring her down to your level.... Fucked up mindset to begin with....

          I don't use scripted negs, i bust balls which emotionally gets a reaction but to be honest none of this shit is needed.... i do shit like that if in the mood.


          presence by itself is not enough to be dhv that falls under impact value (like looks or money , etc) , i should have said that dhv stories are in a skilled seducers arsenal , Discovery another master pua says the 9s and 10s wanna see the dhvs(but if you cant show you demo covertly ala stories to her friends ,all the Top indirect guys start there! !!!!

          i said PRESENCE (clothing, sexy stereotype, in my case the masculine stripper stereotype dutchbag) and BEHAVIOR, i love how you left out behavior, women will judge you by your behavior..... As i said which is factual you can do dhv by your behavior and subcommunication and by sex prizing (sexual dhving)


          look you gotta get to that point for her to COMPLY to being a wing man !!!! yes that can be a neg or disqualifer moreso but you cant do that early or it wont work ,

          again indirect or skilled competent indirect method is the girl CHASING you ....what did i say about the watered down indirect method (remember you guys ask questions aka seek rapport ) thats exactly what velasco typed up here and im willing to bet you do the same , better to neg ,ftc , dhv and have HER ASK THE FIRST QUESTIONS (that will also let ya know to go into a3 qualifying cuz she is seeking rapport ala is attracted) disqaulifying past the hook point is also too late ,,
          ah?? mental masturbation

          ,
          if she is past the hook point you had her from the open ,you need the neg to get to the hook point ,you need the neg (most of the time ) to get her to CHASE

          direct gamers chase ,this walmart indirect game stuff you are postin n preachin is chasing

          ask her questions for what ...she should be asking you ...talk about sex for what ,you are not sure you even wanna have sex with her


          You do not need to neg bro... millions of guys get laid with 0 negs and get women to invest and chase with 0 negs.... Have you field tested getting laid without negs???



          t
          alking about sex is unnecessary in fact its better to not talk about and or let her bring up sex or make the moves towards it! ( all the top indirect guys i know do that , I actually know the skilled indirect guys as in the most skilled at the most competent form of indirect , dudes on this forum are just dudes on this forum with no proof plus i bet

          I already made a post explaining that talking about sex is not "i want to fuck you" "let me cum in your mouth and the likes" talking about sex is mainly addressing sexual topic in a very neutral/inderect way extremely calibrated with a goal in mind that does not raise asd.... Since you never done it, you will not understand...

          Comment


          • #26
            Did anybody understood the post,


            again the post is not direct vs indirect....


            The post is "if the girl is not giving you shit r based on this, that and the other, run indirect"


            Comment


            • #27
              Skills360 ,
              you take lots of 360 degree turns . As I have said before people who talk bullshit about The Mystery Method never had even read The Book or Watched DVDs..
              Skill360 , one can only imagine how pathetic you looked back then when you did not understood The Mystery Method and talked shit ,..
              Now , even you apologized , are still talking shit .

              ​​​​​​

              Comment


              • #28
                If you do not know The Method then do not give advice or talk bad about The Method .

                Grod , The System by Todd is The Modified Mystery Method , the opener you shared has premise .

                Comment


                • Grodmeister General
                  Editing a comment
                  no Todd is not related to any of that stuff and I do agree ,skills has no clue on the method , I'll take you've trained the method via bootcamp and or coach as credible, if we go bu videos we all are experts on the method.

              • #29
                Originally posted by Hdr View Post
                Skills360 ,
                you take lots of 360 degree turns . As I have said before people who talk bullshit about The Mystery Method never had even read The Book or Watched DVDs..
                Skill360 , one can only imagine how pathetic you looked back then when you did not understood The Mystery Method and talked shit ,..
                Now , even you apologized , are still talking shit .

                ​​​​​​

                I have the latest mm audiobook, from audiable, i read the game and i have the printed version.(of mm and the game).. Watched the vh1 pick up artist complete season, saw the mm guys on keys of the vip, was in a forum devoted to mm for 5 years(mpua foroum), and watched and read everything gg post here on the subject?? How you like them apples...

                -made a post defending mm and pointed the flaws

                Do me a favor and please put me on your ignore list, don't mention or talk to me ever again.. Thanks in advance....

                Comment


                • #30
                  Grod , You say taking a bootcamp or getting a coach because the live feedback is important but that problem can be solved, many Programs solves this issue .
                  I mean , I am not going to sit around and wait for a coach to give live feedbacks to become a PUA , sure at some point I would take a bootcamp from Mystery but I am not seeing it happening soon , hahaha , so , I have to practice on my own yet .

                  Comment


                  • Grodmeister General
                    Editing a comment
                    no it doesn't solve the issue ,someone has to see you, programs n videos cant correct you like someone in person,it wasn't til i got correct on things like negs in person that I began to do em properly, same with body rocking etc. Someone skilled has to see you in person and point out flaws you have and more importantly dont know you have,a video,a book an audio series can only do so much ,plus in person cuts the time you gotta put in to get good.
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