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  • #31
    I saw Krauser shittalking BD and I look at both blogs so was curious to see if there was commentary here about it, and it looks like part of the commentary does appear here.


    My take on the shittalking:
    1) his first point that his claims are outrageous are clearly true, even though I don't think one is required to post lay pictures to confirm success necessarily. But given that BD calls a 37 year old a 9-10 makes it pretty obvious he greatly exaggerates the quality he gets. Maybe a 37 year old fitness model is a low 7 at best, so I'd venture to guess he generally sleeps with 6s. And generally online I've never known anyone to be able to even get 8s. Let alone an average looking guy in his 40s. But that's a point pretty much everyone else has figured out.

    2) his other attacks were a bit low. He married the single mom long before his BD days so that's a rather pointless attack. And he was able to do online game generally with success (albeit with greatly exaggerated claims of quality) long before turning to sugar daddy "game".

    3) That said Krauser is absolutely right that it's a different experience. Sugar daddy game, or a prostitute, or being a provider, which are all completely the same in reality, means she doesn't actually enjoy sex with you, she tolerates it at best. And thus the nature of the sex is very different, it's no longer an intimate 1to1 physical connection, but masturbation with visual and tactile enhancement. Like VR porn for instance.

    That doesn't mean it's wrong or bad or completely worthless, but people who are weighing options of making the effort to seduce Vs going this route are weighing different outcomes. Effort and time for sex or money for enhanced masturbation. I can see the value of doing both, in the sense of sleeping with and dating girls you can date and occasionally buying one much hotter than you could get. In that sense you're getting both, with the trade that you get a higher sense of visual imagery in the act with the prostitute versus an actual connection with the regular girl.

    BD 's défense was good I'd say. It's reasonable to not want to show pictures of girls laid for legal repercussions, and he made a solid offer to back it up, and then mentioned that he did do regular online game and doesn't claim to be very good at getting lots of hot girls regularly, but focuses more on lifestyle elements. So the attack overall was a bit crude.

    That said the one point that he is right on is certain, that BD is delusional about his quality. I think the mltr thing points to this as well, as Krauser hinted, but didn't do a good job explaining, as many have found with hotter girls mltrs rarely last longer than a few months.

    Saying an oltr is a bad way to raise children is rather odd though, I don't really see how an argument can be made that way.

    And in general yes BD is delusional if he thinks his sugar babies are actually enjoying their time with him or that any game is involved, but it also doesn't mean that prostitution in general is a bad thing, it's just a different kind of experience with its own relative tradeoffs.

    One point though is that online dating is not so certainly a step away from prostitution. It is true that there is a hard ceiling in quality, but if you are able to get a girl on a date there's still a lot of game to be done, it's no guarantee. Even guys I know who are very good at it tend to have about a 1 lay from 3-4 first dates from tinder as a ratio.

    Comment


    • #32
      going after men that help other men get good with women got me sad with the whole seduction community, people going after rsd, gll, bd etc... Yes i can nicTpick the mentions one to death, i can also nicTpick the attackers to death and make them look like shit! but what is the point of going after dudes that are helping other dudes get good in life and with women, if you are a FOOL that lacks critical thinking and are a fan boy and take everything they say as the bible then you are an idiot...It is onYOU TO FIELD TEST AND USE CRITICAL THINKING.

      The main problem with bd was not even address in the issue or in any blog or blog comment, this is the main problem with bd, i wonder if this commenter is pe:

      This is very simple. Blackdragon constructed the “Thrill of the hunt” category of guys as opposed to the “Pleasure of sex” category he states himself to belong to, just in order to piss on cold approachers who put in the numbers, and equate a couple of mediocre lays from online game pr year with the output from reallife pickup.

      He is constantly doing this, inventing acronyms and terms as a mean to rationalize. For example if you call out his totally KJ OLTR theories, you are a “angry right winger” etc.

      Note also that he is pissing on guys who someday plan to go mono in order to rear children. Which is very easy for him since he already did so as a chode, of course under much more shitty terms than what an experienced night or daygamer will be able to negotiate. That is probably also why he spends so much time hating on such guys. It must be unbearable to him that some guys who put in effort in reallife game and wife material screening may be able to get a better result than wifing up an old skank, paying for another man’s child and still getting divorced.

      ^ that right there and the passive aggressive subcommunication attacks in a bunch of his post on cold approachers, specially night gamers WAS his main problem...(he stop doing this and came here and apologized for it and stop posting)


      Comment


      • #33
        The hate continues: https://krauserpua.com/2019/02/26/ho...65_iODBs6aV8l8

        Turns out BD is lying about his business being so wonderful.
        Teevster (TVA_Oslo) AKA. Alek Rolstad

        Projects 2018:
        - Still Rocking
        - Flipping Lesbians (have sex with lesbians)
        - 10 year in PU anniversary!

        Comment


        • #34
          I've browsed the comments and basically looks like both guys are pretty fucked up but also teach very useful things, so it's important to understand the context shrug off overblown claims and just take what is useful.

          Blackdragon is obviously sleeping with 6s, you really can't argue with that, since there's no such thing as a 37 year old 8, let alone a 10. But he does it with a limited amount of effort and essentially no risk. So he writes very important things about marriage, long term monogamy and lifestyle design.

          Thus the takeaway is try to get a location independent business, make good money for yourself and also so you can fuck hookers who are hotter than you can get.

          But obviously if you want higher quality girls look elsewhere. You can't really get hot girls consistently without repeated high levels of effort and skill.

          His mltr model is delusional, but you can usually maintain a quality mltr for a few months so it's best to recognise the cycle of:
          1) work hard on improving your game and bang lots of new girls
          2) mltr girls until they demand more or you get one at the top of your quality and compatibility range
          3) mono Ltr her until she gets annoying or the sex declines or she wants marriage, meanwhilewhile continuing to work on yourself
          4) break up with her and go back to #1

          This seems to be the best way to optimise happiness, and essentially takes the best of both the bd attitude towards things with the realisation that quality results take quality effort


          Krauser fucks hot young girls he is very good at this. But he has natural dark triad qualities, and travels as a "writer" in eastern Europe suggesting wealth in a region where wealth is uncommon and thus a source of smv. He also apparently is converting to Christianity and intends to marry and have a kid soon, which everyone with any sense knows is boneheadedly retarded.

          So learn his game, but recognise you will have to have more game than he does if you don't have his natural advantages, so don't let him be your only source of game knowledge. And obviously don't think of his life choices as necessarily good just because he does have good game and success with girls.


          But it all gives disillusionment about a lot of gurus. Todd's gf isn't hot. Mystery is a mess. Deepak Wayne has ridiculous obviously untrue claims about quantity. Rsd is known to fail lots of people and uses all sorts of shitty marketing tactics.

          Who can you trust at all in this industry? Seems like no one is truly 100% reliable and get you to the promise land, so it's a very careful process of finding your own path and taking the small %ages from everyone that are true and effective

          Comment


          • Subterfuge

            Subterfuge

            commented
            Editing a comment
            There's no one true 'game'. I'm starting to strongly believe that the style of game you should run is determined by your looks, your location, your natural personality, your age etc etc. The fact we see such drastically different styles between 'top PUA's should be testament to that. Everything works

            But more importantly, 'game' isn't some sort of magic that makes girls attracted to you. The more I learn, the more I agree with Mark Manson in terms of what game is - i.e, with certain skills you are more likely to bang the girls that are ALREADY interested in you. But you can't force attraction in a girl with 'game'. That's the rub.

            And yes, as you say, there's lots of smokes and mirrors. All the 'pros' get rejected lots and are living a lie to some extent. (Using hookers, actresses, banging 5's and calling them 9's, getting girls due to good looks and calling it 'game' etc etc). Not worth worrying about. Get out there and approach a tonne of girls, and get better at closing the ones who think you are hot. That's basically it

          • Tank_

            Tank_

            commented
            Editing a comment
            Yeah seems that it's true that game should be different based on location personality and natural advantages.

            Girlschase has that mindset too, as well as Bradp, it makes sense. Fundamentals determine quality and game determines quantity. Some aspects of fundamentals can be improved and there are some small feedback effects (quantity makes you happier and mental health is part of fundamentals).

            Sure, but any effort spent towards something costs time. And you have to evaluate whether that time is worth it. If guru a's results are bullshit, or only applicable to him or certain types of girls, then testing his ideas and taking the time to learn his skills is time spent that you could've been doing other things, including more useful game skills.

        • #35
          tank you seem to be spinning and projecting your answers due to your own seduction views.... Because some people can do things that too many seem not possible does not mean is not possible....

          In this forum there are a lot of copers, and hardcases (caugh sarge maximus)

          and guys like subterfuge that hung out with a male model and think you need to be a male model to get women, faceplam....

          my point is do not project, there are already guys that went to his seminar and saw pics and confirmed the girls are 8 go to the comments...


          I got laid with David d advise....a lot...

          I got laid with 60 yoc and i have never seen no one girl he ever fucked....

          I got laid indirectly with tons of advise of people i have never ever seen women they fucked...


          again.... REad the advise, use critical thinking, and field test everything else is cope...

          When i joined the community they were saying the dude that got the hottest girls Was Adam Lyons and Mystery i got laid 0 times with their advise, 0....Get my point.


          Comment


          • #36
            I am getting really tired of people trashing Blackdragon on this site. He is the reason we have this site. When masf went down the crapper, he stepped up and financed building a new home for this community. All the people who constantly bitch about him, and attack him when he posts here could have put up $20 each, each year and paid for a site, and very likely I would have volunteered to help set it up...

            BUT YOU DIDN'T!

            Please, show a little courtesy to our benefactor.
            The older the violin, the sweeter the music. Augustus McCrae

            Comment


            • Teevster

              Teevster

              commented
              Editing a comment
              He is also, the reason of its downfall, which killed the remaining fire of the mASF.

              Maybe Blackdragon did not tell you, but there has been many offers for buying this site in the past. Good offers too!

              And actually, everybody was happy when he started this place. Myself included! I even talked to him and helped him out the way I could (by actually killing off my own private forum in order to get old posters back to public forums!). I have not hidden the fact that I am grateful for this move. But one great move does not apology for the rest and it was when he went nuts that this forum died - because of him. But it was his forum anyway, so who cares right? No he killed the remaining of the old pick up community and that is severe.

              PS: yes he invested in this place but this site have not made him money directly, but helped him establish his blog and driven traffic to his blog, especially during the start up phase where this extra traffic was crucial. So yes this site benefited him immensely.

            • Logic&Reason

              Logic&Reason

              commented
              Editing a comment
              The guy spent 10 years passive aggressively insulting the PU community from within the PU community in high volume. He's put an awful lot of bad energy out into the world, which will come back to him in various ways for the rest of his life. Nothing can be done about it now, action -> reaction.

          • #37
            Fair enough. Indeed there is a lot I like about the guy and his writings. His crusade against marriage is saving many men from lives of agonising torment, and that should be lauded and respected. His overall principles on taking responsibility, being outcome independent and living in a way that makes one happy instead of for someone else, who may not have your best interests in mind, is great as meta-principles and I regularly check out his blog.

            I'd even go so far to say that he isn't willfully lying, but is just delusional. I've been to Portland for a weekend some years ago and I never saw one 8, and my friend and I had to go to a strip club to see 7s. So his standards probably dipped to accommodate the surroundings. But of course there is no such thing as a 37 year old 8, as well, and I've never known anyone personally who could get 8s from online/tinder. Apparently that Jack guy who comes here does but he admits to being very good looking.

            So I'd go so far to say that it's unfortunate that Krauser managed to catch on to this, and make a big deal out of it, whereas I think anyone with a critical eye will just think of his inflated quality claims as just cute, and otherwise learn from his principles and writings on lifestyle to establish a comfortable happy life with a regular stress-free supply of above average pussy with very minimal time and effort invested.

            It's also unfortunate that BD is claiming that prostitutes are actually not, and I would have liked to just see him admit "yeah sometimes I want girls hotter than I can usually get and am too busy on my mission to spend effort to try to get them naturally so I buy prostitutes off seekingarrangement". There is nothing wrong with that and indeed since he is now trying to be less cocky as a pua (which he apologised for before), and more as giving lifestyle advice, it would be accepted. Again I've seen it before that men are deluded into thinking SA girls are enjoying sex with them, so again I don't think he's lying, just deluded, so it's more unfortunate than it is nefarious. And indeed anyone with a critical eye can just recognise he's just finding ways to get the most pleasure for the least effort, getting different kinds of sex at different levels of effort.

            Comment


            • #38
              I assume this is no surprise, but I know BD fairly well. He is in my speed dial list on my phone, and is a Facebook friend. I see how he lives, and what he looks like. I have spent the last 8 years running this place with him.

              BD is a good looking guy, he has been lifting and dieting for many years now and has a solid manly appearance. His dress and grooming says Boss Class. He drives a recent vintage luxury sedan that is in the $60K US price range, and regularly posts shots from glamorous hotels in foreign cities where he is doing business. He has a confident, friendly, but no bullshit style of dealing with people. He is what most high value women are looking for. It doesn't matter what the average women on the street looks like in a large city. All large cities have high value women, and many of them look quite good well into their 30s. I doubt that he spends much time opening women in Starbucks. I have no idea who he is banging, because as a respectable businessman, he doesn't post stuff like that on Facebook. But, it is not like he is some loser, writing from his mom's basement. If he has any game at all, if he can put 10% of what he writes into action, it is likely he can get laid. So he pays for sex sometimes. So what. He has always said he gets his satisfaction from the sex, not the accomplishment of a well executed seduction. That was what the whole POS vs JOTH argument was about.

              At the bottom of all this is a small group of guys who hate BD, and can't seem to let it go.
              The older the violin, the sweeter the music. Augustus McCrae

              Comment


              • Teevster

                Teevster

                commented
                Editing a comment
                Why would a man like that stick to the dating industry, which has not exactly known as a gold mine? Especially considering that his site is not doing well in regards to traffic? It had a serious drop in traffic recently and was never highly ranked in the first place.

                And no it is absolutely not a small group that dislikes BD. He is afterall the Blackswan of mASF - hence the nickname "Quackdragon"

              • Bismarck

                Bismarck

                commented
                Editing a comment
                Bossmen don’t use prostitutes or create scam-businesses, feeding off naive men’s insecurities for their own profit.

                Quackdragon is a farce, and it is farcical that you should still defend this TotH vs PoS dichotomy ST, considering it only exists in QD’s mind.

            • #39
              Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
              The idea that one dude that did and got laid of day game and did and got laid of social circle, then try night game (did not like him due to waking up late, noise etc... his personal feelings) and saw online game as a niche he could be good at and exploit does not mean online game = prostitution...
              Exactly how I think.

              Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
              About online game vs the other forms of games:

              Online skips the approach anxiety (though i experience a bit of texting anxiety online) , online by passes the live opening and the cockblocking........

              online does not require you to isolate.

              Online you are dealing i would argue with a lot more competition

              You may get a missrepresentation of the pics (1 to 2 points lower than the pics)
              True

              Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
              HERE IS ANOTHER ONE, not every fucking dude is attracted to 18-24 which is the club demographic, some fucking dudes are looking for a long term matting strategy (wowow skills i know a revolutionary concepts)
              Amen. I prefer older women, as above 28.
              Does that make anyone bad at seduction?

              Plus that's one of my beefs with BD, that absurd claim that it's harder to fuck women above 30s from online/cold approach (never had a problem with that)

              Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
              Not everybody is in cali or Miami or ny were you may see more older women out.
              Older women are migrating to online. Fact.
              I can flip my phone, go to tinder, and get 5 matchs a day with women my age who are 7s, with the ocasional 8 in between..

              Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
              Why a lot of guys look down on online? Cause they suck at texting, they suck at online, they are not good at it...They do not have written charisma.... They are proficient at other games, but have not master online.....
              Online is boring to any good seducer.
              This is why they don't take time to get really good at it.
              It kills the most fun part of the process, and puts you on the passengers seat without any control for the interaction.
              Plus the quality is lower, you can't argue against that.


              Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
              ^ so basically they are doing what bd is doing, bd is not proficient at cold approach so for years made some strawmans and plesure of sex and pleasure of thrill garbage rationalizations etc... (though the concepts are somewhat ok, they were used to justify stuff, my opinion)
              This was really childish on his part.

              Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
              in before "every body agrees online quality is lower"

              in before "online is not what the community was founded on" (dude we are in 2019, Todd rsd met his main online, Maxx met his girl online, I can go on and on, a lot of public seducers in the closet about this shit, pe fuck one of the hottest girl he ever had from online)
              The exceptions make the rule man.
              Overall the quality is lower.
              The hottest chicks I've fucked in my life are not from online, and I guess most guys who do or did both with any degree of sucess can say the same.
              personal blog: https://realpob.wordpress.com/

              Comment


              • #40
                About the quality of his girls, an easy way to attest that was if he just temporary posted or PMed some trustful guys a picture of his wife and current FBs.
                That legal BS would not apply, and he could get flack (or not) in a fair manner.

                But to say he is a KJ is clearly an overstatement, because he helps guys get laid, whether you like him or not.

                As a personal opinion, based purely on assumption, I'd say his wife is probably a solid 8 for her age, and the girls he fucks are 7s and 8s, as most guys that do online can't go beyond that quality range.
                personal blog: https://realpob.wordpress.com/

                Comment


                • #41
                  Originally posted by Teevster View Post
                  Now concerning the PUA's look:

                  I match with far better and hotter women IRL than online, which is why I don't like Tinder or Online. I don't even get a chance with the hot tinder girls. I match only with average looking girls (I don't swipe yes on UG's)

                  So for pua's, matching with ugly girls online does not mean he will deal with the same quality IRL.
                  -Teevster
                  This is core to online.
                  Even on "regular sites" this phenomenon occurs.
                  Unless you're really good looking, the 9s and above won't even look at you, and the 8s are gonna give you a run for you money.
                  And I don't care about top quality pics, once she sees you live you still have to deliver on the looks department.

                  But if I go to any bar, I get 8s checking upon me left and right without me doing nothing.

                  P.S. I recently did a 10 day experience on a swingers site a friend of mine suggested.
                  The quality was shit, but they had some babes there.
                  Got some numbers but boy, once I saw their face they were ugly.
                  Was able to go out with a chubby 4 who looked like a 7, asked her how many messages she was getting per day
                  "I don't know, 30 or so..."
                  For a chubby 4!!!
                  It's insane!!!

                  Now imagine the top quality chicks...they were prob not answering me because my texts were buried beneath 2000 clingers stalking them.
                  Waste
                  of
                  time
                  personal blog: https://realpob.wordpress.com/

                  Comment


                  • Subterfuge

                    Subterfuge

                    commented
                    Editing a comment
                    you get 8's checking you out in bars but you don't match with 8's on tinder? That's odd. Maybe it's because on tinder she can choose ridiculously handsome guys like 10's, but in the bar, you might well be the best looking dude there? (you must be handsome if 8's check you out). Is that the reason do you think? Basically, choice?

                  • Logic&Reason

                    Logic&Reason

                    commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I'm the same. I turn heads in person all the time, I have a very strong presence in general. But I'm not all that photogenic, photographers always say I'm a hard subject to shoot, that my in-person essence doesn't translate well to the camera.

                    Its been hypothesized that the 20/80 rule applies to human mating, that 20% of guys fuck 80% of girls. I would hypothesize that online, where girls are given a massive selection advantage, its closer to 7/93.

                    In person, I'm in that 20% to a huge number of girls. Online, I'm not in that 7% to a huge number of girls.

                    I still do well online, when the occasional hot girl does bite I know how to seal it more times than not (very strong text game), but there's really no comparison.

                • #42
                  Originally posted by Silvertree View Post
                  I am getting really tired of people trashing Blackdragon on this site. He is the reason we have this site. When masf went down the crapper, he stepped up and financed building a new home for this community. All the people who constantly bitch about him, and attack him when he posts here could have put up $20 each, each year and paid for a site, and very likely I would have volunteered to help set it up...

                  BUT YOU DIDN'T!

                  Please, show a little courtesy to our benefactor.
                  There needs to be a policy on this. Either BD is treated like anyone and everyone else, or he's off limits because he owns the forum. Decide, make it policy, and then that's that. Playing the courtesy card is kinda BS.

                  Comment


                  • #43
                    POB I already said this many times, the quality on online and irl is THE SAME.... The same girls you find in day game, you find in night game you find in club game same...


                    Difference is access in real life you may have access to hotter girls that you will totally not match or will not like you online...

                    Is easier in real life to punch above the belt.....


                    For example in night game i can get me a 23 year old girls even an 18 year old, at least i have a shot...

                    ^ that will never happen online, unless sugar daddy game or unless i lie about my age (but again both possible)


                    so the right word to use is access for accuracy purposes


                    Comment


                    • #44
                      Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
                      POB I already said this many times, the quality on online and irl is THE SAME.... The same girls you find in day game, you find in night game you find in club game same...


                      Difference is access in real life you may have access to hotter girls that you will totally not match or will not like you online...

                      Is easier in real life to punch above the belt.....


                      For example in night game i can get me a 23 year old girls even an 18 year old, at least i have a shot...

                      ^ that will never happen online, unless sugar daddy game or unless i lie about my age (but again both possible)


                      so the right word to use is access for accuracy purposes
                      Yes everyone's online now. When people say "the quality is lower online" then mean it in regards to who they're able to interact with. That they can hook and pull a 9 in real life that 20 minutes earlier would have swiped left on them online.

                      Online you lose presence, attitude, body language, eye contact, presence-based style, the ability to approach/interact with whoever you like, tone of voice, conversation ability, physicality, attracting pre-approach attention, many forms of social proof, etc etc etc. All extremely valuable tools in pulling the top shelf girls.

                      Comment


                      • #45
                        Originally posted by Logic&Reason View Post

                        Yes everyone's online now. When people say "the quality is lower online" then mean it in regards to who they're able to interact with. That they can hook and pull a 9 in real life that 20 minutes earlier would have swiped left on them online.
                        Yes ^ correct! exactly my point...


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