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  • #61
    Two things . . .

    .

    1) About your "hotness" . . . what dress size are you? If you are a Size-6 or smaller, YOU'RE HOT.

    2) The fact of the matter about your predicament is that YOU are trying to solve a problem that really only your listless, gutless pathetic ex-husband can fix. Your kids need an active, involved father, not a more-involved mother. I have this fantasy about me & BD & JWS & JSJim, et al., storming into you ex's living room and working him over verbally and physically, detailing the painful and dire consequences he'll suffer if he doesn't start acting like a father who gives a crap about the children he has sired.


    All you can do, Lovergirl, is your best.


    ---Linguinator

    Comment


    • #62
      My mother tackled me through a door. Didn't do shit for me. I think I was worse afterwards.
      My father wasn't really around much so I never gave a fuck about him.

      Other male figures are what kept me grounded, from becoming what I would of became. The monstrous thug.

      Comment


      • #63
        Not much time to respond to everyone yet, but wanted to give another update.

        Yesterday my son and a friend left the school after breakfast and were truant. I managed to get him to go back to school after he lied and told me he was at school and then had a friend pretend to be a teacher on the phone (eyeroll). For that he got in school suspension for a day.

        THEN (also yesterday) he got another day of ISS due to "reading aloud in class when the teacher told them to read silently and causing the entire room to disrupt into chaos". Apparently he was reading a book with instructions on how to steal a chicken and was reading it out loud to make everyone laugh.

        Okay, so I was kind of relieved that he would be spending today in ISS. He likes it there and says the teacher is cool. However he called me this afternoon to tell me he has 5 days OUT of school suspension. I later found out this was because he flipped off his math teacher behind his back and the school secretary saw him, like yesterday or the day before. However he was the only one who called me and then he texted saying he actually had ISS instead of OSS and I couldn't get anyone on the phone so I drove up to the school. I got there right around the time school was letting out and the secretary said my son had just been seen leaving with some boys. They tried to page him back to the office. Meanwhile he was trying to get on a bus with another kid and the principal told him he couldn't so he went and tried to get on his own bus. The principal had recieved a text that I was there so told him no, he needs to go to the office. My son got angry with the principal and told him "Fuck you, I'm done with this shit" and took off walking. Another teacher tried to stop him and he told her to fuck off too. Shortly afterwards I saw him and picked him up and drove him home and he told me what had happened.

        In the meantime in the office I had found out for sure that he had OSS for 5 days and that there is another alternative school where he can go for his days of OSS but he had told them he didn't want to do that. A teacher had also given me his homework and said she'd have the principal call me later.

        So the principal calls me and now my son has technically 15 days of out of school suspension, only they aren't supposed to be able to give that much at a time. So I have to go in next week for a meeting with the principal and superintendent and my son and who knows who else to discuss him going to an alternative school. Apparently there are two different ones and my son is really against going to the one that he would go to during OSS (assuming I want to take him and I think I do). He says that school is for "nerds" and the other one is the behavioral disordered kids. I don't know but my next door neighbor works with behavioral and has also done gifted kids in the public school system so may have to ask him. In any case he's been in school less than 4 weeks. I think being put in an alternative school that fast is probably some kind of record.

        Oh, and he informed me that in his short time at school today when he wasn't in the office he "got five chicks numbers". :P

        And now we are here at home and the kids were watching Curious George on PBS. Its an episode where he is in Kindergarten and makes a mess of everything in the classroom and my son is saying how that is so wrong he would have gotten so much OSS for that and how if he'd even hung his backpack up wrong he probably would get OSS. :P

        OH and I called his dad and told him everything and then told him that the principal had told me that he spoke with my son today and that he expressed a lot of anger about his dad not spending time with him and leaving the family. So I told my ex all about this and he said "ok, bye" and hung up the phone. :/

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Linguinator View Post
          .

          1) About your "hotness" . . . what dress size are you? If you are a Size-6 or smaller, YOU'RE HOT.

          2) The fact of the matter about your predicament is that YOU are trying to solve a problem that really only your listless, gutless pathetic ex-husband can fix. Your kids need an active, involved father, not a more-involved mother. I have this fantasy about me & BD & JWS & JSJim, et al., storming into you ex's living room and working him over verbally and physically, detailing the painful and dire consequences he'll suffer if he doesn't start acting like a father who gives a crap about the children he has sired.


          All you can do, Lovergirl, is your best.


          ---Linguinator
          1. I wear a size 4.

          2. Sigh...I wish I could fix things, I really do. I am doing the best I can day by day, I definitely don't have all the answers. As for my ex... the guy I have been seeing for 4 1/2 yrs (yeah, we are talking again, lol) has a similar attitude. When I tell him this stuff he is just like WTF and wants to come down here and meet my ex and his girlfriend personally. He says he won't do anything too crazy but that he thinks it would be good for them to see him with me and that there is nothing worse for a man than to see another man stepping in to help with his children and that he thinks that might make a difference with my ex. I don't know, honestly I don't know if it would make any difference with him. He just doesn't seem to care at all. I wonder if it would just make him feel relieved. He doesn't seem to want any responsibility and might be happy to hand it over.

          Comment


          • #65
            Women never seem to really grasp that men don't usually give a shit about some OTHER guy's kid. Women seem to be able to extend their mothering instinct to other kids fairly easily- notice how some women always seem to end up taking care of a bunch of kids that aren't theirs?

            Men don't do that. So, it's pointless to expect your ex to step up and be a father figure for your son. You also just have to face the fact that you aren't the kind of hardass mom that it takes to raise your son.

            Here's your problem- There is no solution that you can force upon your son. If it's not something he is on board for, then he isn't going to do it. For example: Let's say you tell him "All right mister- it's off to alternative school for you!"
            He says, "Fuck that shit. It's for nerds and faggots. I'm not going."

            Now, you can't beat him. It won't work. He's too strong willed, and the time that it would have worked is past.

            Same with ANY OTHER OPTION. If he doesn't want/like military school, he'll just run away.

            So, you've go to find the carrot. The carrot is something he really, really wants and is on board with in a big way. If I were you, I'd have an adult conversation with him. That will be nearly impossible for you, because you are female. You have too much emotion invested in him, and he will say shit that will "set you off" or deflect the whole point (so they wont have to face you). You might be better off getting a good shrink or counselor to have the conversation with him. But basically the conversation would go like this:

            "You've been kicked out of school for 2 weeks. I know, and you know, that it won't be long before you get expelled. So, I think we can both agree that the public education system isn't an option. I can't home school you with 4 other kids to take care of. The options on the table are military school if I can swing financial aid, or a boys ranch where you can get away from home and maybe work things out in a different environment. You need to tell me what you think would be best. I don't see any other option. I'm sorry, but you're one fucked up kid. A lot of that is my and your dads fault. But if you were able to get yourself under control, man up, and start acting like a responsible, worthwhile human being, we wouldn't be having this conversation. So, I can tell you this: an option that ISN'T on the table is for you to stay home sitting around an not doing jack shit except watching TV and playing video games. If we can't come up with a solution, I'm packing your bags and giving you a bus ticket to go to your Dad. You can use it, or cash it in and set out on your own.

            That, as I see it, is the only card you have left- the fear that he wont have a home and will be alone in the world. Because I assume his dad will turn him away if he shows up at his door, which he is probably aware of. That might incentivize going to a boys ranch or military school where he will get the kind of structure and discipline he needs.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by JetSetJim View Post
              Women never seem to really grasp that men don't usually give a shit about some OTHER guy's kid. Women seem to be able to extend their mothering instinct to other kids fairly easily- notice how some women always seem to end up taking care of a bunch of kids that aren't theirs?

              Men don't do that. So, it's pointless to expect your ex to step up and be a father figure for your son. You also just have to face the fact that you aren't the kind of hardass mom that it takes to raise your son.

              Here's your problem- There is no solution that you can force upon your son. If it's not something he is on board for, then he isn't going to do it. For example: Let's say you tell him "All right mister- it's off to alternative school for you!"
              He says, "Fuck that shit. It's for nerds and faggots. I'm not going."

              Now, you can't beat him. It won't work. He's too strong willed, and the time that it would have worked is past.

              Same with ANY OTHER OPTION. If he doesn't want/like military school, he'll just run away.

              So, you've go to find the carrot. The carrot is something he really, really wants and is on board with in a big way. If I were you, I'd have an adult conversation with him. That will be nearly impossible for you, because you are female. You have too much emotion invested in him, and he will say shit that will "set you off" or deflect the whole point (so they wont have to face you). You might be better off getting a good shrink or counselor to have the conversation with him. But basically the conversation would go like this:

              "You've been kicked out of school for 2 weeks. I know, and you know, that it won't be long before you get expelled. So, I think we can both agree that the public education system isn't an option. I can't home school you with 4 other kids to take care of. The options on the table are military school if I can swing financial aid, or a boys ranch where you can get away from home and maybe work things out in a different environment. You need to tell me what you think would be best. I don't see any other option. I'm sorry, but you're one fucked up kid. A lot of that is my and your dads fault. But if you were able to get yourself under control, man up, and start acting like a responsible, worthwhile human being, we wouldn't be having this conversation. So, I can tell you this: an option that ISN'T on the table is for you to stay home sitting around an not doing jack shit except watching TV and playing video games. If we can't come up with a solution, I'm packing your bags and giving you a bus ticket to go to your Dad. You can use it, or cash it in and set out on your own.

              That, as I see it, is the only card you have left- the fear that he wont have a home and will be alone in the world. Because I assume his dad will turn him away if he shows up at his door, which he is probably aware of. That might incentivize going to a boys ranch or military school where he will get the kind of structure and discipline he needs.
              If I tell him he's going to alternative school he will go. He's not THAT rebellious. If I say you are going to military school he may flip out and throw hours long fits and threaten not to go but I'm pretty sure I could get him to do so. I mean he stays here when he is grounded even though he screams and complains about it. A boys ranch would be expensive just like military school, I know I used to work in one (maybe not AS expensive but they are still costly)! The only difference being if the kids got sent there due to a court order or they were wards of the state and I don't want it to get to that point.

              Also, we just recently got TV, like while the Olympics were going on. The professor hooked it up. We don't have video games (other than one Spiderman plug in thing we got recently and that is for the younger kids) and never had TV in my son's life until we got one just to watch movies on about 6 months ago. My kids weren't even allowed to watch Disney movies until he was like 9. When he's at home he has to do chores and schoolwork and sometimes reads or fixes bikes or plays outside or is on his bike or skateboard. You really wouldn't expect a kid with his lifestyle to act the way he does.

              In any case, I see what you are saying and you are right there is probably no way I could threaten my son with that stuff or send him off with a ticket to nowhere (especially at age 12, when I could get in legal trouble and have child protective services on my ass). I'm not opposed to military school if I could swing it financially.

              His dad lives here in town, he is 15 minutes away. I have suggested to him that he go live there and he doesn't want to. Of course its really not an option anyway. My ex lives with his girlfriend who is always drunk and getting high and her disabled mother and three daughters and like 2 grandchildren that are occasionally there. One of the daughters was in juvenile detention recently and had her baby taken away by the state. Another one, that is 13, so just a year older than my son, is constantly getting in fist fights at school and kicked out of HER middle school. The 18 yr old daughter gets high with her mom and sits around smoking all day and she has a BEARD. lol Anyway, its totally ghetto over there and not a good environment for him I can guarantee. My ex pays no attention and would just ignore him while he did whatever the hell he wanted to and he'd act out MORE AND MORE just to try and get his attention.

              Comment


              • #67
                My newest update...sigh....

                Yesterday this 14 yr old kid who is bigger than me and who had run away recently and tried to trick me into letting him stay the night (I didn't fall for it) showed up at my door. Can't remember if I mentioned him to you all but my son had told me this kid stole 100 dollars from his stepdad and punched his stepdad in the eye and ran off. In any case my son ran outside to talk to him and asked if he could run over to this kids house to get a part for his bike. I said no you are grounded and not allowed to go anywhere. So the minute I turned my back he and the kid were gone. I tried calling him and texting him to no avail for FOUR HOURS. He answered a couple of texts a few hours in but wouldn't say where he was, then was like "GOD, I'm on my way home and almost there" and he didn't show up for over an hour after that.

                Anyhow I had texted him that I was shutting off his calls and texts to anyone but his father or I (and I did that so now he can only call or text me or his dad). I also called his father and managed to get him to come here to the house and wait for him. I told him I wanted him to take our son for the weekend so that I can make the point that he is not welcome in my home if he doesn't follow my rules and scare him into thinking he may not be able to live here anymore (he hates going to his dads and wants to stay with me). He didn't talk much but he came and waited. SO when my son got here I handed him his toothbrush and deodorant and wouldn't let him come in the house and told him I need to seriously think about what I am going to do with him but for now he is staying with his dad. He begged me to give him one more chance and I said I really don't know I need time to think about it and he finally went and got in the car with his dad (who just sat there and said nothing).

                So he stayed the night there last night and he texted me that he is sorry. The first time I responded that he had really stressed me out and that I spent all that time worrying about him and trying to get things done when I needed to be doing other things. I said he was very rude and disrespectful and that I can't have that. He texted me that he was sorry again and I didn't respond. I wanted him to worry. It was hard for me to do and I feel bad but I still haven't spoken with him.

                At 10 am his dad texted me asking if he can bring him home now (UGGGHHH....makes me wanna bang my head against the freaking wall, I had TOLD him that I didn't want our son back until Monday morning when he goes to work). I said that we are trying to make a point here and he needs to keep him until Monday. He was like "but I have things I need to get done and can't do with him here". Seriously? He's not working and the child is almost 13. I said I'm sure you can manage. (I do virtually everything with 5 kids and he can't do anything with just one??). Grrrrr....

                What really frustrates me is that my ex knows darn well what I am trying to do and should be on board! He worked with me in the boot camp style boys home as a houseparent and then spend 6 yrs working in a group home that was an extension of the Juvenile Detention center here in town. I mean, its not like this is a new concept or anything, he just DOESN'T CARE about his OWN son! Its making me so angry.

                In any case he reluctantly agreed to keep him but was like this is going to cause him problems getting to work on Monday morning and he will have to bring him here at 5 am. I said that's fine. I'm not giving in and just letting my son come home. Hopefully his dad has made some effort to back me up but I doubt it.

                Comment


                • #68
                  I have read that child protective services hae had great success in several countries with a project where they instead of having direct contact with the kid(s) itself/themselves only couch the parents on how to get them under control and thriving. At all times 24/7 someone is available for the parents to call and get help in how they themselves can talk to and act with their kids. Over time this model is very successful in helping the parents themselves regain control. You might look into finding someone who works with problem kids to coach you.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Wudang View Post
                    I have read that child protective services hae had great success in several countries with a project where they instead of having direct contact with the kid(s) itself/themselves only couch the parents on how to get them under control and thriving. At all times 24/7 someone is available for the parents to call and get help in how they themselves can talk to and act with their kids. Over time this model is very successful in helping the parents themselves regain control. You might look into finding someone who works with problem kids to coach you.

                    That is interesting. I hate to have CPS involved in my life for so many reasons but I have heard they have programs where they help coach parents here with wayward teens so I do think they probably have something like that. Its just a fear of what kind of person you would get and whether they would be making judgements or actually trying to help. CPS has a reputation for abusing their power that makes people leery of them (including me, and I even interned with them back in college). I'm a little unsure about the CPS here too after having the counselor hotline them when my 6 year old was molested by his cousin. NO ONE ever showed up!! So the counselor called them again, and I called them and spoke with people twice. NOTHING. They are supposed to come within 72 hrs when there is a hotline like that (24 if it is an emergency but in this case I am keeping him far away from the cousin and that family). Its been like 3 months.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      About CPS . . .

                      .


                      I like Wudang's general idea of getting help from people who have a good track record of helping parents, but in many states, CPS has well-deserved reputation for completely fucking over the lives of parents AND kids. Keep in mind that CPS has more authority and less accountability than the police. They can take your kids from you and leave you NO OPTIONS other than to act like their lap dog and supplicate to their authority and requirements -- which may or may not be reasonable, depending on their mood that day. They can be authoritarian, officious, self-important, unfair, abusive and downright cruel to both you AND the kids. I've heard stories in my state that would make you want to start an armed revolution. I shitchu not. I've heard stories of such unbelievable abuse by CPS I've wondered why more parents aren't in jail for murdering CPS "workers." Yes, the stories are THAT bad -- in my state. CPS might be very helpful and constructive in your state.

                      Before you contact CPS, ask a buncha people in your state/locality about what they are like.


                      ---Linguinator

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Just skimmed everything. I'm no parent, but I've done plenty of child-care stuff, and pretty much raised three of my younger cousins when they lived with me for ~5 years. The youngest reminds me a bit of your son.

                        Originally posted by Lovergirl View Post
                        He talks to me about virtually everything and tells me a lot more than most kids tell their parents (probably due to having been homeschooled so long). I read your question though and asked my son when he felt like the last time he and I had a good discussion where he wasn't in trouble was and he said "I don't know we do that all the time... I know I am not as hard on him as a man would be. I TRY to be hard on him but its really not my nature at all... I do get stressed out and I do have a hard time being hard core mean to my child... I admit I am not fond of "the system" but I do try to back them up with my son. So far I have stuck to consequences...

                        At some point you have to take into account that a child makes their own choices and has their own personality... I have struggled with him from day one because he challenged everything so hard. He got disciplined A LOT when he was younger and I was able to control him that way but once he got too old for me to physically control it was not so easy.
                        That quote is from multiple posts, if you're confused.

                        Reading this, it's hard not to take BD's view, but I'm not going to since I really don't know you and can't confirm he's right. I do disagree with a few posters here that women or mothers can't be hardasses. They definitely can be. I've met them and they're scary... and kinda sexy, but that's beside the point. The point is can you be a hardass? It's obvious that you have a decent idea of what to do and that you're trying-- you just have to succeed.

                        You and your son have a very close relationship. That's great. The kid needs a connection. It's a fine line between an authority figure and a friend, though, and I think you're flirting with it. You two both don't like the system, sure, but don't let that blind you. Everything's a fucking system. School, jobs, life. You need to play the game. If your son is as smart as you describe him, he should be able to understand this fact, even at 12.

                        I'm going to be a little harsh. You need to tell your son to stop being a selfish little bitch. There's 4 other children you need to raise, too. He's unecissarilly creating stress and worry just because he doesn't like authority. That's bullshit. He's one person in a planet of 7 billion people and he's contributed essentially nothing to anyone, ever, in his entire life.

                        But that last part is OK. He's a kid. He doesn't need to be doing volunteer work for puppies, yet-- however, you need to communicate why his actions are hurting probably the only person who has any incentive or drive to help him.

                        He probably won't get it. Not at first. But keep reminding him. Keep pointing out exactly how his actions are affecting you and the rest of his family. Eventually, with enough repetition and some luck-- it might start to sink in.

                        At the same time, you can no longer be his friend. The father who was supposed to be there isn't, so now you don't have the luxury of tag-teaming good cop and bad cop. You can't be both a friend and an authority figure, so you're going to have to be what he needs most: an authority figure. Be prepared for him to stop liking you so much. He might even hate you. That's ok. He doesn't need to like you. He just needs to respect you.

                        It will hurt. It will be hard. But that's what needs to happen.

                        Originally posted by JetSetJim View Post
                        "You've been kicked out of school for 2 weeks. I know, and you know, that it won't be long before you get expelled. So, I think we can both agree that the public education system isn't an option. I can't home school you with 4 other kids to take care of. The options on the table are military school if I can swing financial aid, or a boys ranch where you can get away from home and maybe work things out in a different environment. You need to tell me what you think would be best. I don't see any other option. I'm sorry, but you're one fucked up kid. A lot of that is my and your dads fault. But if you were able to get yourself under control, man up, and start acting like a responsible, worthwhile human being, we wouldn't be having this conversation. So, I can tell you this: an option that ISN'T on the table is for you to stay home sitting around an not doing jack shit except watching TV and playing video games. If we can't come up with a solution, I'm packing your bags and giving you a bus ticket to go to your Dad. You can use it, or cash it in and set out on your own.
                        This is exactly the kind of thing you need to start doing.

                        Originally posted by Lovergirl View Post
                        If I tell him he's going to alternative school he will go. He's not THAT rebellious. If I say you are going to military school he may flip out and throw hours long fits and threaten not to go but I'm pretty sure I could get him to do so. I mean he stays here when he is grounded even though he screams and complains about it... In any case, I see what you are saying and you are right there is probably no way I could threaten my son with that stuff or send him off with a ticket to nowhere...
                        Good. He listens to you-- but you're seriously going to need to steel your nerves if you're going to do anything. I'd rather send my youngest cousin to the ranch than to the possible alternatives.

                        Good luck.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Hey, I'll try to respond better later, my grandma is here so busy this week and can't post much. As a little update, he's been temporarily at an alternative school while he is expelled and they are having a hard time with him there. Apparently he always has to be the center of attention and is bouncing off the walls. I know my son probably has ADHD, among possible other things. I am becoming more and more convinced that he needs to be on medication or something to make it through school. The teachers say he's very popular and likeable, even they LIKE him and have a hard time not laughing at his antics but he's just obnoxious. I've set up an appt with a neuropsychologist but its a couple months away. If someone cancels I may be able to get in sooner. I am sure some of his behavior is circumstancial but I just can't believe ALL of it is. Even as a baby he had to have an extreme amount of attention and wouldn't take more than 20 minute naps and was very wound up all the time. It was entertaining back then but now its getting to be too much.

                          Its been thrown out as a suggestion by both the counselor and the superintendent of schools to take him down to the Juvenile office and get him assigned an officer but I admit that makes me worried they'll just be more likely to throw him in detention. I've also been told by the counselor if he runs off or throws a big fit I can take him into the mental hospital or one of the local hospitals that has a children's division and they will have him evaluated. If I don't get him in to the other place soon it may come to that. Also, the counselor gave me a drug test to give him since he's been claiming he smokes pot but we aren't sure if he is just saying that. Anyhow one day after claiming he had gotten high (he said a kid came by here and smoked with him) despite being here grounded at the house I tested him to be sure and it was negative (EYEROLL). I think he's full of it but you just never know when he is and when he isn't.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Lovergirl View Post
                            Snip
                            Honestly now it just seems like he's doing stuff to get attention. Attention, regardless of it being negative.

                            Honestly instead of trying to get the father involved, cut the father out. Doubt he'll try any sort of legal action, if he does, claim he would not help with your oldest being bad at school/doing "bad" things. Document the texts you send/receive. Show no emotion towards him or distressed and in court it will look positive in your favor.

                            Now that "pops" is out of the way, smother him with positive attention (talking to him positively/material items/hugging him) or give him no attention at all. YOU NEED TO BE CONSISTENT(though you may want to stick with PA instead of NA cause NA can backfire). You have two options for dealing with the school. Take him out and home school him or tell them he needs to be moved to classes with a smaller size so he can focus on school work.

                            The end goal is to get him to focus. Show him love AND show him how he is HURTING you.

                            I know where your son is coming from, since I was in a similar position in high school. If I didn't have a positive figure in my life to talk to about anything, any problems, I'd probably be in jail for selling or murder.

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