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Why the community is totally wrong about "foolsmate"

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  • Why the community is totally wrong about "foolsmate"

    I have no idea who first coined this word for PU, maybe mystery method/RSD?

    But it's so completely off the mark it irritates me!

    It implies that you MUST do x,y and z before you lay a girl, running "tight game" in the process.

    And if you get her without doing that then its a "foolsmate".

    Absolute tosh, in my opinion.

    It's not "foolsmate", its smooth and natural seduction at it's finest.

    This how naturals get laid. This how people get laid in the real world.

    Calling it "foolsmate" completely denies the role natural chemistry (i.e. when a girl likes you instinctively) plays in people having sex.


    As i always said, the guys who get laid a lot have a VERY sharp nose for girls who like them,
    they immediately swoob in on those girls and seal the deal. That is how they get the bulk of their lays.

    And it's how any aspiring player wants to end up in the long run.


    Would love to hear what you fellas think.

  • #2
    The whole "foolsmate" concept originates from "form over substance", OCD ridden, Asperger afflicted geeks. And I don't mean this in an offensive way. Seriously, I can't fathom how anyone can think that just because they didn't abide by a bunch of rules (mostly arbitrary, mind you), that the lay they got is somehow worthless. Even worse, sometimes these guys are getting laid but they fall victim to "cargo cult" mindsets, where they associate certain behaviors and techniques with getting laid, while in reality there is a multitude of other factors contributing to their success that they're not registering and processing.

    The whole "7 hours until the lay or it's foolsmate" is a ridiculous notion and everyone who ever got laid in much shorter timespans knows it's bullshit.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by cobi View Post
      Absolute tosh.
      Don't care about "foolsmate". Do care about "tosh". What's the backstory on that expression?

      I've alway been fascinated by British cursing.

      the guys who get laid a lot have a VERY sharp nose for girls who like them,
      they immediately swoob in on those girls and seal the deal. That is how they get the bulk of their lays.

      And it's how any aspiring player wants to end up in the long run.
      Pretty much. It's about becoming a guy a lot of girls will like sexually and about securing the lay with said girls.

      Would love to hear what you fellas think.
      Oh, no problem. I love the sound of my own voice. Glad to be of service.

      Because I Can, Nick

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by NiccoloDaVinci View Post
        Don't care about "foolsmate". Do care about "tosh". What's the backstory on that expression?

        I've alway been fascinated by British cursing.
        Lol, i have no idea about the backstory (probably victorian like everything else), but it means "rubbish" or "nonsense".

        peace

        Comment


        • #5
          That concept was meant for hardcore AFCs. It's ludicrous to you now, but 7 hours is a huge improvement over 3 dates and begging for sex

          Comment


          • #6
            Something that I've developed in the last few months is that I've found myself being more of a pragmatist when it comes to a lot of things. Almost everything actually. And with that in mind, the question I find myself asking a lot these days is, "How does this affect or change the outcome?" In this case, what you call or characterize something as has no actual effect on the outcome. So I disregard it and don't worry about it. So in a roundabout way, I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with you, but at a more existential level. Sorry for the long-winded and borderline weird reply. I've been in a thinking mood since the Pats lost to the Steelers a few hours ago.

            Comment


            • #7
              The vast majority of my new lays are well under 7 hours, and I would suspect that Mystery and Style (if they stopped playing the monogamy game and got back into sarging mode) would also be laying chicks in under 7 hours. Easily.

              You guys have to understand that the 7 hour rule and anything attached to it like fool's mate is extremely dated material. That's 10 year old stuff! The community has developed new techniques, made new distinctions, and learned new things since then.

              That's the biggest problem with Mystery Method and The Game. Not that they're wrong...they were extremely cutting edge for the time. It's that that they're old and outdated. That's why they should all be taken with a grain of salt.
              How to have 3 hour meet-to-lays and nonmonogamous relationships with any type of woman:
              The Blackdragon Blog

              Comment


              • #8
                Wow.. now you're making me feel old!



                Back when Mystery was preaching the woes of the "Fools Mate", about 8 years ago now, I went toe to toe with him on the concept..

                Here's something I wrote in 2004 called - "Dispelling the Myth of the Fool's Mate" pretty much agreeing totally with what you're saying.

                http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin...176159&refine=




                But in retrospect, I do give Mystery a lot of credit... While the majority of my SNL game completely and totally ignored the 7 hour concept, over time I realized it was vastly more reliable..

                For instance, in the case where I found myself one REALLY special bird.. like a 1 out of a 100 type of girl.. I would ALWAYS stick to the 7 hour window..

                Going in for the quick-kill can misfire.. If you don't mind losing that specific girl.. It's more than appropriate..

                But in the case of my current Wife.. when I caught the vibe that she was a major keeper- I just went for the long game, turning the temperature up a slow and predictable pace.

                When it's too important to blow, defaulting to the 7+ hour long game over a few days was always my call..

                The 40% chances of a quick lay could be raised to about a 90% close-rate in my situation.

                Not very time efficent, or fun.. but good to have in your pocket when you REALLY REALLY want that close.

                And also realize, Mystery was trying to create a replicatable mathematical seduction model. Something that could be applied to the masses..

                Not everyone has the inner-game to handle the quick 20 min kill.. If he stretched it out to 7 hours, he ended up having many more successful clients- and his product was more sanitary to the general public.

                $M

                Comment


                • #9
                  So you guys don't make girls wait for a few hours and just rock out with your cocks out? Mystery is going to be upset.

                  Originally posted by Blackdragon View Post
                  That's the biggest problem with Mystery Method and The Game. Not that they're wrong...they were extremely cutting edge for the time. It's that that they're old and outdated. That's why they should all be taken with a grain of salt.
                  Only if you are expecting to be spoonfed. The basic rules of picking up women are now known. I think its unlikely that any amount of repackaging is going to create a paradigm shift.

                  There was one substantial and important way in which Mystery Method was incomplete. There was a very under-appreciated post back in the old mASF about this, which I thought was pretty original (back in the day - now its all old hat):

                  http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin...64646307365420

                  This basic point is what leads to all this inane crap like 7-hour rule etc. Dominance is not the strong point of MM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I honestly think that a lot of the time, what is taught by pick up "coaches and what actually works in reall life are totally different.

                    So it's best you go out there and learn what works for you,
                    Try everything with an open mind till you nail down your own modus operandi.

                    Peace

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Vexxor View Post
                      The whole "7 hours until the lay or it's foolsmate" is a ridiculous notion and everyone who ever got laid in much shorter timespans knows it's bullshit.
                      This was seriously one of the only limiting beliefs the community instilled in me at the onset. I thought I was HOT SHIT because I could get laid in 7 hours when it previously took me about 3 weeks.

                      And then, I regularly started getting laid on first dates, averaging around 3 hours, and at the lowest, 50 minutes.

                      Well, either my game has progressed, or I was taught wrong. Probably both.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Vexxor View Post
                        The whole "7 hours until the lay or it's foolsmate" is a ridiculous notion and everyone who ever got laid in much shorter timespans knows it's bullshit.
                        Mystery never said that

                        the 7 hour number was the AVERAGE number according to his detailed tracking of years of dating. Just like BlackDragon is keeping detailed stats in his Excel sheets and he also has some average estimate, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to sex a chick within a much shorter timeframe, or that it won't take much much longer to reach that point

                        averages are mostly useless when it comes to predicting the future

                        -M

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cobi View Post
                          I have no idea who first coined this word for PU, maybe mystery method/RSD?

                          But it's so completely off the mark it irritates me!

                          It implies that you MUST do x,y and z before you lay a girl, running "tight game" in the process.

                          And if you get her without doing that then its a "foolsmate".

                          Absolute tosh, in my opinion.

                          It's not "foolsmate", its smooth and natural seduction at it's finest.

                          This how naturals get laid. This how people get laid in the real world.

                          Calling it "foolsmate" completely denies the role natural chemistry (i.e. when a girl likes you instinctively) plays in people having sex.


                          As i always said, the guys who get laid a lot have a VERY sharp nose for girls who like them,
                          they immediately swoob in on those girls and seal the deal. That is how they get the bulk of their lays.

                          And it's how any aspiring player wants to end up in the long run.


                          Would love to hear what you fellas think.
                          When I first got some success back in 2008, I doubted myself because I thought every girl I laid was 'foolsmate', like because she was already into me or something. It was some guys in the old mASF chat who had to explain to me that it was a load of nonsense. Being successful through preparation meeting opportunity means as much in game as anything else.

                          If I thought this, then there will be other new guys whose progress will be held back because they dismiss it as such. Could be an idea to work into any sort of 'you are new' page on here that a guy's success in seduction shouldn't be held up against such a concept.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by celtic View Post
                            When I first got some success back in 2008, I doubted myself because I thought every girl I laid was 'foolsmate', like because she was already into me or something. It was some guys in the old mASF chat who had to explain to me that it was a load of nonsense. Being successful through preparation meeting opportunity means as much in game as anything else.

                            If I thought this, then there will be other new guys whose progress will be held back because they dismiss it as such. Could be an idea to work into any sort of 'you are new' page on here that a guy's success in seduction shouldn't be held up against such a concept.
                            This is interesting. One of my very first lays after discovering mASF was a girl that I met online. She was on a break from her boyfriend and said she is looking only for a friend. But I made some excuse (I think it was that "the reception on the phone is not clear, so lets just hang out and talk") and got to her place after 20-30 minutes of talking on the phone. This was around 10-ish in the evening. An hour later I was fucking her. This is one of my first ASF lays, and my one-on-one game with her was basically right from Mystery's book.

                            I never thought that this 7-hour thing was anything more than a rough rule of thumb.

                            I guess the bigger problem is not that the seven-hour rule exists, but that guys take the "rules" they read here way too fucking seriously. I am sure five years from now there will be some other thread saying this or that thing 60 said is rubbish.

                            Most rules are meant to be broken according to the situation, and if you don't have the cojones to think outside the box, you will keep running from guru to guru. Instead, try to find your own way out: all you need is a solid grasp of the basics.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hangman View Post

                              This basic point is what leads to all this inane crap like 7-hour rule etc. Dominance is not the strong point of MM.
                              Well, at it's core- MM actually is pretty dominant. In the sense that 100% of the interactions are controlled by YOU- and you have to lead the entire process to a lay.

                              In terms of raw sexual dominance- You can always inject whatever you want to make it your own.

                              I filmed Mystery for awhile- and then Future who worked with him..
                              Future was an ex-marine so he brought all sorts of physical domination to MM..

                              Having seen lots of his students.. (and they even taught a workshop in my apartment once)

                              You can definitely teach most people mystery method.. and it surely works. (although i would never use a routine. improv is too fun and keeps it real)

                              You can't teach people sexual dominance.. and if you try, it's the most awkward thing on the planet with horrible in-field results.

                              That's one of those things you either have it, or you don't.

                              Mystery never had it..
                              But he compensated for dominance in many other areas.. to the point of total control

                              $M

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