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Root cause of AA? Fear of women (attn: illuminatus, sparxx)

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  • Root cause of AA? Fear of women (attn: illuminatus, sparxx)

    I was flipping through some of my old Osho books which I used to read before I got into pick up but wasn't interested in it at the time, could be useful now, I found this section on Fear of Women. Kind of reminds me of Trauma Release Exercises, and also what illuminatus said about tension.. He also talks about the breast, which is Circuit 1 imprint from Prometheus Rising. Osho also brings up why affirmations are not permanent.

    Question: In a Therapy group that i did recently, I discovered a lot of Violence in myself, and a Fear of women. My feeling is that the Fear of Women is connected with my birth, which I re-experienced In the group and Which was very Painful to me.

    Osho: They are all interdependent and connected. The fear of women is basically the fear of the mother. And everybody has to come to a reconciliation with the mother. Unless you are reconciled with the mother you will never be reconciled with any woman, because every woman again and again reminds you of your mother. Sometimes it may not be consciously, but unconsciously it will hit.

    And every birth is painful now. Civilisation has completely destroyed natural birth. No child is born naturally. The mother is so tense that she does not help the process of birth. In fact she starts obstructing it. She does not allow the child to go out. She starts closing her womb. This is in tune with the whole tense life that we are living. The modern idea, the basic idea on which all anxiety is founded, is that we have to fight with life and with nature. So it is nothing special to you. Every child more or less has suffered birth.

    So the only way is to relive it, to make it completely conscious again. Once you can live it consciously, you can understand and forgive your mother, because that poor woman was suffering. It is not that she has done anything to you. She was herself a victim. Nobody is at fault because the whole situation is faulty. She was loaded with her own birth and she again re-enacted it with you. That is the only way she knew how to do it. So once you become alert, conscious, aware, you can forgive. Not only that, you can feel compassion for her.

    Once compassion arises in you for your mother, reconciliation has happened. Then you don't carry any grudge. And dropping that grudge suddenly will help you towards other women. You will not be afraid; you will be loving. A woman is one of the most beautiful phenomena in the world; not to be compared with anything else. The woman is the masterpiece of god. So if you are afraid of woman, you will be afraid of god. You will be afraid of love, afraid of prayer. You will be afraid of all that is beautiful, because woman personifies beauty and grace.

    And once this happens -- that you start flowing towards feminine energy around you -- then your violence will disappear. Violence is nothing but the energy that has to become love and is not becoming love. Violence is nothing but love unlived. A violent person is one who has too much love-energy and does not know how to release it. Love is creative, violence is destructive, and creative energy turns into being destructive if not used. The group has made you aware of some very beautiful, meaningful things.

    Many people come to me. They say that they are afraid of women, very afraid. Because of that fear, they cannot make a meaningful relationship, they cannot relate; the fear is always there. When you are in fear, the relationship will be contaminated by the fear. You will not be able to move totally. You will relate halfheartedly, always afraid: the fear of being rejected, the fear that the woman may say no. And there are other fears.

    If this man goes on trying Emile Coue-type methods, if he goes on repeating, 'I am not afraid of women, and every day I am getting better,' if he tries such things he can suppress the fear temporarily, but the fear will be there and will come again and again and again. A man who is afraid of women shows that he must have had some experience with the mother which has caused fear, because the mother is the first woman. Your whole life you may be related with many women as wife, as mistress, as daughter, as friend, but the image of mother will persist.

    That is your first experience. Your whole structure of relationship with women will be based on that foundation, and that foundation is your relationship with your mother. So if a man is afraid of women, he has to be led back, he has to step backwards in memory, he has to go back and find the primal source from where the fear started. It may be an ordinary incident, very minor, he may have completely forgotten it. But if he goes back, he will find the wound some where.

    You wanted to be loved by the mother, as every child wants, but the mother was not interested. She was a busy woman. She had to attend many associations, clubs, this and that. She was not willing to give the breast to you because she wanted a more proportioned body. She wanted her breasts to be intact and not destroyed by you. She wanted her breasts to be always young so she denied the breast to you. Or, there may have been other problems in her mind. You were not an accepted child; like a burden you have come, never wanted in the first place.

    But the pill didn't work and you were born. Or, she hated the husband and you had the face of the husband -- a deep hatred, or something or other. But you have to go back and you have to become a child again. Remember, no stage of life is ever lost. Your child is still within you. It is not that the child becomes the young man, no. The child remains inside, the young man is imposed over it, then the old man is superimposed over the young man, layer by layer. The child never becomes the young man. The child remains there, a layer of young man comes over it.

    The young man never becomes the old; another layer, of old age, comes over it. You become like an onion -- many layers -- and if you penetrate, all the layers are Still there, intact. Primal Therapy helps people to go backwards and become children again. They kick, they cry, they weep, they scream, and the scream is no more of the present. It doesn't belong to the man right now, it belongs to the child who is hidden behind. When that scream, that primal scream comes, many things are immediately transformed.

    This is one part of the method of prati-prasav. Janov may not be aware that Patanjali, almost five thousand years ago, taught a system in which every effect had to be led to the cause. Only the cause can be resolved. You can cut the roots, and then the tree will die. But you cannot cut the branches and hope that the tree will die. The tree will thrive more. 'Prati-prasav' is a beautiful word; 'prasav' means birth. When a child is born it is prasav.

    Prati-prasav means you are again born in the memory, you go back to the very birth, the trauma when you were born, and you live it again. Remember, you don't remember it, you live it, you relive it again. Remembering is different. You can remember, you can sit silently, but you remain the man you are: you remember that you were a child and your mother hit you hard. That wound is there, but this is remembrance. You are remembering an incident as if it happened to somebody else. To relive it is pratiprasav.

    To relive it means that you become the child again. Not that you remember; you become the child again, you live it again. The mother is hitting you not in your memory, the mother hits you again right now: the wound, the anger, the antagonism, your shrinking back, the rejection, and your reaction, as if the whole thing is happening again. This is prati-prasav. And this is not only as Primal Therapy, but as a methodology for every seeker who is in search of the life abundant, of truth.

  • #2
    Ironic...a guy talking about the reasons behind the Fear Of Women, and in the same breath referring to them as "the masterpiece of God."

    Maybe you're afraid of them because you're making deities of regular humans?

    I'd be scared to speak to someone too, if I thought their presence in my life was Divine Intervention.

    And the reason his affirmation doesn't work is because it includes negatives like "I'm not afraid of women." The human mind cannot think about not being afraid of women without thinking about being afraid of women. It's an unresourceful loop.

    Whatever you do, DON'T think about a purple cartoon hippo sitting next to you. Eating a banana. In pajamas. Don't think about what it would look like, or how strange that would be, to have it sitting next to you there as you read this...perhaps reading over shoulder as it eats yet another un-peeled banana.



    • #3
      Your relationship to women is determined by the connection to your father.

      In your thread your father is not mentioned whereas females are exaggerated as divine, goodlike beings. Probably you were brought up by women, never got into intensive contact with your father and your mother did not respect your father. She probably badmouthed him, whenever she could. This made you doubt your father and even more the principle of the male and at the same time this cut your connection with the male energy.

      In order to solve your anxiety you must get into contact with the male. It is caused because you lack all the male things that you need to cope with women. Straighten out your relationship with your father. The more you can get connected with your father and the male energy, the less you will fear females.


      • #4
        I can write something about AA but the original post is a little to spiritual for me to comment much on.

        I dont think AA has just one cause.


        • #5
          Originally posted by sparxx View Post
          I can write something about AA but the original post is a little to spiritual for me to comment much on.

          I dont think AA has just one cause.
          Can you write about it?

          The only way I've been able to get rid of AA is if I do massive approaches, and the momentum carries onto the next day, this is the "desensitization" approach, and it's temporary because after a week or two of not doing any approaches you're back to square one. I generally have less AA now than a few years ago, I can approach girls at bars, and sometimes in grocery stores if I don't have momentum, it just takes a bit more will power / mentally pushing myself. The problem is, if I don't have any momentum, I will have some AA, and will miss out on the AI's I'm getting due to my AA.

          I would like to get rid of my AA through a different means than momentum/desensitization.


          • #6
            I think AA is just plain old social anxiety, and nothing to do with mom. However, the types of women your pursue and the style of your relationships are affected by your relationships with your parents.


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kraftmann View Post
              Your relationship to women is determined by the connection to your father.

              In your thread your father is not mentioned whereas females are exaggerated as divine, goodlike beings. Probably you were brought up by women, never got into intensive contact with your father and your mother did not respect your father. She probably badmouthed him, whenever she could. This made you doubt your father and even more the principle of the male and at the same time this cut your connection with the male energy.

              In order to solve your anxiety you must get into contact with the male. It is caused because you lack all the male things that you need to cope with women. Straighten out your relationship with your father. The more you can get connected with your father and the male energy, the less you will fear females.

              would LOVE to get OP response to this.. how accurate is the assessment?


              • #8
                Fear is an emotion set up to avoid potentially losing something.

                The "root" fear (which they all filter down to) is death -- or, more specifically, ceasing to exist (the ultimate loss). Yet there are layers of complexity built on top of this due to a human's ability to build and hold a "self-image" built of value-based concepts.

                "Ego" is a program set up to have you avoid loss of value in your self-image. Ego will pull all sorts of tricks on people's minds -- creating stories, lies and delusions -- all to stop them thinking in ways and doing actions which could reveal to them the "true" value of that component of their self-image. The self-image wants to remain intact, as a high-value self-image. The ego's job is to preserve the self-image's value ratings at all costs -- and to add to them where possible through "getting". It also writes its own narrative of your life in order to exaggerate "gains" and downplay "losses". It also uses rationalization to create fake gains and erase losses.
                Meditation and spirituality is all about revealing the inherent falsity or emptiness of the values one has assigned to aspects in one's self-image, in order to lose attachment to (stop assigning value to) that aspect.

                Life can be seen as one big journey of revealing the false assignments of value to concepts (these are your "attachments"). When you lose attachment, you lose fear -- because there is now nothing to "protect".

                So with AA you fear losing value in one or more aspect of your self-image. Some of these could be:

                A) Your sexual/reproductive value. The action of approaching to try and get sexual interest could potentially either confirm or deny the value you have currently assigned internally to your sexual appeal. So if get what you want, your self-worth is confirmed as being correctly assigned to your sexual appeal to women (= validation). If you don't get what you want, your sexual appeal is confirmed as being low. Since it's the ego's job to protect your self-image at all costs, it would simply rather have you preserve the current value assignment than going through an exercise which could result in a downgrade (loss of value). It's happier with the delusion. Reading lots of forums about pickup can be bad here because it artificially boosts your "sexual appeal" value in your self-image. The ego would rather have you continue to believe you're an expert than have you test this empirically (= potential loss).

                B) Your hierarchical standing against other men. A public rejection potentially lowers both your sexual worth in your self-image (point above) and your ability to compete for resources against other men. Once again, your ego would rather have you NOT confirm your "true" place -- it is happier with the delusion you have built for yourself (your self-image).

                C) Your intellectual value. Since most guys finding this stuff are of an intellectual bent, you likely have much of your intellectual self-image on your ability to collect, organize and execute new information. A rejection can reveal your intellectual incompetence. I personally have a lot of my self-image tied up in my intelligence, and I am positive many of you guys do, too -- so this is another delusion in your self-image: your intelligence somehow makes you "better". Your ego does not want this tested, as it would rather stick with the delusion.
                For most guys outside the community, who have barely thought about this stuff (perhaps emotionally but certainly not "systematically"/intellectually to the extent we do here), loss of intellectual value will likely not cross their mind. For smart guys however, this is just another part of the self-image you must drop your attachment to.

                D) Social/moral value. This is all about how you appear in others' eyes. This comes from culture (social conditioning). For some, approaching women makes them a "sleaze" or a "creep". This fear is all about retaining your moral "goodness" in your self-image. Also, if you believe having a wife or girlfriend is "normal", then you would want to avoid situations which could confirm to you that you cannot actually get one. So this is all about "fitting in" with other people -- your idea of what is "normal", and wanting to be seen as "normal".

                Maybe there are more? Have a think and add them here. I feel that most things will fit into one of these categories, however.

                For fans of the Eight-Circuit Model of Consciousness:

                A - Circuit I. We can also add "fear of violent repercussion" here, for those who particularly fear for their safety and have a "can't defend myself" script. These guys MUST learn martial arts and get beaten up in a safe environment such as MMA training in order to reveal the fallacy here and get some more rational threat assessments.

                B - Circuit II.

                C - Circuit III.

                D - Circuit IV.

                I have not yet come across a better model for describing human behaviour than the 8CM.

                So all fear comes from attachment. Most of these attachments are in the conceptual layer -- "What does this say about me?", but all those fears filter down to and have roots in biology. And all those roots in biology are attached to a "master root": fear of death (or ceasing to exist). Fear of failing to reproduce is fear of death coming direct from the genes who will cease to exist should copies of themselves not be made and passed on.

                The solution to all these fears is to lose your attachment to thing you are scared of losing or not having. Life can be seen as a series of experiences designed to have you lose attachment to each of your value concepts, by seeing the futility and falsity of the attachment to each one. The final attachment we all must face is our attachment to life, since we all die. So everything, at its root, is about attachment to existing, and fearing ceasing to exist.

                Brent Smith's take on AA, and indeed all anxieties, is that it all comes from trying to get something. Relating this back to what I wrote above, we can say that trying to get something is a "test" of one's internal self-image values against the external results "out there". Succeeding in getting = validation (the internal self-image is "correct"). Failing to get = loss (the self-image has to adjust its value downwards, and it hates doing that). Ego steps in to prevent this test from ever happening, because the potential of losing self-image value is far more worrying to it than potentially gaining something. It tends to focus on negatives with far stronger emotion than potential positives. It is conservative and wants to consolidate and preserve existing "resources", conceptual or tangible.

                We can visualize one's "internal value" as a meter which can go up or down. You "feel" what level this meter is on in your mood, energy, vibe. So if you're out on the town, ripping it up, having a great time, your meter is high. You feel pumped-up.
                If you're being anxious and wall-flowering and moping around on your own, your meter is low. You feel "empty" or "deflated". This is when guys go begging for attention/validation from women -- to "top up their meter". The women sense a "beggar" vibe and no one likes to give to beggars. It reminds us of being needy ourselves, and bums us out.
                Yet we all love winners, because we all want to be them. Winners get given loads of stuff all the time, because people want to spend more time with them in the hope that they can absorb some of their vibe / self-image value.

                People are unwilling to give generally because their world view is set up in such a way that to give something "lowers your meter". People only give if they are fairly sure they are going to get something back in return, and the sooner the better. So to approach a woman can be seen as "giving" something -- attention, your emotional investment, sometimes money if you haven't got out of that mindset yet -- but overall, you are putting your self-image value on the table. It's a gamble the ego is unwilling to take.

                Brent Smith's solution is to change one's world view entirely so that you never experience life in the ways I've just written about (which is how 99.9% of people do seem to experience life). Here is his solution, summarized:

                - Lose attachment to all things external. Do this by getting your fulfilment entirely from yourself so you are never "needing". He recommends "changing your story" via affirmations and visualizations such that your self-image is one of always being fulfilled. He also says that he feels connected to the universe -- it's the only connection he needs, and keeps him feeling fulfilled. So he does not feel the need to "connect" to women, or to other people, in order to "get" good emotions (fulfilment) from them -- he already has it. He also says he feels that we are all already connected, so rather than "making a connection" to someone new, he just assumes they are already connected to him and enjoys that connection from the first moment.

                - As a result of the above point, you are always "full". Therefore, you do not need to "get". Now, you can only give. An example could be Bill Gates. He was the richest man in the world, but now gives most of his personal wealth away. Why? Think.
                So Brent's advice for anxieties is that they arise because you are trying to "get" something, and your self-image (or even biology, depending on the nature of the fear) is at stake if you don't get it. By switching to giving, without the need for getting anything in return, you avoid this entire "value trading/gambling" thing. To others, if you're just giving, you have the vibe of a winner, because you have so much to give. And that's when others will want to be around you and give you stuff all the time, to try and absorb some of that vibe. Brent summarizes his mission as: "Giving and inspiring people". He says that what he is "giving" is a glimpse of life outside the Matrix -- outside need, outside fear. That's how he's chosen to frame it. Right now, I'm just thinking about all this stuff and deciding upon my own frame/mission.

                Finally, I will add that losing attachment to things can be achieved via getting. So if you get what you thought you wanted, often you will immediately notice that it didn't make you feel how you thought it would. People are framing their wants as somehow being the key to the "promised land". They're seeking fulfilment in getting that "thing". If you get that deflated (non-fulfilled) feeling after you get something, the unaware person will call it an "anti-climax" and make some plan to "get" something different in its place, or "get" more of that same thing. They just move on to more getting. This is the "rat-race"/need/"fulfilment is found in the external" frame.
                The aware person however will allow himself to realize that he had an attachment to that thing. When he got it, it didn't make him feel fulfilled -- thus the illusion was shattered. Now, he can drop the attachment to that thing. My life now plays out largely within this frame. I'm allowing life (the universe, whatever you want to call it) to send me the experiences I need to highlight my attachments, so I can let them go one by one.
                You can also lose attachment by trying to get something for so long, then finally, after enough suffering and "not getting it", you let it go. Then you find that life goes on regardless, and that experience allows you to see the falsity of that attachment.

                So these are my thoughts on the matter, and how I've attempted to unite many ideas under one central theme.