Bumble is the shit!

[Logic&Reason]

to my knowledge in sedfast, the only guy that meets the criteria you are describing is sarge(who everybody kind of ignores, and is actually getting laid from online, despite actually sucking on online).....Most guys in sedfast are cold approachers...

Currently, yes. You can't really be acting dumb to the history of MASF and Sedfast and the 10 year debate about the pros/cons of online game, can you?

The results are in: a generation of young men got fucked. 66% drop in sex for men under 30 in one decade.

Case closed.

[Skills360]

Currently, yes. You can't really be acting dumb to the history of MASF and Sedfast and the 10 year debate about the pros/cons of online game, can you?

The results are in: a generation of young men got fucked. 66% drop in sex for men under 30 in one decade.

Case closed.

oh this is what this is about.... ok...lol!


You guys are insane..... Still with that shit!


But yes i agree with that conclusion someone relying on online game to start seduction, is not only stupid but irresponsable totally agree.... And even a guy like sarge is going to fuck him up long term (which is why we scream at him to do cold approach)

[Logic&Reason]

oh this is what this is about.... ok...lol!


You guys are insane..... Still with that shit!

What do you mean "still?" Its a brand new survey that just came out, essentially posting the results of a decade long experiment that has been the contentious ource of debate on these forums the entire 10 years. https://brobible.com/culture/article...y-millennials/

The debate's now closed. Online fucked a generation of guys' sex lives up to the tune of 66%.

[Skills360]

What do you mean "still?" Its a brand new survey that just came out, essentially posting the results of a decade long experiment that has been the contentious ource of debate on these forums the entire 10 years. https://brobible.com/culture/article...y-millennials/

The debate's now closed. Online fucked a generation of guys' sex lives up to the tune of 66%.

wholly shit at those stats! extremely sad....


I am with you, but the problem i have is that your take is "men are not getting laid cause they do not know cold approach and are relying online" ..... I am saying "dude there are a lot of issues that are the factors and i am not sure that what you are saying is really the problem"

For example back in the days we did not have the access to porn that we have now.... My take is that a lot of guys are looking at shit like:

-i have to work out

- i have to dress nice

- i have to get rejected a million times.

- I have to do this and that


vs watching game of thrones and a fap to Ariana grande look alike doing bukakke....

so i am just critically thinking that you are reaching causation = correlation....


I personally do not see now a days guys interested in seduction and cold approach at all...

[POB]

Online is just another tool.

The phenomenon you're describing started way before the apps, with the soft left taking over everything, the feminilization of society, plus the addition of videogames, porn and the likes . But this is already well-documented and not suited for a debate on this platform.

You're confusing cause and effect.
Online apps came and were a hit because they supplied a heavy societal demand at the time:
women =getting free attention
betas = providing free attention
All that on the palm of your hand.

I remember wayyyy before the apps, when online game was starting, I got on some dates (no cell phones, just a local website with chat and a regular phone was all you needed).
You should see the discomfort of both parties, plus the amount of talking and logistics you had to do to get into their panties.

You're entitled to say it's a lesser form of game, anti-seduction, harmful to your development etc ,etc.
But to say it's one of the main causes of guys not getting laid? No, that's an overstatement.
It's just one of the symptoms of something way worse.

[Skills360]

Exactly my point... Thanks you! i was feeling like a contrarian for a second...

[Logic&Reason]

Online is just another tool.

The phenomenon you're describing started way before the apps, with the soft left taking over everything, the feminilization of society, plus the addition of videogames, porn and the likes . But this is already well-documented and not suited for a debate on this platform.

You're confusing cause and effect.
Online apps came and were a hit because they supplied a heavy societal demand at the time:
women =getting free attention
betas = providing free attention
All that on the palm of your hand.

I remember wayyyy before the apps, when online game was starting, I got on some dates (no cell phones, just a local website with chat and a regular phone was all you needed).
You should see the discomfort of both parties, plus the amount of talking and logistics you had to do to get into their panties.

You're entitled to say it's a lesser form of game, anti-seduction, harmful to your development etc ,etc.
But to say it's one of the main causes of guys not getting laid? No, that's an overstatement.
It's just one of the symptoms of something way worse.

I agree its part of a larger issue, the issue of ADD shortcut "what's easiest not what's best" mentality, propagated by the instant gratification available online that has a generation of people thinking everything should come instant and easy and be entertaining. And when real life doesn't immediately provide that, turn to the phone.

Online game is well beyond "another tool" though, for this very reason. Its not a PU tactic, its a way of life. Its a unique crutch because it so thoroughly plays into this larger issue, its the aspect of phone life that directly affects men's developmental ability to interact and have sex with women.

The young girls? They're fucking just as much, meeting up in real life with older dudes (perhaps this is why I've found younger girls easier as I get older). They'll be fine, they'll be well socialized with older more experienced people and have great girl game. The young guys though? Man. . . they're getting left in the dust. Its gonna get even uglier as they get older. . The 42 year old burned old man millennial will be next next level.

[Skills360]

I agree its part of a larger issue, the issue of ADD shortcut "what's easiest not what's best" mentality, propagated by the instant gratification available online that has a generation of people thinking everything should come instant and easy and be entertaining. And when real life doesn't immediately provide that, turn to the phone.

Online game is well beyond "another tool" though, for this very reason. Its not a PU tactic, its a way of life. Its a unique crutch because it so thoroughly plays into this larger issue, its the aspect of phone life that directly affects men's developmental ability to interact and have sex with women.

The young girls? They're fucking just as much, meeting up in real life with older dudes (perhaps this is why I've found younger girls easier as I get older). They'll be fine, they'll be well socialized with older more experienced people and have great girl game. The young guys though? Man. . . they're getting left in the dust. Its gonna get even uglier as they get older. . The 42 year old burned old man millennial will be next next level.

Dude again, there is not much disagreement, but your sentences are full of causation = correlation and biases.....


An ATTRACTIVE older guy will obviously in most cases in multiple generations have an advantage vs an younger guy... This may take a hit post 38 in some cases if you do not have a looks age in the 30s.....


The younger guys this generation that do not have social skills to get laid (again don't know if this has anything to do with online, in the anti pua sites, dudes that are good looking are getting laid left and right from apps)

Younger women in every generation has had great girl game, just now they are fucking more and is more obvious in your face... a girl 5 has the same game as an mpua dude, this has always been the case since dudes will bang anything...

[Logic&Reason]

Dude again, there is not much disagreement, but your sentences are full of causation = correlation and biases.....


An ATTRACTIVE older guy will obviously in most cases in multiple generations have an advantage vs an younger guy... This may take a hit post 38 in some cases if you do not have a looks age in the 30s.....


The younger guys this generation that do not have social skills to get laid (again don't know if this has anything to do with online, in the anti pua sites, dudes that are good looking are getting laid left and right from apps)

Younger women in every generation has had great girl game, just now they are fucking more and is more obvious in your face... a girl 5 has the same game as an mpua dude, this has always been the case since dudes will bang anything...

Cool not trying to disagree. Just trying to objectively observe what's going on.

I get causation/correlation is hard to precisely determine here, and that other variables are involved, and that its part of a larger systematic instant gratification/online culture issue, and that older guys have always had an advantage to some degree, and that younger girls have always had better game than younger guys . . . . but man these statistics are shocking. Things have still changed to the tune of 3x in 10 years.

Now. . . online dating may fall under a bigger "everything online culture" umbrella in most precisely understanding what's going on. . . but that doesn't change the fact that online culture, specifically online dating culture, is having an extreme negative impact on the sex lives of young men. Much more than I ever thought.

[Skills360]

lol this video was in my youtube feed, don't know who the dude is but he got it right, his 10 reasons:

1.- women hypergamy (which is made easy with dating apps, women just want access to the top tier guys)
2.- Pornography (which i made this point, you do not need to all the hustling and grinding you just click on pornhub)
3.- Me too movement (men terrified)
4.- depression due to not good job, not making a enough money who makes men feel no confident, lack of meaning, lack of purpose.
5.-femaie empowerment/entitlement of benefits in exchange for sex(women raising the price of sex)
6.- media entertainment ( video games, music, movies in other words more access to pleasure.
7.- sugar babies (rich man paying young girls, but the mindset is spilled over into mainstream). Why waste my beauty on one man when i can make a lot of money forecasting to a lot of men.
8.- mgtow (men sick of dating and women, checking out, this is growing a lot)
9.- Over saturation of sex (i can relate to this, exposure to sex so much you are just numb to it)
10.-women dating older men. (more money, social status etc... going for 30 plus men)... This is one is kind of meh...(i don't fully agree, women has always dated 5-10 years older)

[SargeMaximus]

I don’t get it... is this a list of why (supposedly) guys with game will clean up? Or is it a list of why (supposedly) things will be harder?

[Logic&Reason]

Watch the video, read the articles posted, or read the previous posts in this discussion. This is a lazy ass question dude.

[Logic&Reason]

Solid list. So its reason #1 in his estimation too.

Online game takes the game to how you look on paper, not how your vibes and presence physically affect her in person.

If you've only learned online game, you now have a massively shrunk pool of girls, as all the "great on paper" guys (IE rich and good looking, with the sugar daddy thing growing, its the hot rich ones who are winning online game right now, followed by older guys in general, the 30-something guys) take the bulk of the girls online.

Whereas anyone who can strike up a conversation with a girl in person and game her from there can do so any time they like, and completely and totally override how they compare to other guys on paper with presence and vibe, the in-person biological attractors that trigger horniness at an animal level. THAT is the way to get laid right now, under 30 dudes, more than ever really. Step up.

[POB]

Yes Logic, we are not in disagreement here.

But I see online different than you.
It's like a drug: take the right dosage and it may benefit you.
Take too much and it will make you sick.

What guys get wrong is that you must use online only on short blitzes, then establish a rotation, then drop it.
NOBODY DOES THAT!!! Guys cling to their phones like a baby on his mamas titties.

This is the same as trying to shed fat using only clenbuterol and no diet.
You maybe gonna get some short-term results, but It's gonna harm you for sure on the long term.

[Skills360]

Yes Logic, we are not in disagreement here.

But I see online different than you.
It's like a drug: take the right dosage and it may benefit you.
Take too much and it will make you sick.

What guys get wrong is that you must use online only on short blitzes, then establish a rotation, then drop it.
NOBODY DOES THAT!!! Guys cling to their phones like a baby on his mamas titties.

This is the same as trying to shed fat using only clenbuterol and no diet.
You maybe gonna get some short-term results, but It's gonna harm you for sure on the long term.

online is just another lead source, blitzes and rotation from online is not necessary, you are over complicating it, is just another lead source, the only reason these dudes get the panties in a bunch goes back to bd beefs that they can not let go(there is also subtle gaming for new forum).... Lets not forget that the guy that got me to online was not bd but logic himself(who along with you were coaching me privately, till i figured my own style)..

Online taught me how to date i already sound like a broken record....


There was always craig list, aol,pof and my space back in the day...

[Logic&Reason]

Yes Logic, we are not in disagreement here.

But I see online different than you.
It's like a drug: take the right dosage and it may benefit you.
Take too much and it will make you sick.

What guys get wrong is that you must use online only on short blitzes, then establish a rotation, then drop it.
NOBODY DOES THAT!!! Guys cling to their phones like a baby on his mamas titties.

This is the same as trying to shed fat using only clenbuterol and no diet.
You maybe gonna get some short-term results, but It's gonna harm you for sure on the long term.

Yeah. There's the conversation about how an individual can best exploit whatever's there in the moment, and then there's the conversation about the overall systematic impact of new gears in the system.

I've been on the latter in this conversation, with a bit of an edge putting blame on those in the PU world who disparaged actual game, since I was always on the "online is incomplete, you're creating mediocre guys who'll end up frustrated and limited. If you're putting time into this, invest it more wisely." So there's the "I'm right" part of this too lol, now that online is quantifiably full of limits and frustration and negative impacts on guy's lives.

The move for the individual is to figure out how to use what's there to win though. With you there. I'll of course fuck girls I meet online. I'm just not limited to that, always chasing whatever the newest best strategy is to meet girls online.

[No More Mr Nice Guy]

Most men are not getting laid in general for many reasons and societal changes, that article is saying.... Guys don't get laid cause they relied on online dating, causation =correlation.... But men are not getting laid in general, day game, night game online game:


1.- economical problems....

2.- living with parents.(i never had a problem with this, but it seem many people have)

3.-Technology (but not necessarily online gaming, video games, distractions etc...)

4.- many men checking out completely of mating market mgtow, rma, red/black pill etc....


p.s. One of my opinion is testosterone and sex drive declining ( i personally going on trt, next cause i lost my sexual desire despite getting a couple of moths spike going naturally, losing weight and gaining musle)


https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.204697f11eb1


Here is a good explanation that is more accurrate:

Thanks Skills....I read the original studies, and this is a much more accurate summary of what they actually say.

L&R, I mean no disrespect, but your conclusion that “ibecause - online dating” is a textbook example of correlation/causation and - especially - confirmation bias.

Of course, as an older dude who is having more success then I’ve had in my entire life...through - you guessed it - online...I have my own confirmation bias.

[Logic&Reason]

Thanks Skills....I read the original studies, and this is a much more accurate summary of what they actually say.

L&R, I mean no disrespect, but your conclusion that “ibecause - online dating” is a textbook example of correlation/causation and - especially - confirmation bias.

Of course, as an older dude who is having more success then I’ve had in my entire life...through - you guessed it - online...I have my own confirmation bias.

I've said causation/correlation is hard to determine here.

But its not confirmation bias, I personally do fine online. Its cold hard numbers: online game has been significantly detrimental to the socialization of a generation of guys, as the girls from that generation use online game to skip over interacting with guys their age onto older and more successful guys. Like me. Like you.

Its been GREAT for me, being an older successful guy. This is probably the best time ever to be an older guy gaming. This has nothing to do with ME, this has to do with the best use of PU time for young men.