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  • PLAYER GUIDE: Section 7. Online Game Specifics

    Previous Sections 1-5: http://www.pua-zone.com/forumdisplay...8-Player-Guide
    Section 6: http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.p...ntributors!%29

    1. Overview

    Online game, just like any other type of game, is a numbers game. Even if you are very good-looking and have strong real-life game, the response rate from the openers you send will be low. Moreover, the amount of women who will actually end up as real-life date from those responses will also be low. This is a normal and typical of online game and you need to expect this. This means you need to A) do nothing too wrong in your profile and B) send a massive amount of openers, as many as you are able without getting banned on the dating sites you're using. (And you should use more than one dating site...don't limit yourself.)

    The biggest thing most players do wrong with online game is they inadvertently clone their real-life pickup methods. Things like talking a lot, running routines, and establishing rapport do not work with online game. Online game is simply a mechanism to schedule dates, not run game. Once you're sitting across from her on a real-life date, that's where you run game. Not before. If you spend time with women in long back-and-forth conversations online, while trying to run game, routines, make her laugh, DHV yourself, or whatever, all you'll do is end up wasting a huge amount of time and get very frustrated.

    Instead, your job is to simply to optimize your profile as best you can, and schedule dates as fast as you possibly can with the women who respond to your openers. Unless there is a huge age difference between the two of you, you should pitch the date within the 2nd, 3rd, or perhaps the 4th message exchange with a new "prospect". If she suddenly vanishes from the conversation, you didn't do anything wrong...this means she was never serious about meeting up with you in the first place, and spending more time with her online would not have made a difference. Many women these days are online simply for validation and e-attention and are not actually there to meet men in real life. (Remember how we just said this is a numbers game?)

    Provided you do things correctly, the wonderful thing about online game is that you can schedule real-life dates very quickly, with very little real time invested as compared to night game or daygame. Online game, despite its downsides, is the most time management friendly of all the different game styles. Just remember that it's different than those styles.

    2. Website Comparison

    Paid/Free Sites

    Match.com
    One of the best sites, women that subscribe to this site are generally more serious and wanting to date than women on free sites. The amount of beautiful women whom are serious make this one of the best paid sites in my opinion

    Okcupid
    -Definitely considered a paid site now due to okcupid deliberately hiding women away if you are not an A-list member. This site is definitely a little bit more social media friendly and more for hoarding e-attention but since its free its pool is definitely large and great for mass approaching women if you pay the stupid fee.

    Plenty of Fish-
    Probably the worst site out of all the other dating sites, generally a lil bit more fat women (Depending on your area). But since its free you canít go wrong.

    Zoosk
    -Actually has a large amount of women looking to hook up and get courted by guys. You must pay to use so the women on these sites are generally a lot more serious into meeting men.

    It is recommended you test your profiles out on the free dating sites before you get into using paid dating sites (for obvious financial reasons). Having accounts on all free/paid dating sites is recommended

    Social discovery/meeting-esque apps:

    Social discovery websites are generally mainly for attention whoring but you can make them work if you put in heavy numbers on all apps at the same time. Iphone/android apps like Badoo, tagged, hot or not, meetme, skout, tinder are all considered to be in the social discovery category. These apps pop up all over the app stores and women flock right to them in order to get attention and date. Mainly the women that flock to these sites usually consist of 90% of women go for attention and 10% are actually serious about meeting up with guys. Put in heavy numbers as there are usually no consequences and restrictions upon mass-copy and paste messages and you should be very successful.

    Never, ever rely on social discovery apps as your sole means to obtain your prospects. Always use social discovery/meet apps as a supplement to your online dating efforts and in obtaining women in your rotation/schedule.

    3. Blitzing Strategies

    What do we call a blitz?

    Blitzing is what we call sending a massive number of openers (first messages) to women on online dating websites. More than with any other type of game, playing the numbers is capital when doing online game. The reason is that response rates are very low, due to several factors: old/inactive profiles, women being extremely picky and flaky online, etc. On POF you can send up to 40 openers (to 40 different women) within a 24h period. Take full advantage of this and aim to message 80-120 women a week while youíre in blitzing mode. Using tabs and copy-pasted messages, or even macros, this can be done relatively quickly.

    Successful blitzing strategies

    Experienced players have reported great results using vastly different strategies. Some aim at getting dates and go for the lay on the first date, others on the second date - others will only aim for casual hook-ups straight at their (or her) place. Some will use almost no messaging/texting, others will extensively use texting as well as voice calls, Facebook, Skype, etc.

    You should choose a strategy that best builds on your strengths. For example, if you are good at date game, aim to get dates. If you hate dates, aim for casual hook-ups (the latter strategy naturally requiring more investment over text/phone than a less threatening date pitch). Whatever strategy you choose, you should always:

    1) Have great pictures. This doesnít mean you have to be great-looking. It means you have to have pictures that put you in the best light possible. Great pictures allow you to get women interested in you.

    2) Screen out time wasters (attention whores and provider hunters), fast. Women love attention, and dating sites are full of attention-whores. They are also full of women looking for Mr. Prince Perfect who will tick all of their 100 boxes, one of which being a pussy-whipped ATM. You need to focus your time and energy on the women who want to have sex with you, not use you as an orbiter or a provider.

    3) Avoid the three major mistakes: being needy, entertaining (orbiting) or creepy (spiking ASD). This basically means: she likes your pictures, now donít fuck it up.

    Pictures


    Pictures are by far the most important thing online, along with playing the numbers. Online dating is a meat market: if she doesnít like your pictures, no amount of game will convert her. So you need to invest time and possibly money if you want to get results, particularly if you are not very, very good looking or photogenic. Get a photographer friend to help out or hire someone (students will give you good value for money). This will be the best time and money youíll ever invest with regards to getting laid. Take hundreds of pictures and put up the 2 to 5 very best ones. It is very important that you ask a woman (or better, women) to help you choose your best pictures, as women have very unpredictable tastes - for example finding one picture creepy when you think itís your best one.

    Some pointers for pictures that are attractive to women:
    - Donít look at the camera. Look like you donít even know that your shot is being taken. I.e. do not pose. Girls who pose are hot. Guys who pose are... posers.
    - Ideally aim for action pictures: driving a car, riding a bike, doing sports and particularly combat sports, playing in a band, jumping off a bridge, or just at work, looking busy and suited up. Manly man stuff.
    - Err on the side of mysterious (looking in the distance for example), serious and bad ass, rather than looking sweet and smiley.
    - Wear manly/trendy/cool/posh clothing. This is even more important online than in real life.

    Screen out time wasters


    Online game is not about seducing women. As mentioned before, your pictures do all the seducing for you. If your pictures donít make the cut, youíre out. Online game is about screening the women who are interested in having sex with you. Your game can only influence how rapidly sex will happen, not who it will happen with (although bad game may screw you over).

    The top recommendations from the seduction community are:

    1) Do write a relatively short profile. Convey your most attractive traits, but without sounding like youíre trying to impress.

    Donít use DHVs if you donít know how to drop them properly - a miscalibrated DHV quickly turns into you qualifying yourself which is a turn off (or worse, will attract provider hunters). A long profile can be interpreted as you taking this thing seriously, and being desperate to show how awesome you are. A long profile also makes it more likely you will mention something that will turn her off: attractive women receive dozens of messages per day so they have no other choice than to screen very hard. So avoid mentioning that you smoke and other potentially disqualifying little details.

    Tip: beginners should not even bother writing a profile. One or two sentences saying you are only here for meeting people, not chatting, is enough to start with. Experienced seducers have reported good results using such a strategy. Others are using long, or even very long profiles. This in theory should help build comfort, and should also help you screen better the type of women you are looking for.

    2) Do send short, simple openers, and donít kiss her ass.

    There is no such thing as a ďgreatĒ opener. There are only terrible openers, and openers that are not terrible. Do not waste time reading her profile and sending a long, personalised message:
    - If sheís interested in you, she will reply to any simple message, as long as itís not too creepy or needy.
    - If you send a message made to catch her attention and she doesnít like your pictures, she will likely not reply (vast majority of cases), and you will have wasted time that you could have spent messaging girls who are interested in you. Or she may reply out of attention whoring, in which case you will waste even more time on her.
    - If she likes you and you send her a long message, you will start the interaction off from a weak, likely supplicating frame - not good.

    Short and simple however doesnít mean boring and idiotic... She receives dozens of those already - every single day.

    Examples
    Bad: ďHi how are you? What are you up to this weekend?Ē
    Bad: ďDo u lyk 2 hav 2 cox in ur ass?Ē
    Bad: ďOMG you are so beautiful!Ē
    Not bad: ďHey Veronica. Felt like I should message you. Good intuition? Reply if you think it was!Ē

    3) Do test her interest and compliance and make her invest in you.

    An easy way to test her interest is to pitch a meet early in the interaction, i.e. within the first 2 to 5 messages. Women who are interested in you sexually will also tend to: send you long, upbeat messages, qualify you, and engage in sex talk if you lead them there in a non-creepy way. Bail at the first sign of non-compliance. Those include: not responding, shit-testing you out of nowhere and/or repeatedly, trying to make you qualify yourself, non-submissive attitude/tone, any hint of bitchiness such as sarcasm not meant to be funny, etc.

    4. Online Do's and Don'ts


    Avoid the big mistakes

    1) Donít be needy and supplicating.

    Donít follow up if she didnít answer the previous message. Donít try to convince her to go out with you, and especially not using logic. Make her needy for you. Donít ask - tell. Make her feel like she wants you. Be the cool guy who has other options and who sheís about to miss the opportunity to meet with.

    Example
    DONíT: ďCan I buy you dinner sometime? Just let me know when itís good for you.Ē
    DO: ďI donít have plans yet on Wednesday and Thursday, we can meet for a quick drink!Ē

    2) Donít entertain her.

    Women love attention. Donít feed it. Online orbiters are the lowest grade of orbiters. Women and men who get laid have nothing but contempt for them. Some amount of humour and comfort building can be useful, but will not turn a ďno girlĒ into a ďyes girlĒ. Furthermore, investing too much of your time with a girl who is already sold on you might turn her off: you might say something stupid, bore her, she may start to think you are pedestalizing her or have nothing more important to do, etc. Move the interaction forwards, always. This means: aim for logistics talk or sex talk escalation. Use humour and comfort sparingly, to help smooth the interaction - but they should always be viewed as the salt and pepper while logistics and sex talk are the true ingredients of the meal.

    3) Donít creep her out.

    Be subtle and mature when you talk about sex. Avoid getting into it in the first few messages (unless you are extremely subtle and mature about it). ďU ok babz lets hav sexi fun toniteĒ never got anyone laid. (See the following section: 7.4. Online escalation [[[Editors: please link]]]).

    Inner game for online, and other more advanced topics

    - The vast majority of women you open will not reply to you. Itís normal. Donít let it affect you. Likewise, a large proportion of the women with whom you will be chatting with will vanish in the air at some point or will never agree to meet you. Thatís just how online works. Some of these women have a good reason, some donít. Donít let it affect you. Keep sending openers and keep screening relentlessly for those women who are actually interested in having a sexual relationship with you.

    - Donít pay too much attention to what they write in their profile, or even what they tell you. What women say they want is seldom what they think they want, and what they think they want is often not what they actually want. Just do your thing: pitch a meet and escalate to sex rapidly. Sheís in or sheís out. Only way to know is... to pitch a meet and escalate to sex.

    - You will receive many messages telling you that your profile is too this or not enough that, or that your opener comes across too this or that. You will also sometimes get very rude messages. Itís normal. Donít let it affect you. Donít listen to any of it (in general, never take seduction advice from women). These are just women who didnít find you attractive from your pictures. Or maybe theyíre just mean bitches. Point is, women get a massive validation boost from rejecting men. Donít reply and move on to the next one.

    - There is no turning a no-girl into a yes-girl. Especially not using logic, arguments, or confrontation. There is no point getting into fights online with a stranger. Next her if she doesnít sound eager to meet you and move on to the next one.

    - You will get flaked on. A lot. Itís normal etc. Donít pursue flakes, let them reinitiate contact and if they sound apologetic/eager to meet you, schedule another meet. Donít supplicate or, equally bad, tell them you are pissed off at her for flaking. You can reduce flake rates by making her more invested in you pre-meet, but be careful not to fall into boring over-comfort, aka orbiting.

    - How to screen out provider/husband hunters and gold diggers: with all women you should avoid talking about money, stay vague and only briefly talk about work/career prospects, not spend any substantial amount of money on dates, avoid talking about long term relationships, and most of all push for sex as fast as possible. Women who are genuinely interested in you in a sexual way will have no problem with any of this. Provider hunters and gold diggers will actively try to derail that agenda. Stay on track and next them if they donít play the game.

    - Last but not least: be taking the lead from the opener to the bedroom, and be the one who is pursued, not the other way around. If you get lucky and manage to get laid with a woman who made you jump through her hoops all the way to bed, there is very little chance that this will lead to a relationship that is satisfactory for you (or for her) in the long term.


    Contributors to this Section: Blackdragon, Dude909, ObeyX
    Last edited by Tubarao; 03-25-2014, 06:15 PM.
    ~Tubarao
    fuzzyandoj.com
    www.crushingpavement.com

  • #2
    Section 6 isn't anywhere near complete, but I want to get the next section rolling so that we can finish up the guide in a reasonable amount of time. Please contribute to this section and to any and all other sections. You don't need to be a guru; just a couple years of field-tested experience is sufficient. As always, I prefer original and easily-accessible content. I'll begrudgingly accept links to good threads if nobody writes anything. But as I mentioned in the Nightgame thread: If I end up Frankensteining together content from other threads, I'll basically be KJing, and I'd prefer not to do that.

    Also, I may offer up a reward to top contributors, similar to BD's rewards for the monthly best field report. Keep your eyes peeled for something this week; it will likely happen. Right now I'm thinking 10-15 min video chat with yours truly (published to my youtube).
    ~Tubarao
    fuzzyandoj.com
    www.crushingpavement.com

    Comment


    • #3
      My online game advice would be the following.

      1. Send 10-20 messages a day, and only reply to messages once a day. You seem less needy and more busy, I only log on once a day or every few days.
      2. Have a good cool shirtless pic up if you have a nice body, not a mirror selfie.
      3. Avoid mirror selfies altogether.
      4. Have cool pictures. I have traveling pictures in other countries and me doing cool activities.
      5. Go for the number close very early in the conversation.
      6. Your messages shouldn't be tailored to the girl, that would take too much time.
      7. Keep your message short as well.
      8. Try to avoid physical compliments if possible.
      9. Keep your profile short and witty. Sarcastic and leave out a lot of details like a blank canvas. My profile has almost no real facts about myself.
      10. Go for the date quickly, don't have long drawn out conversations in either messages or texts. That's unattractive to do, just go for the date quickly and next her if she's flakey.
      11. A lot of girls make online dating profiles just for attention and never plan to meet any of the guys, so screen these girls out early.

      Comment


      • #4
        Do you have the text i sent Z last year?
        "I'm the kind of guy you don't want to bring home to mom. Cuz I'd fuck your mom."

        "I don't have a dirty mind, I have a sexy imagination"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Dude909 View Post
          Do you have the text i sent Z last year?
          Oh I'll look!
          ~Tubarao
          fuzzyandoj.com
          www.crushingpavement.com

          Comment


          • #6
            (I hope no one expects me to write this entire section, because I'm not, but I will definitely contribute. I'll start off with this.)

            Overview

            Online game, just like any other type of game, is a numbers game. Even if you are very good-looking and have strong real-life game, the response rate from the openers you send will be low. Moreover, the amount of women who will actually end up as real-life date from those responses will also be low. This is a normal and typical of online game and you need to expect this. This means you need to A) do nothing too wrong in your profile and B) send a massive amount of openers, as many as you are able without getting banned on the dating sites you're using. (And you should use more than one dating site...don't limit yourself.)

            The biggest thing most players do wrong with online game is they inadvertently clone their real-life pickup methods. Things like talking a lot, running routines, and establishing rapport do not work with online game. Online game is simply a mechanism to schedule dates, not run game. Once you're sitting across from her on a real-life date, that's where you run game. Not before. If you spend time with women in long back-and-forth conversations online, while trying to run game, routines, make her laugh, DHV yourself, or whatever, all you'll do is end up wasting a huge amount of time and get very frustrated.

            Instead, your job is to simply to optimize your profile as best you can, and schedule dates as fast as you possibly can with the women who respond to your openers. Unless there is a huge age difference between the two of you, you should pitch the date within the 2nd, 3rd, or perhaps the 4th message exchange with a new "prospect". If she suddenly vanishes from the conversation, you didn't do anything wrong...this means she was never serious about meeting up with you in the first place, and spending more time with her online would not have made a difference. Many women these days are online simply for validation and e-attention and are not actually there to meet men in real life. (Remember how we just said this is a numbers game?)

            Provided you do things correctly, the wonderful thing about online game is that you can schedule real-life dates very quickly, with very little real time invested as compared to night game or daygame. Online game, despite its downsides, is the most time management friendly of all the different game styles. Just remember that it's different than those styles.
            How to have 3 hour meet-to-lays and nonmonogamous relationships with any type of woman:
            The Blackdragon Blog

            Comment


            • #7
              Found it in my sent folder.

              Pre-requisites:
              - 1.3. What women really want
              - 2.1. Defining yourself
              [[[Note to editors: please link the above!]]]
              - Knowledge of the following concepts: orbiter, attention-whore, neediness, provider-hunter, logistics, supplication, qualify, sex-talk, shit-test, logistics


              What do we call a blitz?

              Blitzing is what we call sending a massive number of openers (first messages) to women on online dating websites. More than with any other type of game, playing the numbers is capital when doing online game. The reason is that response rates are very low, due to several factors: old/inactive profiles, women being extremely picky and flaky online, etc. On POF you can send up to 40 openers (to 40 different women) within a 24h period. Take full advantage of this and aim to message 80-120 women a week while youíre in blitzing mode. Using tabs and copy-pasted messages, or even macros, this can be done relatively quickly.

              Successful blitzing strategies

              Experienced players have reported great results using vastly different strategies. Some aim at getting dates and go for the lay on the first date, others on the second date - others will only aim for casual hook-ups straight at their (or her) place. Some will use almost no messaging/texting, others will extensively use texting as well as voice calls, Facebook, Skype, etc.

              You should choose a strategy that best builds on your strengths. For example, if you are good at date game, aim to get dates. If you hate dates, aim for casual hook-ups (the latter strategy naturally requiring more investment over text/phone than a less threatening date pitch). Whatever strategy you choose, you should always:

              1) Have great pictures. This doesnít mean you have to be great-looking. It means you have to have pictures that put you in the best light possible. Great pictures allow you to get women interested in you.

              2) Screen out time wasters (attention whores and provider hunters), fast. Women love attention, and dating sites are full of attention-whores. They are also full of women looking for Mr. Prince Perfect who will tick all of their 100 boxes, one of which being a pussy-whipped ATM. You need to focus your time and energy on the women who want to have sex with you, not use you as an orbiter or a provider.

              3) Avoid the three major mistakes: being needy, entertaining (orbiting) or creepy (spiking ASD). This basically means: she likes your pictures, now donít fuck it up.

              Pictures

              Pictures are by far the most important thing online, along with playing the numbers. Online dating is a meat market: if she doesnít like your pictures, no amount of game will convert her. So you need to invest time and possibly money if you want to get results, particularly if you are not very, very good looking or photogenic. Get a photographer friend to help out or hire someone (students will give you good value for money). This will be the best time and money youíll ever invest with regards to getting laid. Take hundreds of pictures and put up the 2 to 5 very best ones. It is very important that you ask a woman (or better, women) to help you choose your best pictures, as women have very unpredictable tastes - for example finding one picture creepy when you think itís your best one.

              Some pointers for pictures that are attractive to women:
              - Donít look at the camera. Look like you donít even know that your shot is being taken. I.e. do not pose. Girls who pose are hot. Guys who pose are... posers.
              - Ideally aim for action pictures: driving a car, riding a bike, doing sports and particularly combat sports, playing in a band, jumping off a bridge, or just at work, looking busy and suited up. Manly man stuff.
              - Err on the side of mysterious (looking in the distance for example), serious and bad ass, rather than looking sweet and smiley.
              - Wear manly/trendy/cool/posh clothing. This is even more important online than in real life.

              Screen out time wasters

              Online game is not about seducing women. As mentioned before, your pictures do all the seducing for you. If your pictures donít make the cut, youíre out. Online game is about screening the women who are interested in having sex with you. Your game can only influence how rapidly sex will happen, not who it will happen with (although bad game may screw you over).

              The top recommendations from the seduction community are:

              1) Do write a relatively short profile. Convey your most attractive traits, but without sounding like youíre trying to impress.

              Donít use DHVs if you donít know how to drop them properly - a miscalibrated DHV quickly turns into you qualifying yourself which is a turn off (or worse, will attract provider hunters). A long profile can be interpreted as you taking this thing seriously, and being desperate to show how awesome you are. A long profile also makes it more likely you will mention something that will turn her off: attractive women receive dozens of messages per day so they have no other choice than to screen very hard. So avoid mentioning that you smoke and other potentially disqualifying little details.

              Tip: beginners should not even bother writing a profile. One or two sentences saying you are only here for meeting people, not chatting, is enough to start with. Experienced seducers have reported good results using such a strategy. Others are using long, or even very long profiles. This in theory should help build comfort, and should also help you screen better the type of women you are looking for.

              2) Do send short, simple openers, and donít kiss her ass.

              There is no such thing as a ďgreatĒ opener. There are only terrible openers, and openers that are not terrible. Do not waste time reading her profile and sending a long, personalised message:
              - If sheís interested in you, she will reply to any simple message, as long as itís not too creepy or needy.
              - If you send a message made to catch her attention and she doesnít like your pictures, she will likely not reply (vast majority of cases), and you will have wasted time that you could have spent messaging girls who are interested in you. Or she may reply out of attention whoring, in which case you will waste even more time on her.
              - If she likes you and you send her a long message, you will start the interaction off from a weak, likely supplicating frame - not good.

              Short and simple however doesnít mean boring and idiotic... She receives dozens of those already - every single day.

              Examples
              Bad: ďHi how are you? What are you up to this weekend?Ē
              Bad: ďDo u lyk 2 hav 2 cox in ur ass?Ē
              Bad: ďOMG you are so beautiful!Ē
              Not bad: ďHey Veronica. Felt like I should message you. Good intuition? Reply if you think it was!Ē

              3) Do test her interest and compliance and make her invest in you.

              An easy way to test her interest is to pitch a meet early in the interaction, i.e. within the first 2 to 5 messages. Women who are interested in you sexually will also tend to: send you long, upbeat messages, qualify you, and engage in sex talk if you lead them there in a non-creepy way. Bail at the first sign of non-compliance. Those include: not responding, shit-testing you out of nowhere and/or repeatedly, trying to make you qualify yourself, non-submissive attitude/tone, any hint of bitchiness such as sarcasm not meant to be funny, etc.

              Avoid the big mistakes

              1) Donít be needy and supplicating.

              Donít follow up if she didnít answer the previous message. Donít try to convince her to go out with you, and especially not using logic. Make her needy for you. Donít ask - tell. Make her feel like she wants you. Be the cool guy who has other options and who sheís about to miss the opportunity to meet with.

              Example
              DONíT: ďCan I buy you dinner sometime? Just let me know when itís good for you.Ē
              DO: ďI donít have plans yet on wednesday and thursday, we can meet for a quick drink!Ē

              2) Donít entertain her.

              Women love attention. Donít feed it. Online orbiters are the lowest grade of orbiters. Women and men who get laid have nothing but contempt for them. Some amount of humour and comfort building can be useful, but will not turn a ďno girlĒ into a ďyes girlĒ. Furthermore, investing too much of your time with a girl who is already sold on you might turn her off: you might say something stupid, bore her, she may start to think you are pedestalizing her or have nothing more important to do, etc. Move the interaction forwards, always. This means: aim for logistics talk or sex talk escalation. Use humour and comfort sparingly, to help smooth the interaction - but they should always be viewed as the salt and pepper while logistics and sex talk are the true ingredients of the meal.

              3) Donít creep her out.

              Be subtle and mature when you talk about sex. Avoid getting into it in the first few messages (unless you are extremely subtle and mature about it). ďU ok babz lets hav sexi fun toniteĒ never got anyone laid. (See the following section: 7.4. Online escalation [[[Editors: please link]]]).

              Inner game for online, and other more advanced topics

              - The vast majority of women you open will not reply to you. Itís normal. Donít let it affect you. Likewise, a large proportion of the women with whom you will be chatting with will vanish in the air at some point or will never agree to meet you. Thatís just how online works. Some of these women have a good reason, some donít. Donít let it affect you. Keep sending openers and keep screening relentlessly for those women who are actually interested in having a sexual relationship with you.

              - Donít pay too much attention to what they write in their profile, or even what they tell you. What women say they want is seldom what they think they want, and what they think they want is often not what they actually want. Just do your thing: pitch a meet and escalate to sex rapidly. Sheís in or sheís out. Only way to know is... to pitch a meet and escalate to sex.

              - You will receive many messages telling you that your profile is too this or not enough that, or that your opener comes across too this or that. You will also sometimes get very rude messages. Itís normal. Donít let it affect you. Donít listen to any of it (in general, never take seduction advice from women). These are just women who didnít find you attractive from your pictures. Or maybe theyíre just mean bitches. Point is, women get a massive validation boost from rejecting men. Donít reply and move on to the next one.

              - There is no turning a no-girl into a yes-girl. Especially not using logic, arguments, or confrontation. There is no point getting into fights online with a stranger. Next her if she doesnít sound eager to meet you and move on to the next one.

              - You will get flaked on. A lot. Itís normal etc. Donít pursue flakes, let them reinitiate contact and if they sound apologetic/eager to meet you, schedule another meet. Donít supplicate or, equally bad, tell them you are pissed off at her for flaking. You can reduce flake rates by making her more invested in you pre-meet, but be careful not to fall into boring over-comfort, aka orbiting.

              - How to screen out provider/husband hunters and gold diggers: with all women you should avoid talking about money, stay vague and only briefly talk about work/career prospects, not spend any substantial amount of money on dates, avoid talking about long term relationships, and most of all push for sex as fast as possible. Women who are genuinely interested in you in a sexual way will have no problem with any of this. Provider hunters and gold diggers will actively try to derail that agenda. Stay on track and next them if they donít play the game.

              - Last but not least: be taking the lead from the opener to the bedroom, and be the one who is pursued, not the other way around. If you get lucky and manage to get laid with a woman who made you jump through her hoops all the way to bed, there is very little chance that this will lead to a relationship that is satisfactory for you (or for her) in the long term.
              "I'm the kind of guy you don't want to bring home to mom. Cuz I'd fuck your mom."

              "I don't have a dirty mind, I have a sexy imagination"

              Comment


              • #8
                2.) Website Comparisons

                (Incomplete)
                Paid/Free Sites
                Match.com
                One of the best sites, women that subscribe to this site are generally more serious and wanting to date than women on free sites. The amount of beautiful women whom are serious make this one of the best paid sites in my opinion

                Okcupid
                -Definitely considered a paid site now due to okcupid deliberately hiding women away if you are not an A-list member. This site is definitely a little bit more social media friendly and more for hoarding e-attention but since its free its pool is definitely large and great for mass approaching women if you pay the stupid fee.

                Plenty of Fish-
                Probably the worst site out of all the other dating sites, generally a lil bit more fat women (Depending on your area). But since its free you canít go wrong.

                Zoosk
                -Actually has a large amount of women looking to hook up and get courted by guys. You must pay to use so the women on these sites are generally a lot more serious into meeting women.

                It is recommended you test your profiles out on the free dating sites before you get into using paid dating sites (for obvious financial reasons). Having accounts on all free/paid dating sites is recommended

                Social discovery/meeting-esque apps:

                Social discovery websites are generally mainly for attention whoring but you can make them work if you put in heavy numbers on all apps at the same time. Iphone/android apps like Badoo, tagged, hot or not, meetme, skout, tinder are all considered to be in the social discovery category. These apps pop up all over the app stores and women flock right to them in order to get attention and date. Mainly the women that flock to these sites usually consist of 90% of women go for attention and 10% are actually serious about meeting up with guys. Put in heavy numbers as there are usually no consequences and restrictions upon mass-copy and paste messages and you should be very successful.

                Never, ever rely on social discovery apps as your sole means to obtain your prospects. Always use social discovery/meet apps as a supplement to your online dating efforts and in obtaining women in your rotation/schedule.


                Feel free to add any as I havenít utilized that many dating websites.
                Dating from a black male's perspective
                http://obeyx.wordpress.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks guys! I added in the content and reorganized the sections a little bit. Feel free to add anything else. Also, in terms of section headers (colors, bolding, etc.), I'll figure that all out when I'm putting together the final guide.
                  ~Tubarao
                  fuzzyandoj.com
                  www.crushingpavement.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Not sure the website comparison section is useful tbh. Everyone has different experiences with different websites, results are very location and time sensitive... And in a couple years all those mentioned might and will probably be dead anyway.
                    "I'm the kind of guy you don't want to bring home to mom. Cuz I'd fuck your mom."

                    "I don't have a dirty mind, I have a sexy imagination"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dude909 View Post
                      Not sure the website comparison section is useful tbh. Everyone has different experiences with different websites, results are very location and time sensitive... And in a couple years all those mentioned might and will probably be dead anyway.
                      What would you suggest? I welcome any content you can recommend.
                      ~Tubarao
                      fuzzyandoj.com
                      www.crushingpavement.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        All this is taken directly from my ebook I wrote and edited through the years, its what works for me and others that have used my method:

                        Quote - “A woman without an imagination is a very boring one” – Crissco


                        4 Tips:
                        1. Change your profile picture up every so often, experiment on which one gets the most responses and stick with it.

                        2. Try to remember what woman you have messaged in the past and try not to send the same opener to her a month later. You will get called out. Give it a two month breathing period.

                        3. If you plan to travel change your location to the area you are going to before you leave. You can set up the dates for when you are there.

                        4. If you choose to go on a date find a local place with a nice setting, friendly people and cheap drinks. Make it your number one go to spot.




                        The Mass Text

                        Once you acquired a decent amount of numbers over a period of time this is where mass texting comes in. You want to get laid tonight, not a problem. Text multiple girls(Which you should always be doing anyway) to come and hang out that night. One of them has to agree to hang out, and when she does just follow the steps to your same night lay.

                        The call.

                        There are certain times in your seduction journey that texting just doesn’t work, you either didn’t build enough comfort yet and its just too soon in general.

                        This is where calling comes in. Its always more pleasant to hear who you are talking to, and to show to them you’re a normal person and have a voice through all those texts and e-mails.

                        When it comes to phone calls keep them short, under 10 minutes. Plan the date talk for a little longer then get off the phone and plan your next step of the journey.

                        Some advice I can give you is before you pick up the phone to call, know what your going to say as your first line, I suggest making it a funny line or witty statement about something you two talked about in the past, then play off of that at some point during the conversation


                        A couple of reasons for calling.

                        1. Not enough rapport was built through texting
                        2. It builds up rapport at a rapid pace.

                        3. To know that the person you are talking to is really them (Hey you never know)

                        Key points to remember:

                        1. Keep the calls short, under 10 minutes

                        2. Plan ahead before calling

                        3. Be, calm, cool and collective through out the phone call

                        4. Remember, smile!! Yes people can sense that even over the phone


                        Tactics to get a girl from the date to the bed:

                        1. Leave a prop in your house, ex...The picture of your baby cousin. Mention that during the date and on the ride home tell her you have the picture that you want to show her, then take her and lead her into the house from the car, show her the picture, then (Go to section 5)


                        2. Have her pick you up, tell her your cars in the shop so she's forced to drop you off and your house and when you’re at the house use tactic one.

                        3. Drink a lot of liquids on the date so she has to use the bathroom, while using tactic 2 have her drop you off and by the time you get to your place she's going to ask to use your bathroom, that’s where you suggest since you are here already, tell her to stay hang out for a bit.


                        4. If you have a backyard this is perfect, on the date tell her. “After this, lets go hang out in my backyard, I have an awesome set up!!” The backyard is perfect because its non threatening, plus when you two start to make out in the backyard, it has the aura of “its possible to get caught” Women love doing those type of things.


                        Flakes

                        **DON’T respond right away once she flakes, wait about an hour or so before the time you were supposed to hang out**

                        Should a women flake on you anymore then 2 times, cut her off. That is a sign of disrespect. Give her one shot, because the truth is something really could of happened, a flat tire, got sick, whatever it may be give her the benefit of the doubt once, and reschedule.

                        If you feel she's making up an excuse say this:

                        Say this: "Well it seems you want to do everything expect hang with me, or make a time to meet up. I'm a busy guy. I don't have time for this. So good luck you there Hope you find someone"

                        This will weed you the girls who are truly interested in you from the ones who are not. Why game and go for a girl when she's not interested in you in the first place, your just wasting your time.


                        Types of dating sites

                        There are tons and tons of dating sites out there, but which one do you choose? A run down of the 3best dating site in my opinion are:

                        Plenty of fish: The girls are easy, fast, and most likely on the first night will put out, make sure to wrap it up, go for the hot ones and have fun!

                        Okcupid: One of my favorites, another free site, but the girls are hotter. Lays are just as easy and a big selection of girls to choose from!

                        Match.com: A paid dating site, women on match take dating a lot more seriously then Plenty of Fish and Ok cupid. Same Night Lays are still possible, since the site is very popular and shown on TV the girls are a little bit hotter on match.com then the other two sites.

                        Facebook: While not a dating site, it can be used as a tool to get laid. I have used it numerous times with success and even ended up getting a girlfriend off of it. With Facebook, I run the exact routine I do with online dating sites its no different. Keep your profile vague, and have a good main picture.


                        Best Dating apps to use:

                        Tinder/Hinge:

                        The point of Tinder and Hinge is go through girls one by one and like or dislike them according to the way they look. She does the same for guys, if you like her, she likes you then you pair a match and can start messaging each other.
                        The trick to those two apps is to like every girl, then at the end of the day go through your matches and pick out the girls you like the best.


                        This routine works great most of the time. Like anything else its not 100% proven, but you have nothing to lose:
                        The 7+ Opener

                        It’s true that most of the woman on these dating sites get a lot of messages, especially girls who are 7+ on the look scale. I recently have been using this opener with great success to open the hottest girls. It goes like this:

                        Open – You and I would never be able to hang out.

                        (They respond)

                        Follow up – Because you seem like a trouble maker.

                        (They respond)

                        Follow up 2 – Yup!! Your def mischievous!! I kind of like that…Im (Name)

                        (They respond)

                        Follow the normal routine asking what she does for fun...Any unique hobbies from here on out.



                        I have other areas of my ebook I didn't add. 1. A lot was covered, and 2 Im selling it on Amazon, and 3. I don't want girls searching my routines and coming here

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tubarao View Post
                          What would you suggest? I welcome any content you can recommend.
                          I would simply advise one to create a profile on 3-4 sites/apps and constantly blitz them.
                          "I'm the kind of guy you don't want to bring home to mom. Cuz I'd fuck your mom."

                          "I don't have a dirty mind, I have a sexy imagination"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My online success 'guide with 35+ year old woman

                            I posted this originally in the Over 33 Technique thread, and it was suggested that I post it here as well, so posting here, and tried to clean up a bit:

                            Pre-reading:
                            So you know how I developed this, over time, which really was not planned at all, just refining my interactions, and you will know where I came from. Had I started where most of you are now, or had a lot more experience with woman there are areas in it for vast improvement, then and now.

                            This comes from my learning's over time, over the past 5 years, as I have mostly been using online sites to find dates after getting a divorce. However, starting back then, I was 'looking for a girlfriend' and 'Monogamy' actually had the 'Disney dream' and over those years, had invested 3+ years in 'monogamous' relationships with women I dated from online. The first I slept with on the second date, and turned into a 2 year relationship. Not something I would pursue now, but want you to get my 'frame' when I was working on this.

                            My 'target' was always over 35, then, that's what I thought was the 'best' fit for me, so all of my dating from online, until this year, had been with 35 and older woman.

                            This may not be a 'technique' per se, but more of a 'pattern' that I have developed from online dating on and off over the past few years, but it has led to sex with around ~25 woman from online dates. In just 2015 alone, as I have gone back to it, I have been on ~15 dates, again, all over 35 YO, that have led to sex in 4 of the first dates, and 2 on second dates, which puts me around 40% success from that small sample size this year alone.

                            Notes about my online profile:
                            As other guides have noted, online response rate to openers and email is incredibly low, somewhere around 1-3%.
                            I used to attribute that to my profile, which I don't think is that great, but there are occasions when woman actually reach out to say hi to me first in this age range.
                            My photos are of me traveling, or doing something, like skydiving, or on my motorcycle, etc.

                            My vibe with them has always been boyfriend/gentleman with an edge, that comes naturally to me, as I have a corporate, decent paying job, and I dress a little stylish, but also have necklaces, tattooed, beard, ride a motorcycle, have adventurous activities, ski race, skydive, martial artist, travel, but open doors for them, somewhat laid back approach that they have a hard time 'reading' at times, so you may need to adjust based on your style, but feel they are generic enough.

                            With all those caveat's and notes, here has been my pattern and some reflection on it, I have not held 100 percent to all of them, as every situation has been a bit different, and I tend to go more with the flow of how things are feeling as well.


                            • First email contact:
                              • I try to keep email back and forth to 3-5 emails max, with some notes on similar interests, or something interesting in their profile, but I keep mine short, no more than 1 or 2 paragraphs of a couple of sentences each. And NO beta crap in these, NO going on about how beautiful they are, NO submissive shit, etc. If I give a compliment, it will be on something they have done, like travel, or a photo of something, like them riding a camel, along the line of "That must have been an amazing experience, and I would love to hear more about it!"
                              • After this, I will ask for a number, and a time we can chat on the phone. And by ask, I mean along the line of: "You sound like an interesting woman, with some great stories, shoot me your number and a time we can chat, as I would love to learn more about you!"
                                • Notes:
                                  • ​I use "Love", "Experience" "amazing" and words such as that, not directed 'at' them, but things about what they have done, etc, as woman connect with them, and makes them feel you are interested in them and who they are, where they have come from
                                  • No sex references are brought in here

                            • Phone chat:
                              • Once I get a number, and a time to chat, I will call them at that time, and be prompt and on time, and really is a continuation of the email thread. I will try to keep this to max 1/2 hour, and most times far less than this, and use the 80/20 listen/talk rule. It's my opportunity to build some rapport, get them feeling someone is listening to them, and actually hears them, start to bring up things they are interested in, maybe shared interests, and a little about myself.
                              • Keep a positive frame during the call, with your voice in control, and nervousness should be minimal.
                              • Things usually go pretty well here, and at the end of the call, I will pitch a coffee date, or maybe a quick drink date, and throw in the 'Nothing to committed, that way if either of us gets scared away, we can split, and if we do connect, we can continue on!"
                                • Notes:
                                  • I use some slightly deprecating humor here at times, and I mean slightly, they often ask, "what do you do for a living" and for me, that's easy, I tell them "I am a Director of IT, which really is just a fancy way of saying I fix computers for a living, and really, since I am a director now, I just tell people to fix computers, while I go to meetings."
                                  • Again, no sex references here, Unless they initiate it. I do at times include some prior relationship talk, often people are not originally from the area, and I'll ask how they wound up here, and then jokingly say: "wait, let me guess, it was a guy! It's always a guy. "

                            • Coffee/Drink date:
                              • This I try to setup the first meet, and shoot for 1 hour max, unless things are going very well, then I can extend it if she is open to it. All of the rules apply to dating here, dress nice/stylish, show up on time, or before. I often show up before, and then txt them, where I am, and some note like "I am at the bar when you get here, let's see if you can find me! "
                              • Setup, I always shoot for the bar, if for wine/drinks, or a table that has seats that I can sit at beside her at an angle, When she gets there, almost all the time, they look to shake hands, and I wave that off, and give her a hug, while explaining "I am a hugger" and thank her for meeting me out, etc. The bar works well, it almost forces us close after, and more often than not touching legs together while we talk, pay attention to her state, if she is uncomfortable with it, you'll pick up on it, and can move back a bit.
                              • 80/20 talking rule applies here, and this is where I get deeper into who she is, what she is passionate about, and why, I have some of my own passions, such as martial arts, that I can relate with them on this level, and how it makes you feel, etc.
                                • Notes:
                                  • I try to setup this date, near myself or her location, if it leads to a longer first date that may lead to sex, you will already be somewhat setup to pursue this.
                                  • If it doesn't, but feel that things are going well, at the end of the date, I'll pitch a second date, and ask for her availability, etc. And then tell her I'll be in touch with some plans.
                                  • This is also where the gentleman side comes in as well, this comes naturally to me, and I have been surprised how many women comment positively on it after time, and how many men do not do these things:
                                    • I will always walk her to her car, or the bus, or however she got there, and continue chatting along the way, unless she completely shuts that down. Often they will give you the "No, you don't have to" but I do it anyways.
                                    • I always walk on the outside of a woman on the sidewalk, I do this for my daughter, or any woman I am with, I actually feel uncomfortable if I don't, there are times, I will actually move around the woman, lightly pressure her to the other side by my hand on their shoulder.

                            • The 2nd date:
                              • This should be always near where she lives, or my place, I pitch near where she lives, find someplace intimate for drinks, or an activity, or sometimes dinner. Always plan this yourself, do not ask her what she would like to do!
                              • I always try to pick her up at her place, here again, no beta shit, "Can I pick you up at your place?" I use something along the line of "Ok, Friday night at 8, I have plans for us, and would love to pick you up at your place, and then head over. " Since you have already built some rapport, they usually respond favorably to this, and I take that as a sign of interest. If they don't, they may be slightly interested, but insure still.
                              • Always be on time, or slightly early. I will then meet them at their door, and walk them to my car, here again, open the car door for her, and then take her to your date, hold the door to the place, and she goes first through. After the date, always walk her back to the car, and again open the door for her. This right here is very simple, and very effective as they are really not used to this, I don't do this from a 'beta' place though, looking for a thank you, or expect some thing from it. I do it, because I want to do it, and that comes across to them, even unspoken.

                            • After the date:
                              • Here, they may get a little nervous, as I am bringing them back to their place, they may get a little quieter, as the wonder what is about to happen. I always tell them, I will walk them back to the door, and you will almost always get "You don't have to" to which I reply, something like "I know I don't have to" while I am getting out of the car, to go open their door and escort them back to the door.
                              • From here, you can pickup the vibe, I may go for a kiss, a lot of the time, they ask if I would like to come in for a minute, or I'll ask to use the bathroom, as I am older now, more often than not, I actually need to. LOL. Once at this point, all of the familiar ASD rules fall into place.
                                • Notes:
                                  • I have had my best success with ASD, as looking at it as not shit tests, or resistance, but a woman trying to overcome her ASD, by essentially asking me to lead her there. Often I do this by agreeing with whatever they say, but then doing it anyway.
                                    • For example, had one woman in my bed, with nothing on but her panties, and as I started to remove them, she grabbed them and said, you can't take those off, as we are not having sex tonight. My reply was I agree, we can't take those off, as we will wind up having sex, while I was taking them off, and her next comment was. "Do you have condoms?"


                            Post Reading notes from my successes:
                            • From BD's original request, also admittedly, in my past, I have spent too much money on dates. I don't do that anymore, and it has not affected my results so far. My most recent lay from online, 45 years old, I paid for wine the first date, then we had dinner the second date, and she picked up dinner, and would not even let me leave the tip! We then went back to her place, and had sex, total was ~4 hours of face time, and this woman told me she had not had sex in 1.5 years.
                            • This age, they *are* looking for boyfriends, and MLTR is much harder, they may do it for a while, but not be completely comfortable with it.
                              • Example: Last week, I got female next'ed by a 50 year old after a couple of months of dating in an open relationship style.

                            • My quickest, online over 33 to sex, was 1 hour coffee date, I bought the coffee, straight to my house to 'watch a movie' and about 1/2 hour of facetime there before we hit the bed. So total was 1.5 hours facetime to sex, with price of 1 cup of coffee.
                            • I think online over 33 to sex quickly 'can' happen at low cost, and my first date lays above have been max 4-5 hours from meet to sex (Although two of them happened in a car, but I don't discriminate about 'where' we had sex from the actually having sex on the first date part.. )
                            • Interaction: Eye contact, Eye contact! I love to hold eye contact with a woman as she speaks, there are times women have said to me, Wow, you have an intense eye contact, it feels like you are looking right into me. It's not creepy eye contact, it just makes them feel I 'see' them.
                            Last edited by ricerocket; 05-07-2015, 06:44 PM. Reason: Posted to quickly, before I was completed.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks rice, I will add your content when I get back into the Player Guide.
                              ~Tubarao
                              fuzzyandoj.com
                              www.crushingpavement.com

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