criteria

[Present]

Curious about something:

Say a lady is DTF and maybe an HB8 or so. If she invites you, without any fun flirtation and heat-building, does that work for you? Or do you want to be seduced with escalation and playfulness? Notice I am not talking about an HB10 where you'd basically do her in a pigsty, nor about a 3-4-5 where you might not want to do her at all. I'm talking about someone sane and interesting who theoretically has potential to be an FB or MLTR. Does her behavior influence your feeling of attraction or not?

[Remedy]

Do I like the seduction dance? Yes. The same way teasing her mercilessly before having my way with her makes me enjoy sex more.

Would I think less of a woman if she directly propositioned me? Never. I'd be impressed.

[SgtGrumbles]

Everyone wants someone they perceive as higher value than themselves. Men approach women all the time and hit on them. They're basically saying "you have something I want. Would you consider giving it to me?" Check out Brent Smith. He talks about every interaction having a pursuer and a pursued. Of course, you can't have two people playing hard to get; there is no interaction there.

SO.... If you approach a man so directly, you are setting the frame early on that he has what you want and you're giving him the power. He will be slightly less attracted but this rarely happens to men so he will not handle it in the same way a woman might, having been hit on 10 times earlier that day.

That being said, it's definitely not a deal breaker for me. Just not as sexy and feminine as it could be.

Guys with a low sense of self-worth or inexperience will probably freak out and run away like a 14 year old (I've done this the first time a girl was so forward). If that's the man you want, it's probably better to build some comfort first.

This may also be a factor: Blackdragon's (I think?) categorization of Pleasure of Sex men vs. Thrill of the Hunt men. Pretty self explanatory. POS men want no chase. The more direct, the better. TOTH may balk at this and instead pursue your standoffish friend who is not paying him any attention.

[Ratata]

Yes, her behaviour matters. Further more, I don't even care if she's a HB10. If she's not sufficiently into me, or shrugs any attempt at flirtation or escalation away, I will simply move on, though without burning bridges.

[Assman]

I would take a random chick who straight up propositions you as a BIG RED FLAG just due to gender dynamics - basically I would be trying to gauge her motives as it is a very very rare occurrence.

The closest I have come to this is her friend doing it on her behalf so that came across as more genuine.

I have also heard of cases where the woman was very forward and later took advantage of the guy, other than for sex...

I would prefer it if she was more coquettish and inviting with her interest

I know from a woman's point of view that some view it as the guy not being able to 'handle' their sexuality and are 'insecure' or 'run for the hills' when she shows very direct interest but this is not always the case for reasons I mention above - Gut feeling tells us to be on guard.

[NWP]

Curious about something:

Say a lady is DTF and maybe an HB8 or so. If she invites you, without any fun flirtation and heat-building, does that work for you?

That's the best woman in the world!

Or do you want to be seduced with escalation and playfulness?

I'm not a woman.

Notice I am not talking about an HB10 where you'd basically do her in a pigsty,

There are only 2 kinds of women: Those whom I would immediately do in a pigsty and those whom I would never do at all. If a woman isn't worthy of immediately getting her brains fucked out in a pigsty, then she isn't worthy of anything. If she's fuckable, what's the point in waiting?

nor about a 3-4-5 where you might not want to do her at all. I'm talking about someone sane and interesting who theoretically has potential to be an FB or MLTR. Does her behavior influence your feeling of attraction or not?

Yes, her behavior absolutely does influence my feelings of attraction. I'd be more attracted to her if she agreed to fuck me in a pigsty, or if she told me her fetish was doing it in a cardboard box while role playing her favorite porn "Homeless Sex: No Teeth, Spare Cum?."

I'd feel a lot safer with her and would be absolutely sure that she isn't some golddigging bitch, or prude who thinks her pussy is made of gold.

With that being said though, I'm a POS (pleasure of sex) guy. The TOTH (thrill of the hunt) guys are my opposites and may prefer the "pure" prissy ones who pose a challenge. Also, many guys are slut shamers who worship women who sadistically frustrate them and spit on women who make them happy in a bizarre sado-masochistic ritual of cultural programming colliding with natural instincts and not knowing where to go from there.

You will find that we are not a good sample for a survey, because we represent men who are a very tiny minority.

[Faust]

we represent men who are a very tiny minority.

+1000000

For any woman reading this forum, this is probably the #1 thing to keep in mind.

If you are looking for a place to figure out how 'men' (in general) think, feel, and behave with regard to women, we are a very irregular bunch.

[Present]

+1000000
If you are looking for a place to figure out how 'men' (in general) think, feel, and behave with regard to women, we are a very irregular bunch.

Yes, but men like some of you guys are the ones I am more interested in than the ones who are looking for Marriage 1.0.

NWP, thank you for that hilarious post.

The concept of POS vs. TOTH guys is very interesting and useful to me. I think the most useful thing that you've offered me is an opportunity to look at it without a value judgment. My knee-jerk past thought would have been, "TOTH, how superficial immature and self-defeating etc etc definitely not the right guy for me." After hearing it mentioned dispassionately, seeing it as a natural variant in human behavior rather than a character flaw, I can say, "TOTH guys, one of them might or might not be a good choice for me, and if one is a good choice, then I'm going to choose to provide him with his chase-and-persuade thrills in order to give us both more pleasure."

Where you say you don't want to be seduced with escalation and playfulness b/c you're not a woman: Ummmm, maybe some TOTH guys might enjoy the role reversal of being seduced and chased? Or maybe lipstick lesbians would enjoy it? Just throwing out ideas here, because I can envision so many different types of seductions being fun and successful.

[Skills360]

Curious about something:

Say a lady is DTF and maybe an HB8 or so. If she invites you, without any fun flirtation and heat-building, does that work for you? Or do you want to be seduced with escalation and playfulness? Notice I am not talking about an HB10 where you'd basically do her in a pigsty, nor about a 3-4-5 where you might not want to do her at all. I'm talking about someone sane and interesting who theoretically has potential to be an FB or MLTR. Does her behavior influence your feeling of attraction or not?

I think just like the dudes here screen for dtf, you should screen for secret society/lover dudes... That will help you tremendously, and you will not have to bother with strategy.

http://www.theskillsmethod.com/the-2...-to-seduction/

http://www.theskillsmethod.com/expos...om-an-insider/

[Silvertree]

Why does it have to be either sitting there peeking from behind your fan, waiting for a gentleman to ask you to dance, or saying, "Come and get it sailor."? Does a skier have a few rigid stances, or does he adjust to the terrain and go with the flow as he glides downhill.

Lots of guys are afraid to act on their desires, I'd guess more than half. They fear rejection, or public ridicule, or just bursting the bubble of their fantasy, or suspect that you're willing but are clueless about these things. Give the guy an opportunity and see what happens. Talk to him, let it grow naturally, adjust to the situation, get him to do something where you end up isolated, preferably at his or your place, then if he doesn't get the hint, you nudge things along. Just don't give it any more of a nudge than it really takes to get the ball rolling. Plausible deniability. Like how guys come up with lame excuses to get you to go back to their place. You and he both know that going back to see his collection of Jimmy Buffet ticket stubs and autographed parrot hand puppet really means going someplace private to get laid, but it is a faux pas to verbalize the seduction, hence the lame excuse.

Guys are clueless about this stuff. Compared to women's standards, most guys perception of sexual signaling is like when you walk out of the sunlight into a dark restaurant and still have your sunglasses on. Rewriting something JetSetJim said in an old thread. A woman sees a guy who makes her think, Hmmmm, who does not know her, so she goes and sits at his table sat the Starbucks. All the women in the room think, she's throwing herself at him, the shameless hussy. The guy thinks, why is this strange woman sitting here, I wonder if I should say something to her? You may have to turn up the signal until he notices it, which is why you need to get him out of the sight of other women.

And the whole pleasure of sex vs thrill of the hunt guys is part of a larger concept worth thinking about. Men and women have variations and each is unique, but there are broad categories that they fall into and the ones in different categories are motivated and turned on and off by different things and offer you different things. Figuring this out or learning what others have figured out lets you adjust your game to the person you are dealing with.

[Present]

peeking from behind your fan

<Searches frantically through her basement for her black lace fan and mantilla.>

I don't accept the charge that I was engaging in black-and-white thinking. Exactly what I'm finding useful in this thread is both hearing a range of individual differences and also trying to draw some respondable categories, because making categories is what the brain does best.

But the guy who's 100% clueless by the time he's near my age. . . well, he may need intensive remediation from you guys, rather than higher-volume signalling from me. The guy who's 100% clueless by my age is likely to be such a turnoff for me, in terms of his social ineptitude, that I am not willing to pursue him. If he pursued me, there is a small but non-imaginary possibility of me responding well.

[Present]

I think just like the dudes here screen for dtf, you should screen for secret society/lover dudes... That will help you tremendously, and you will not have to bother with strategy.

http://www.theskillsmethod.com/the-2...-to-seduction/

http://www.theskillsmethod.com/expos...om-an-insider/

The first rule of flight club!

I actually do screen, as do male PUA's, by communicating that I'm not interested in a relationship, and that life is totally fun and wonderful, that we can have fun together. Most men online express interest in monoLTR because that's what most women want to hear, or what they think most women want to hear. I almost never message a man who says he wants monoLTR. They often message me, and I say, "sorry, we're not compatible b/c I'm having a great time dating and don't have any interest in settling down." Then they backpedal. The WAY they backpedal gives me a TON of information about their strength, centeredness, frame, integrity, playfulness.

[Skills360]

The first rule of flight club!

I actually do screen, as do male PUA's, by communicating that I'm not interested in a relationship, and that life is totally fun and wonderful, that we can have fun together. Most men online express interest in monoLTR because that's what most women want to hear, or what they think most women want to hear. I almost never message a man who says he wants monoLTR. They often message me, and I say, "sorry, we're not compatible b/c I'm having a great time dating and don't have any interest in settling down." Then they backpedal. The WAY they backpedal gives me a TON of information about their strength, centeredness, frame, integrity, playfulness.

As i suspected, and why i provided both links, your screening sucks by your description... And will backfire cause you will just be more of a challenge and they will try to "convert you". When i have time i will pm you a profile i use, i may change it to fit what you are looking for, maybe it can help... Just make sure if you decide to use it, you do not use in South Florida.

[Assman]

Where you say you don't want to be seduced with escalation and playfulness b/c you're not a woman: Ummmm, maybe some TOTH guys might enjoy the role reversal of being seduced and chased? Or maybe lipstick lesbians would enjoy it? Just throwing out ideas here, because I can envision so many different types of seductions being fun and successful.

Yes, yes they do... But it is a different style for a woman i.e. teasing rather than leading the interaction to toy with his ego and provoke him to take action

[Silvertree]

If she invites you, without any fun flirtation and heat-building, does that work for you?

The guy who's 100% clueless by my age is likely to be such a turnoff for me, in terms of his social ineptitude, that I am not willing to pursue him.

I don't accept the charge that I was engaging in black-and-white thinking.

OK.

I have actually had several women directly say they wanted to leave the bar/party and go fuck. I'd guess that it was because I was moving too slow. Also, the first time I had sex, age 17, the girl made the first move, and quite aggressively. In all cases I said yes and didn't think any worse of them for it. It was more like I was surprised that it was this easy. They were all 7s or better and I already wanted to fuck them, but was unsure of their intentions and afraid to act. It never bothered me in the least.

A lot of guys are clueless, but that doesn't make them poor candidates for a FB or MLTR. Many guys are afraid to show any sexual intent because of all the propaganda about unwanted attention, or they expect it to move forward like in movies which have no connection to reality. What you are looking for is someone who is not locked into tradition on relationships and can handle sex without strings attached and not get possessive or angry when they find out you are fucking other guys. There is a lot of material in old posts on managing FB/MLTRs. Tubarao & Blackdragon have written on this extensively.

The other thing is, no one likes sex unless there is chemistry, physical attraction. If it is there, you shouldn't need much seduction and it won't be coming out of the blue unless the guy is clueless, if it isn't there it is unlikely to work out or be worth it. Like I said before, creating isolation should do it.

Two articles by Black Dragon that might help...

http://www.blackdragon-blog.com/2011...ips-explained/

http://www.blackdragon-blog.com/2012...-types-of-men/

And Tubarao's Classics on the topic...

http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.p...ship-Rules-3-0

http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.p...%28and-LTRs%29