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  • I suck with people - need advice

    I suck with people. Specifically when it comes "chatting", making new acquaintance and charming new people. I am currently taking a year off studies so I decide to get this part of my life handled so when I move to another city next year i will be more competent. My goal is to be THAT social guy. You know that guy that is good with everyone and knows the right people. Also i want a social circle that revolves around me in a sense that people will ask me for guidance and i will be their unfaltering silverback gorrila alpha leader. I want to get to the point where i could charm most people or at least get them to laugh.

    This is gonna sound stupid but my skills with women > skills with people in general. Coldapproach isn't a problem for me, especially when i am drunk i get that "situational" confidence and i transform into this cocky charming asshole who says obnoxious things to girls but they still digg it. But when it comes to day-to-day stuff. Man.. When i go to the gym i usually keep to myself and have a hard time being talkative to everyone. During the day i am in a state of mind where " just want to get things done" and get out of there as quick as possible. Or for example going to the store - i keep it polite i keep it short "Good day" "Thank you" "Goodbye". I want to change that. I need to get good socially so i can game girls in all situations.

    Right now i am leading a very hermit based lifestyle. Since i don't go to college (i am waiting to transfer) i spent most of my time by myself or with my MLTR. I just do a lot of reading and working-out(not as much, health problems), and some other life activities like getting my drivers license. I have a few good friends, but i don't stay in touch with them anymore.

    So my questions are:


    What are some good books on this subject? I have already read How to win friends and influence people and was fascinaited. I am curently reading Comedy writing secrets in hopes of getting in touch with my funny side.

    I want to do small challanges. Like when i go to the store try to make the sales girl laugh etc. Has anyone else done this? (i am sure they have) And if so, how would one go about doing this?

    I have seen some people charm people by being nice, showing interest, others by making them laugh then again there are those people who are complete assholes and talk about themselves yet people love them. What are your guys thoughts on this?

    What are some of the belifes that you guys (who are good with people) have about people,life and yourself? What are the belifes that allowe you to be always comfotrable in every social situation?

    Thanks in advanced.

  • #2
    I'd take a look at old school Mystery Method -- the whole approach was to become that super social guy who holds court over a group, keeps everyones attention while telling interesting stories, introduces people to each other / merges sets, and generally climbs up to becoming the most high value person in the room through social skills.

    I'm not saying I've done that, it seems like a lot of work which is probably why pua has more or less moved past this. But if that's your goal you should give it a shot.

    Comment


    • #3
      The first thing I would do if I were you is look in the mirror. Attractive people just get more love so do anything you need to do to improve your eye appeal. This MAY include adjusting body language so you are less threatening.

      I find people endlessly entertaining. When I was younger it amazed me to be talking to some old fart and find out he had been on four beachheads in WWII or some shit. They are probably all about gone now though so you might have to work harder to find them. Anyway, I find myself wondering what peoples stories are. There was a guy I would see around a while back. He was in a wheelchair and could hardly use his hands, barely able to speak. Serious car accident survivor. One day he just checked out of the facility he was living in and got on a bus to our town. Bought a house and hired someone to clean it and eat at two restaurants nearby. Every time I would see him I would tell my kids that that man had the biggest set of balls they would probably ever see in their lives. Living the dream.


      I read a book a couple months back but the author was so freaked out that someone might think he was being sexual that I have a hard time recommending it. Can't recall the name right off anyway. So just a couple of hints. These are not on a list like you MUST or anything just ideas.


      If you make eye contact say hello or nod a greeting.
      Use the chick way of opening someone by just floating around where they are at until you get their attention or something comes up.
      Talk to people who look like they are willing to talk back.
      Don't worry about having a perfect subject or anything. How's it going? Is a good starter.
      If you don't know what empathy is look it up and read about it. Just kind of thinking what its like to be that person.
      Being good with names can help. When you get their name, look right at them and say their name several times, do it again the next time you see them, repeat with as many people as you can, its a learned skill. I have a friend who was an army recruiter and after hearing a recruits name SSN etc once he would have it memorized. He said just paying attention was a critical factor.


      Back to that empathy idea. If you want to be a center of the social circle guy, knowing what people want can be huge. And yes they will usually tell you if you listen.


      Also, be aware that the guy you describe may not see himself in the same light that you see him from the outside looking in. He may get rejected or ignored a lot. You see his great interactions but maybe don't see the others. Be willing to let those slip off your back. A few of the lectures I have gotten from people. . . .


      Also be aware that this guy is not always the guy who is getting laid the most. While he is off helping someone in the social circle the other guy is fucking the chick. Of course that is not always true but don't have unrealistic assumptions.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Uncle Walker View Post
        Also be aware that this guy is not always the guy who is getting laid the most. While he is off helping someone in the social circle the other guy is fucking the chick. Of course that is not always true but don't have unrealistic assumptions.
        Yeah, isn't this interesting? I get easier lays when I'm the anti social mysterious Don Draper type than when I'm happy go lucky and having fun with my social circle. I think this has to be authentic to how you feel at the moment though, not forced. Go figure.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kane View Post
          What are some good books on this subject? I have already read How to win friends and influence people and was fascinaited. I am curently reading Comedy writing secrets in hopes of getting in touch with my funny side.
          Confidence and Power In Dealing With People by Les Giblin

          Feel the Fear And Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers

          Lions Don't Need To Roar by D.A Benton


          The best single piece of advice I can give for practical people interaction is to simply get good at asking questions. Listen to what someone says, pause for a second, then ask a question based on what they just said. Then listen to what they said, pause, and ask another question.

          If you just learn how to do that, and be comfortable with doing it, your social skills will experience a huge boost.
          How to have 3 hour meet-to-lays and nonmonogamous relationships with any type of woman:
          The Blackdragon Blog

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kane View Post
            I want to do small challanges. Like when i go to the store try to make the sales girl laugh etc. Has anyone else done this? (i am sure they have) And if so, how would one go about doing this?
            If you just want to open people for the purposes of friendly conversation, and not nessasarily for flirting, from the office cocktail party to the guy who makes your sanwitches, what I do is use one of about five or six different common topics to get the ball rolling. These topics are:

            1. News - "Did you see that baby horse that they rescued from the freezing river last night? Amazing!"

            2. Sports - "How 'bout them Tigers! Now that we signed McGillacutty we have the talent to go all the way!"

            3. Weather - "If we have one more day of this freezing cold I'm renouncing my citizenship and defecting to Jamaica."

            4. Celebrity Gossip - "OMG did you see Liza Minelli's hair at the Oscars? I once knew a girl that had blue streaks in her hair...We went to SEVENTH GRADE together, haha."

            5. Situational - "This is some really interesting music the band is playing. Technically complex yet strangely primal and rhythmic."

            6. Freebie - "OMG have you ever tried a Cronut? My friend Amy brought a whole box over yesterday and they are just to die for!"

            Note I am NOT (necessarily) recommending these topics for PUA openers, because by design they are SAFE topics. They are comfortable topics that almost anyone can relate to, so they will easily start conversations with like 99 percent of the people out there. But since they are safe topics they are non flirtatious and not particularly challenging, so you probably want to open differently when you go to do the PUA thing, but the above might work on a target HB as long as she is reasonably attracted to you from the start.

            Comment


            • #7
              @Kant

              Yeah i guess i could nitpick the old M3 for some good stuff. It is actually a solid model it was just the way most people used it that was the bane of it. Anyway, thanks for the input man.

              @Blackdragon

              I'll make sure to check those books out. I allready have feel the fear and do it anyway somewhere on a shelf here, time to digg it up. I tried the questions method before.. the results were.. mixed. I don't want to barage people with questions and put the entire weight of the conversation on them. From my observation and experience it's the people who do most of the talking that are very compelling to others.

              @Hawk

              That is awesome! I like that a lot. I was given advice to just talk about anything before but then some stupid subjects just crawl into my mind since there are so many possible topics. Narrowing it down to five to six normal subjects sounds like a great method. I'll definetly try it out the next time i am in a social enviroment.

              @Uncle Walker

              I most definatly need to work on my empathy skills. I'll be signing up in to an acting class soon. I am in awe off your ability to sit through and listen to some bum on the street. I went out with a friend once who got into this discussion with an old drunk guy. Couldn't stand more than 15min of this guys history, conspiracys and talk of "better days". Guess I was being too much of a judgmental douche.

              I wouldn't agree that the most social guy is not always the guy who is getting laid the most and here is why. Social guys (the club promoter guys) move in and out of so many social circles and have an abundant pool of women within this circles. They invite a lot of people to partys and get inviteted to a lot of partys so they have access to a lot of girls. While the not so social guy is stuck cold approaching with his buddies and has to start from scratch every approach the social guy is moving like water through circles. I am not saying that being that social guy is the best way to get laid but i am saying it is one of the better ones.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kane View Post
                I don't want to barage people with questions and put the entire weight of the conversation on them.
                Actually, that's exactly what you want to do. You want to keep them talking, preferably about themselves.

                One of the primary reasons I get laid as much as I do and make they money I do is because I do exactly that with people. Hell, I'm a frikin' master at doing that.

                From my observation and experience it's the people who do most of the talking that are very compelling to others.
                With all due respect, your observation is completely and utterly wrong.

                (Unless your Serbian culture is very, very different than my American culture. I have never visited your country so I suppose that's possible, but somehow I doubt it.)

                I think you are rationalizing your own sensitivities.
                How to have 3 hour meet-to-lays and nonmonogamous relationships with any type of woman:
                The Blackdragon Blog

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well i could be rationalizing my own sensitivities or it could be the culture thing but I also doubt that.

                  All i am saying that if you open a very "introverted" girl (or anyone for that matter) with questions, who is clearly not very social herself, and you can see that then you might consider taking the burden off of her and just talking bullshit. Just letting her experience YOU and your reality and values. People are very different. That's why i said i got mixed results with the questions method. Some people just naturaly started talking about themsleves others felt uncomftrable.

                  People who impose thesleves and their opinions and values the most get a following. Some people find it irritating but eventually just accept it and then other people are like sponges and suck up every word when around this type of people. I am not saying questions don't have their place all i am saying is that are many ways to skin a cat.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kane View Post
                    Well i could be rationalizing my own sensitivities or it could be the culture thing but I also doubt that.

                    All i am saying that if you open a very "introverted" girl (or anyone for that matter) with questions, who is clearly not very social herself, and you can see that then you might consider taking the burden off of her and just talking bullshit. Just letting her experience YOU and your reality and values. People are very different. That's why i said i got mixed results with the questions method. Some people just naturaly started talking about themsleves others felt uncomftrable.

                    People who impose thesleves and their opinions and values the most get a following. Some people find it irritating but eventually just accept it and then other people are like sponges and suck up every word when around this type of people. I am not saying questions don't have their place all i am saying is that are many ways to skin a cat.
                    im going to take a leap of faith and say that "its a cultural thing". I have never been to Serbia, but I was born a few countries away from there, also among the Slovaks, so I do have some experience with those types of people. what you describe - "people who impose themselves" - this is not another variation of skinning a cat. this is exactly what you said: "imposing". its overpowering and dominating. as someone once said "there is nothing Anglo-Saxon about [their style of communication]". when my family moved to the states all of our neighbors thought we were always fighting because of the yelling. nope - thats just how communication works. its not about right or wrong, its about who has the loudest voice and the most stamina. its who looks physically intimidating, who makes the craziest facial expressions. it is my observation that many, many slovak people are like this. and this is a really fucked up way to communicate. besides being unproductive, its actually unhealthy: the entire nervous system in these people is totally shot to shit. but back to the point - this is not what is meant by "asking questions". you dont just pick shit out of thin air. thats missing the first part of what BD said: listening. you listen to what is being said - really listen. take in the sum total of the words, the tone, the body language. take that all in, read between the lines and figure out what is really being said. take THAT in, work it around, and ask questions about THAT.

                    example:

                    HB: this chemistry class is pissing me off, the teacher is an ass, his tests are dumb, the experiments are lame, blah blah
                    simple line of questioning: how is he an ass, what kind of experiments are you doing, etc. [quick answers, conversation dies quick]
                    better line of questioning: why are you taking chemistry (to be a doctor), why.. ? tell me about that! what turns you on? helping people? connecting with people? what is important to you about relating to people.. ? [..enter story about childhood and bam! now you have access to 20 different doors, each one could have her talking for hours]


                    ..one more point. in the above example you are giving her space to blossom and bloom like a flower. in the other way of doing things - being imposing as you say - you crwd the space and you are actually being suffocating

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Oh, I see. So the it's not the questions in it self but type of questions. So you digg for character traits, feeling and motivations with questions? Am i understanding this right? I meant more something like on the first ball of chatting with (girls)people/opening them and carrying the conversation for the first time. Would you start of with those type of questions immediately? And if yes, how so?

                      Maybe i should have used a different word than "imposing". What i meant was exsposure. That is way even not so intelligent shows like Jersey Shore have an audience. It's exposed to massive amounts of people so in 1 out of 10 people 4 will like it the other 6 will say it sucks but then the 6 will want to show their friends "how bad and stupid it is" and maybe some of their friends will like it, thus repating the cycle. Just look at your music industry stars like Justin Beiber and Miley Cyrus who took all the sales last year thanks to her scandals. You see this in game when you have guys on facebook who are overly opinionated + witty get a lot of likes and comments. Now they are not necessarily smart or cool in fact most of the time they are losers but they just expose their frame of them being awesome others start believing them. They do their facebook marketing really well. Now from facebook that translates to their real life and people feel bigger rapport with them. And that is why i said exposure/imposure > trying for rapport with questions. I mean just look at people like Tucker Max, you don't see him asking questions do ya? But yet still he has fans who think he is awesome even though he is a douche.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kane View Post
                        Oh, I see. So the it's not the questions in it self but type of questions. So you digg for character traits, feeling and motivations with questions? Am i understanding this right? I meant more something like on the first ball of chatting with (girls)people/opening them and carrying the conversation for the first time. Would you start of with those type of questions immediately? And if yes, how so?
                        the goal is to get her talking about herself. this is the most optimal thing. why?
                        1) it takes pressure off you to talk.
                        2) people love talking about themselves. by leading here here, she is actually doing what she wants to do. and, btw, you know when people are really thinking. does she give you a canned response, or can you see her eyes moving, searching for things in her head? her facial expression is intrigued. etc.
                        3) when she is talking about herself it is an indicator that you are connecting and that she trusts you enough to open up.
                        4) this is an opportunity to learn about her. what is important to her, what are her values? how does she think, how does she reason? what does she not like? etc.

                        ^these are the things you are working to flesh out. move beyond the superficial "how is the weather" bullshit. of course you maybe have to start there - you dont approach a girl in the coffee shop with a deep opening right off the bat. you start small. in my experience, with my style, I can get certain women into this head-space within 2-3 lines of conversation exchange. its not about speed, sometimes I judge that I have to stretch it out for a few minutes while slowly ramping it up, but just to show that it is possible to get there very fast. sometimes they even verbalize something like "you dont mess around, you go for the deep stuff" or "wow, thats blunt", but then the momentum of their own interest (coupled with my strong frame and eye contact) moves them immediately into the direction we all want to go. sometimes it doesnt work, maybe this particular chick and I arent vibing. other times the chick is just really, really dumb, there is absolutely nothing going on in between the ears and she "never thought about that before". Oh well, switch gears.

                        point is, all of those things above are to be used in the seduction going forward. this way you are not flying blind.

                        Maybe i should have used a different word than "imposing". What i meant was exsposure. That is way even not so intelligent shows like Jersey Shore have an audience. It's exposed to massive amounts of people so in 1 out of 10 people 4 will like it the other 6 will say it sucks but then the 6 will want to show their friends "how bad and stupid it is" and maybe some of their friends will like it, thus repating the cycle. Just look at your music industry stars like Justin Beiber and Miley Cyrus who took all the sales last year thanks to her scandals. You see this in game when you have guys on facebook who are overly opinionated + witty get a lot of likes and comments. Now they are not necessarily smart or cool in fact most of the time they are losers but they just expose their frame of them being awesome others start believing them. They do their facebook marketing really well. Now from facebook that translates to their real life and people feel bigger rapport with them. And that is why i said exposure/imposure > trying for rapport with questions. I mean just look at people like Tucker Max, you don't see him asking questions do ya? But yet still he has fans who think he is awesome even though he is a douche.
                        dont mistake people watching tv shows or liking facbook posts to mean that those things result directly in sex. justin bieber can get ass because he is famous, it almost doesnt matter how he carries himself. also - we have to be careful because we dont really know what these people are like, we only know what we see on tv. people who get laid a lot generally are not bragging about it - so you wouldnt really know who it is. just because the person has a lot of facebook likes, or appears popular, does not necessarily mean that person is getting laid a lot.

                        the piece about "their frame of being awesome". yes. two things. the first is "fake it until you become it". (if you havent watched the TED talk you should). this is the first and most important thing. the second piece is around people getting drawn in. people generally are weak and have no idea how things work. so people get sucked into poor and/or boring frames by guys who dont know how to lead. people get sucked in because they are weak, but in those situations they may not stay very long, the novelty wears off quick. but when you actually are strong, when its more than smoke and mirrors, more than just sound and fury, when you actually have a strong character and know how to use it, then people will stick around. more than that, high quality people will stick around. dont be mislead by fools gold, just because in one given moment some guy looks big, talks loud, and is surrounded by people, does NOT mean he has it figured. (in this moment I am reminded of Cosy's recent thread about dealing with hot women, about stepping back and reframing, taking the larger spectrum into context).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Kane,

                          Let me ask you a question, do you have friends or relatives or acquittance with whom you already charming, confident and feel like easy to talk to?

                          If yes, than you already have all the needed skills and qualities to be a good people person and to make it happen even with new people.

                          The problem is, in your head, you think than you need to be someone that you are not in order to be that easy going guy, rather than be yourself. You falsely believe that you yourself is not enough. You create disconnect between who you are and who you think you need to be and you try to act based on image of who you think you need to be, it creates anxiety and fear because than you act from the place where you are not you.

                          If instead you decide to just stay yourself, than there will not be any anxiety.

                          That is not to say you do not need to work on improving yourself or your skills, but as far as doing fine when meeting new people and making new acquaintances and friends you already have all the skills you need. It is really just mindset.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            kane get a canned opener and run it on group sets eject after words you need the mystery newbie drill, do it today, 200 sets in 3 months , we shouldnt see you post in 3 months hit the field get some expierence!!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              @Bogs

                              Hmm.. I never thought about it like that.. The thing is i am not the same person with all of my friends. With each one I behave differently. I guess i still didn't completly get ridd of the old habbit of "being allowed" to act a certain way. I just need to keep reminding myself. "Fuck' em. They can adapt to me."

                              @Grodmeister General

                              Nah, man. I am waaay passed that phase. I have no problem getting new lays or keeping a girl or opening sets to what you might be aluding. I am talking about day to day social stuff. You know, like chatting to people and charming them where ever you go. I just feel pressured during the day and i am in a mode to just get things done but when i go out night gaming the pressure just evaporates. I don't know if anyone else experinced this or something simillar..

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