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  • #16
    Originally posted by Gunwitch View Post
    It isn't theory it's science Tarzan, i've extensive explained this in a post where a guy asked for a definitive explanation of how attraction/arousal happens, and I gave the science behind it from my materials for free to explain it.

    Don't throw me under the bus because you don't fully to a high degree understand the game. I do. You and 60yoc are both welcome.
    Gun, pretty cool to have you show up in this thread! I'm going to read the post you mentioned (which one is it, btw?) and make a more serious reply as soon as I get a chance, but right now I have to hit the sack, so I'll just describe EXACTLY what motivated my original response.

    Over the past several months it became easier for me to get new lays. As a result, I get a lot less excited when I'm seducing a new girl. It's become a familiar, almost routine situation. I remain very calm and controlled throughout the process.

    The thing is, SHE often gets VERY excited. I just go through the motions like a well-practiced dancer, doing everything correctly: increase sexual tension, slow down movements, tease, pull back a little, etc. Emotionally, I'm almost completely unaffected, just kinda enjoying how well it is going. But the girl sometimes goes completely crazy. I've had cases recently that the girl literally collapsed on me during initial escalation, unable to keep herself standing. Other girls display similar hyper-excited behaviors, such as freezing, shaking, crying, or vocalizing really loudly (even when we are in public).

    This stuff didn't happen to me way back when I was getting deep into sexual state with girls I just met. I got makeouts, but distinctly recall several cases in which I got much more into it than the girl did, especially as time went by. Granted, I was probably doing a lot of other things wrong at the time, including kissing too much. It's still striking how back then I was often more excited than the girl, and getting ever more excited myself as she was slowly but surely turning off. By contrast, now that I treat the whole thing like a dance rehearsal, I get these insane reactions.

    So, my natural conclusion right now is that girls actually like it when you remain totally unemotional during the escalation. Perhaps because it is the ultimate proof that you're an alpha, that you get laid regularly, that she's probably below your usual standards, and all the other good stuff that drives women wild with desire.

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    • #17
      So can we have some examples of conversations and body language of prolonged hand holding? And when do you finally break hands? Just keep holding hands the whole time for the rest of the night lol?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Tarzan View Post
        Gun, pretty cool to have you show up in this thread! I'm going to read the post you mentioned (which one is it, btw?) and make a more serious reply as soon as I get a chance, but right now I have to hit the sack, so I'll just describe EXACTLY what motivated my original response.

        Over the past several months it became easier for me to get new lays. As a result, I get a lot less excited when I'm seducing a new girl. It's become a familiar, almost routine situation. I remain very calm and controlled throughout the process.

        The thing is, SHE often gets VERY excited. I just go through the motions like a well-practiced dancer, doing everything correctly: increase sexual tension, slow down movements, tease, pull back a little, etc. Emotionally, I'm almost completely unaffected, just kinda enjoying how well it is going. But the girl sometimes goes completely crazy. I've had cases recently that the girl literally collapsed on me during initial escalation, unable to keep herself standing. Other girls display similar hyper-excited behaviors, such as freezing, shaking, crying, or vocalizing really loudly (even when we are in public).


        This stuff didn't happen to me way back when I was getting deep into sexual state with girls I just met. I got makeouts, but distinctly recall several cases in which I got much more into it than the girl did, especially as time went by. Granted, I was probably doing a lot of other things wrong at the time, including kissing too much. It's still striking how back then I was often more excited than the girl, and getting ever more excited myself as she was slowly but surely turning off. By contrast, now that I treat the whole thing like a dance rehearsal, I get these insane reactions.

        So, my natural conclusion right now is that girls actually like it when you remain totally unemotional during the escalation. Perhaps because it is the ultimate proof that you're an alpha, that you get laid regularly, that she's probably below your usual standards, and all the other good stuff that drives women wild with desire.

        Is this during a date, or when you initially approach girls in daygame?

        I've been more aggressive and escalating faster during my dates lately, and I've found that the girl usually gets turned on fast and seem to admire me for having the balls to escalate on her. By escalate, I mean rubbing their thigh, trying to kiss them earlier, putting my arm around their waist, or lightly touching/grabbing their ass, etc. Which usually leads to a lay. But of course, I don't lay them every time, and had one or two reject me.

        I'm still testing this out on cold approach daygame, but I've mostly been lazy and relying on dating apps.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Tarzan View Post
          Gun, pretty cool to have you show up in this thread! I'm going to read the post you mentioned (which one is it, btw?) and make a more serious reply as soon as I get a chance, but right now I have to hit the sack, so I'll just describe EXACTLY what motivated my original response.
          I think Gun might be referring to this post: http://www.seductiontuition.com/gunw...on-square-one/

          Over the past several months it became easier for me to get new lays. As a result, I get a lot less excited when I'm seducing a new girl. It's become a familiar, almost routine situation. I remain very calm and controlled throughout the process.

          The thing is, SHE often gets VERY excited. I just go through the motions like a well-practiced dancer, doing everything correctly: increase sexual tension, slow down movements, tease, pull back a little, etc. Emotionally, I'm almost completely unaffected, just kinda enjoying how well it is going. But the girl sometimes goes completely crazy. I've had cases recently that the girl literally collapsed on me during initial escalation, unable to keep herself standing. Other girls display similar hyper-excited behaviors, such as freezing, shaking, crying, or vocalizing really loudly (even when we are in public).
          Actually it sounds to me like you're doing what Gun is suggesting here:

          Originally posted by Gunwitch View Post
          If someone isn't on purpose sub communicating sexual value, authority frame and masculinity in some combination (which sexual state does for a beginner to intermediate guy naturally without him having to think about it), OR actually entering the sexual state itself....
          Tarzan you say you're calm and controlled (subcommunicating sexual value), increasing sexual tension (sexual state / vibe), slowing down movements (authority frame and masculinity). Gun is saying that for newbies the easiest way to do this is to go into sexual state--makes you start doing a lot of this automatically.

          So, my natural conclusion right now is that girls actually like it when you remain totally unemotional during the escalation. Perhaps because it is the ultimate proof that you're an alpha, that you get laid regularly, that she's probably below your usual standards, and all the other good stuff that drives women wild with desire.
          I agree with this, this is what I do as well, but I don't think this contradicts Gunwitch method at all -- though Gun can correct me if I'm wrong

          Gun, great to see you here. Where did your website go? I was thinking about checking out your MMA product but couldn't find it anywhere

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Tarzan View Post
            Gun, pretty cool to have you show up in this thread! I'm going to read the post you mentioned (which one is it, btw?) and make a more serious reply as soon as I get a chance, but right now I have to hit the sack, so I'll just describe EXACTLY what motivated my original response.
            I believe this is what he means - (I don't know if this is what Kant posted because I can't access that site)

            http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.p...l=1#post126274

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by DancingMonkey View Post
              I believe this is what he means - (I don't know if this is what Kant posted because I can't access that site)

              http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.p...l=1#post126274
              I stand corrected you're probably right

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by kant View Post
                I think Gun might be referring to this post: http://www.seductiontuition.com/gunw...on-square-one/



                Actually it sounds to me like you're doing what Gun is suggesting here:



                Tarzan you say you're calm and controlled (subcommunicating sexual value), increasing sexual tension (sexual state / vibe), slowing down movements (authority frame and masculinity). Gun is saying that for newbies the easiest way to do this is to go into sexual state--makes you start doing a lot of this automatically.



                I agree with this, this is what I do as well, but I don't think this contradicts Gunwitch method at all -- though Gun can correct me if I'm wrong

                Gun, great to see you here. Where did your website go? I was thinking about checking out your MMA product but couldn't find it anywhere

                No not that post, that is REALLY basic stuff.

                Site will be back soon, am doing a whole mega site thing sometime this year.

                On the topic though "totally unemotional" as I am taking it means he is feeling nothing at all. Which I don't understand, how do you suddenly become aroused by her when its time for sex, with no build up, no tension? How do you escalate her without any sexual tension? This sounds like "why a woman wouldn't be attracted to a Brad Pitt android".

                Unemotional works outwardly, as in not making faces at her like she is a medium rare steak, or chasing her around and letting her lead you. But if you don't have emotional states yourself any authority or dominance you build will give her nothing to follow at all.

                I'm not saying you are a liar by any means, you might be doing something I don't understand, or you may be very good looking and it offsets your poor game.

                But you called me a liar/said my method was poop (in so many words), because you didn't understand why I was 'being emotional' in my pickups and in my method, why I chimed in. Why I explained why I am.

                There might be more than one way to skin a cat, but I have explained mine in detail and many people use it and it works, it is a core fundamental of the entire community, and most game that people use who are good cold approach pickup artists. I and many others don't understand your game as is obvious by the comments. I don't understand what it is you are doing. But I think i've explained what I do, and people have done it long enough for it to the be exception (you) not the rule that it doesn't jive with people.


                Gun

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by DancingMonkey View Post
                  I believe this is what he means - (I don't know if this is what Kant posted because I can't access that site)

                  http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.p...l=1#post126274

                  Yep that's the one, an unedited audio transcript from my old course. It explains in detail what goes on in a female vs male brain in sexual arousal, emotional memory and perception of attraction.


                  Gun

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Gunwitch View Post
                    There might be more than one way to skin a cat, but I have explained mine in detail and many people use it and it works, it is a core fundamental of the entire community, and most game that people use who are good cold approach pickup artists. I and many others don't understand your game as is obvious by the comments. I don't understand what it is you are doing. But I think i've explained what I do, and people have done it long enough for it to the be exception (you) not the rule that it doesn't jive with people.
                    I think the point is you can pull all the triggers in the girl without being in a "sexual state" yourself.

                    So all the science is still there, you're still being dominant, leading a girl, ragging on her, etc, but you don't necessarily have to be actively turned on. You can get a girl horny without being horny yourself.

                    To me its the actions that matter, no so much the state. The state can help guide the actions, but once you know what action to take that's all you really need.

                    Seduction is certainly more fun while in a sexual state though!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I think the point is you can pull all the triggers in the girl without being in a "sexual state" yourself.
                      ^ i think that is what tarzan is saying as well... When i seduce in the dancefloor for example, i really do not get aroused, but i arouse the girl a lot(doing the bubble).

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        If there's no sexual state, then there's basically no seduction going on. It's basically just her being attracted to you based on your looks.



                        Originally posted by pureevil View Post
                        I think the point is you can pull all the triggers in the girl without being in a "sexual state" yourself.

                        So all the science is still there, you're still being dominant, leading a girl, ragging on her, etc, but you don't necessarily have to be actively turned on. You can get a girl horny without being horny yourself.

                        To me its the actions that matter, no so much the state. The state can help guide the actions, but once you know what action to take that's all you really need.

                        Seduction is certainly more fun while in a sexual state though!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by format View Post
                          If there's no sexual state, then there's basically no seduction going on. It's basically just her being attracted to you based on your looks.
                          Looks, style, vibe, etc. Yes.

                          But there can still be seduction going on. I've gone through the motions before, gotten a girl horny, brought her home, and passed out without fucking her cause my balls were already empty and I didn't want any of it to begin with, I just did the whole thing out of habit lol. To me it can be done.

                          Not something I want to really argue though, no need to discount the value of "sexual state." Gunwich's point is solid.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by format View Post
                            If there's no sexual state, then there's basically no seduction going on. It's basically just her being attracted to you based on your looks.

                            That is absolutely not true... As i said most of my seductions in the dancefloor are pure sexual arousal, and only about 5 girls have manage to get me horny dancing.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by pureevil View Post
                              The state can help guide the actions, but once you know what action to take that's all you really need.

                              Seduction is certainly more fun while in a sexual state though!
                              Tarzan actually said he 'suspects' it hurts game. This simply isn't the case unless someone is overtly showing it.

                              It's easier to have a fair amount of your escalation, dominance, and subcommunicated value on auto pilot as a state, so that you can focus on more charismatic outer game, social gambits, strong verbals etc.

                              Sitting and remembering to do eye contact properly, escalate kino, project an attractive voice and 10 other things (plus hell, put off phermones, or match up neural waves or some other shit we don't fully understand yet) can all be done with a really slow back burner state you just "go in to" when dealing with women. Then you don't have to focus on all the body language, masculinity, "alphaness" and outright physicality. It happens naturally while you run other game.

                              Micro managing ALL of the "triggers" when you could just be letting the basics get covered by state, that yeah like you said makes it a lot funner in the first place isn't the way to go.

                              After a LOT of time in the field, you can have most everything on auto pilot and don't HAVE to enter the state to achieve them all without thinking about them, but then when you do its as pureevil said funner anyway. It certainly doesn't hurt your game accomplishing these things by a state, your suspicion/theory is wrong there Tarzan.

                              Give it a FAIR try (again don't start looking at her like a piece of meat, while most new guys could do with a lot MORE of just that vs hiding their peenies up inside themselves) and you will see that they don't assume.... slightest bit of sexuality detected = you are a loser who is fawning over her.

                              Absence of it also doesn't make her feel as if you are an alpha male or high status man etc either. These are junk theories. These are projections of what she is thinking based on your theories, there is no truth to it psychologically.

                              Tarzan either you are really really fuckin good and in field a lot, and have a lot of this stuff on automatic. So you are walking on eggshells not to fuck with your methods at all because you are doing so well, "ain't broke don't fix it". Or you are getting by on looks. Or you simply don't understand what I am talking about at all and/or aren't interacting with women much to not get the lack of "focus" on your state that women have up until late game. This is why I said that what new guys would feel like is "being a pervert", most women wouldn't even notice outwardly at any judgement level, because the guys are so stifled and inside themselves state wise. They would feel like they are staring her down like a wild animal, and she wouldn't even notice it consciously because she isn't sitting and micro analyzing everything he is doing. They probably also wouldn't be a natural strong actor that would project it noticeably either.

                              (side note there are cultural differences worth mentioning here too. Middle Eastern and South American men who weren't raised in the USA, that aren't intimidated by women at their core for example, aren't well advised to "let it all out" haha. Well known true stereotype there, those guys don't tend to be ashamed to be sexual and dominant and such, and can even need to tone it back a notch to do cold approach pickups.)

                              Just saying, analyze this stuff, before throwing it out there to eschew using state in pickup.

                              Again back to the acting, projecting, her noticing it example. Some actors have won Oscars with classic, and others with method acting techniques, and given great performances both, some just get lucky and play the role they were meant for (looks in this metaphor haha).
                              That is all a fair amount of pickup is, a performance. While you might legit be really good technically, like a classic actor, that doesn't mean method acting is a shit way to give a performance, is what I am saying in a nuttshell.

                              Back to what pureevil said: Seduction is certainly more fun while in a sexual state though!

                              That's the state/method actor style of thinking, "lets pretend" "lets play" lets have fun. I feel it's always more flexible for a new chaotic situation that comes up. I don't wanna go "ok a dragon is chasing me, what would my eye brows be doing" I wanna go "ok how would I actually FEEL, lets pretend there is a dragon, its huge, I can feel its fuckin presence it is so large, agggg". Then my eyebrows do that anyway.

                              Same as a classic pickup example i've talked about before, end of the night, i'm about to get this chick to come home with me and get in my car. Her friends go "its a paaaaaarty! aghhh, COME WITH US AND THESE GUYS!", I don't go "oh shit what do I DO, I don't have a tactic for this". I don't panic, I don't grab a number and let her go get fucked by someone else after I worked her, I am in state, I am assuming attraction and rapport with this chick, I am fuckin "ON". She says she is going with them, and I go "fuck yeah" and get in the back of these strange guys car with her and her friends. The friends, the dudes, all look at me like "who the fuck are you motherfucker" I smile and say hi to everyone and go right back to grinding up on her. No one else even hit on her really, they probably assumed we were together, and that's how it stayed. State can carry you through the situations where there is no "technical" to be had.


                              Gun

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                              • #30
                                Somehow you are projecting sexual state at some level. Women aren't banging you because you are a really great dancer. That's not how it works.


                                Originally posted by Skills360 View Post
                                That is absolutely not true... As i said most of my seductions in the dancefloor are pure sexual arousal, and only about 5 girls have manage to get me horny dancing.

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