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So... aim to have no personality at all?

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  • So... aim to have no personality at all?

    Hello all, I've lurked here and similar sites for a while but am a newcomer. I'm noticing I see a lot of advice/instructions along the lines of: don't be funny, don't say anything interesting, don't seem to be too smart, in fact don't talk if you don't have to. I get the notion of letting a girl talk herself into feeling comfortable while you just affirm, but otherwise it seems like according to this model a lay happens based strictly on your appearance, attitude and body language. But the person underneath who is manipulating these elements should suppress himself as much as possible.

    I just am not a generic, white-cap-wearing bro and can't pretend to be one if I wanted; it wouldn't work. It seems to me that these "systems" boil down to shaving your individual characteristics down to as much of a nub as much as possible, while *also* maintaing a fierce confidence in and dedication to yourself and your essential attractiveness.

    Am I reading this right? I (think I) know that I've "gotten lays" in the past with help from the force of my personality and humor. I also have an attractive and unusual job that either impresses or intimidates any girls I'm working on. (The latter is a problem, I know.) While I'm attractive enough, I like to go for girls who might be considered to be higher value, and I have always thought these intangible elements are my tools to make up the difference. No?

  • #2
    There is no one method to getting laid.

    All you really have to do is

    - Approach
    - Talk
    - Touch
    - Isolate
    - Escalate

    Everything else is totally up to you. Yes you can always ruin something by overdoing it. Balance is important.

    I would say, systems are only good because they get people out there and taking action. Honestly, you'll improve more by posting field reports and letting people bring light to what it is you're doing wrong (if any), more than following a rigid system.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think it's not about what you do or don't do. But why.

      Maybe in the past people were kind of - 'how do I create attraction?' And now it's more like - how do I make use of what attraction is already inherently there.

      So who you are is obviously important. The advice is more about not trying too hard to impress a girl. Don't be the clown. Unless of course, that is who you are.

      From what you wrote I really don't think you need to worry too much. You probably have a decent balance.

      Comment


      • #4
        In short, yes, people who actively encourage others to express themselves and have no interest in pushing their own personality or ideas on others get maximum results. This is not just pickup though. For example, i know someone who is a superlatively successful salesperson which stems from a complete lack of interest in sharing anything personal with strangers.

        The ironic part is that often this type of personality stems from a basic lack of interest in forming connections with others, but not always. As people mature, they tend to be more in tune with the wants, needs and desires of others. Thing is, there are a lot of (insert judgmental adjectives here) people who just don't care about anyone's thoughts or opinions except their own. Furthermore, a great number of these people are single (wonder why....).

        Finally getting to the point now......if you are one of those people (like me) who genuinely wants to form deeper connections with others, I recommend trying out the selfless listener thing until you can't stand it any more. this will help you get in tune with others better. You will be able to find that happy medium and know when to reveal things about yourself and how much to reveal. Pro tip: it's probably less than you do right now. You will probably feel urges to share more, but you should deny them and if necessary, find another outlet for your ideas that doesn't have an impact on your sex life.

        Comment


        • #5
          I've never understood PU advice to be about not having a personality. I think it's about not being a dancing monkey trying to entertain her.

          Like Kant says, use your personality but develop the social acuity to see which parts of it work and which don't.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, first I have to ask what your goal is in starting this thread? If you feel like your approach works, then I don't see any reason to changing it...unless you simply want to experiment with different results.

            I am one of the guys who shares the philosophy of allowing her to be the star (or letting her think she is). Simply because people feel good when other people like them or are interested in them. That means having to put aside your own ego to get involved and excited about somebody else. Don't take my word for it...just ask yourself, are you happy when you're talking about your job and the girl sitting across from you seems interested in it?

            I suggest sitting back and doing less talking here because the struggling ones go overboard; packing "displaying higher value", "projecting sexual state" and other magic tricks to demonstrate. They try to be "cocky and funny" with shock-value jokes, but they come off so far from charming it makes me cringe. Just read the examples in this board if you need a better understanding. In these cases, these guys could definitely benefit from a less is more approach.

            One thing I would clear up though is I don't advocate dumbing yourself down. I'd look at from the perspective of: putting less emphasis on yourself. I suggest not criticizing her and allowing her to feel important, but the doesn't mean you say nothing about yourself. It just means you put less effort into trying to be this awesome figure you imagine yourself to be. The need and pressure to make really unflattering jokes or "display your sexual panther prowess" goes out the window and you can just relax.

            Comment


            • #7
              Keep in mind that some of the ideas in the community are backlashes against earlier advice. Back in the day there was lot of stuff about routines and stories. Guys felt like they had to always be talking or demonstrating value. It is easy to see a backlash coming from that right?

              I remember when I started, Gunwitch’s GWM said it was best to talk about pop culture like what was on TV. I thought please don’t tell me I have to start watching TV to get good with women. Rather than create elaborate stories in my mind about why the community was wrong, I simply ignored that stuff that didn’t work for me and tried the things that fit.

              IMO most people are used to conversations in which you share things about yourself and then they share about themselves. It encourages others to open up if you do to a certain point. Also, chicks are often living in a boring reality. They are hungry for something exciting and if they spend all the time talking about themselves there is nothing new for them. Welcome to my world bitch. But realize that your world is probably a lot more interesting if you just give enough to create interest and leave a lot of mystery.

              If you have a lot of value make her earn it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Uncle Walker View Post
                Keep in mind that some of the ideas in the community are backlashes against earlier advice. Back in the day there was lot of stuff about routines and stories. Guys felt like they had to always be talking or demonstrating value. It is easy to see a backlash coming from that right?

                I remember when I started, Gunwitch’s GWM said it was best to talk about pop culture like what was on TV. I thought please don’t tell me I have to start watching TV to get good with women. Rather than create elaborate stories in my mind about why the community was wrong, I simply ignored that stuff that didn’t work for me and tried the things that fit.
                Hahaha yeah, it's totally true. The backlash against your elaborate DHV stories is the "no-game" game but still, that's a personality. Everything you do is your personality. Your "personality" is just the tendency to react in a similar way to similar stimuli over time.

                I remember thinking the same thing about Gunwitch's method, too. Years later I don't own a TV, don't give a shit, and recently (at least) I've been getting laid like a rock star. Bring them to your world.

                Comment


                • #9
                  There's a bit of an art to honing your personality such that it's not "try hard", yet also not "boring". You will only develop this through lots and lots of practice.

                  Hint: the less you read, and the sooner you just go out there and just talk to girls, the quicker you will find this "sweet spot".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for all the thoughts! To address a couple...

                    The reason I started the thread is because I get halfway decent results but I want to improve. (One problem is, even if I'm just looking for something quick and recreational, I'm pretty sure I give off a BF vibe because I'm not yet fundamentally comfortable with letting my actions truly reflect what my thoughts/intentions about a girl really are. Also, I tend to be really streaky, and I suspect that that's not at all random but in fact a result of how I'm conducting myself.)

                    I was referring to specific things I've seen like "don't say anything funny." I've seen that in a couple places, yet I am naturally funny and 90% of the time can approach a girl and spontaneously make her laugh out of thin air. (Situational remarks, not canned lines.) This sure seems to be a positive. With that said, I do hear you that refraining from overselling is importantóI get that. If you're already walking back to your place together it's not a time to keep upping your perceived value.

                    The replies about letting the other person be the star, etc, are very helpful. I get that as an organizing principal for interactions, but was wondering about the theme I've seen about seemingly watering yourself down to be inoffensive. But I have no doubt whatsoever i have repetitive things that turn girls off and am not noticing it.

                    Something I've been trying lately in general in social situations is to be a listener. Sort of the same approach you'd have with a new Web discussion forumólisten actively for a while before saying anything. This takes some effort for me.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bloo View Post
                      Hello all, I've lurked here and similar sites for a while but am a newcomer. I'm noticing I see a lot of advice/instructions along the lines of: don't be funny, don't say anything interesting, don't seem to be too smart, in fact don't talk if you don't have to. I get the notion of letting a girl talk herself into feeling comfortable while you just affirm, but otherwise it seems like according to this model a lay happens based strictly on your appearance, attitude and body language. But the person underneath who is manipulating these elements should suppress himself as much as possible.

                      I just am not a generic, white-cap-wearing bro and can't pretend to be one if I wanted; it wouldn't work. It seems to me that these "systems" boil down to shaving your individual characteristics down to as much of a nub as much as possible, while *also* maintaing a fierce confidence in and dedication to yourself and your essential attractiveness.

                      Am I reading this right? I (think I) know that I've "gotten lays" in the past with help from the force of my personality and humor. I also have an attractive and unusual job that either impresses or intimidates any girls I'm working on. (The latter is a problem, I know.) While I'm attractive enough, I like to go for girls who might be considered to be higher value, and I have always thought these intangible elements are my tools to make up the difference. No?
                      For what it's worth my game is super verbal... I talk plenty. And I use all kinds of words and stories and sensual descriptions... I really try to relate with them not tell them things... There is a big difference... and I tell real stories about interesting things that relate to what my lady is telling me. If you are going to talk more, your pace and tone of voice is important. Talking too quickly or with a high pitched voice is not helpful. Speak quietly and slow down... This will naturally deepen your voice in an organic unforced way. Seduction... Like Jazz is intimate, it should be whispered... Like the way Chet Baker sings My Funny Valentine.

                      I also believe in the old Mystery Method concept of peacocking to some extent... which is not about being an generic Bro-Dude in any way. I think Arden Leigh in her rather good book on seduction aimed at women (The New Rules of Attraction) expands on the Mystery idea in a helpful way. In Arden's view it is about having a personal brand that you project... It is about your cloths, language, mode of transportation, venue selection, interior design, choice of music, fragrance, hair style, and occupation. Women like a man who is distinct from the pack... Project your distinction in a constant way.

                      The weakness in my game is my physicality... For many of the guys here ijji and Skills 360 for instance a seduction is a dance... I am athletic but have never been much of a dancer. My biggest sticking points when I started this were first touch and first kiss... I would get bashful, and I needed to see very obvious attraction in the woman to over come it... I used my verbal skills to compensate and to create that attraction... Allowing me to escalate with out becoming self conscious. So for me a seduction is a story... told in a conversation... Wrapped in a vibe... Surrounded by an ambiance.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just thought I'd share because this is fucking gorgeous (..and was mentioned by TTM, who I've taken quite a few recent pointers from):

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bloo View Post
                          Thanks for all the thoughts! To address a couple...

                          The reason I started the thread is because I get halfway decent results but I want to improve. (One problem is, even if I'm just looking for something quick and recreational, I'm pretty sure I give off a BF vibe because I'm not yet fundamentally comfortable with letting my actions truly reflect what my thoughts/intentions about a girl really are. Also, I tend to be really streaky, and I suspect that that's not at all random but in fact a result of how I'm conducting myself.)

                          I was referring to specific things I've seen like "don't say anything funny." I've seen that in a couple places, yet I am naturally funny and 90% of the time can approach a girl and spontaneously make her laugh out of thin air. (Situational remarks, not canned lines.) This sure seems to be a positive. With that said, I do hear you that refraining from overselling is important—I get that. If you're already walking back to your place together it's not a time to keep upping your perceived value.

                          The replies about letting the other person be the star, etc, are very helpful. I get that as an organizing principal for interactions, but was wondering about the theme I've seen about seemingly watering yourself down to be inoffensive. But I have no doubt whatsoever i have repetitive things that turn girls off and am not noticing it.

                          Something I've been trying lately in general in social situations is to be a listener. Sort of the same approach you'd have with a new Web discussion forum—listen actively for a while before saying anything. This takes some effort for me.
                          When you listen to advice you need to take it into context, one of the advocates for no verbal, not being funny etc.. is 60yoc, but that is what works for him, his voice is not the best, i also advocate not talking much(i now do more talking), cause i have a strong latin accent... In a club environment the music is really loud, and there are many distraction so compliance and escalation works well vs verbals.

                          My personality, is naturally trolling, busting balls funny, i incorporate a lot of that in my style. You need to adapt the method to you and your personality and not the other way around (credit dj. z).

                          The gun advice about tv shows, suits gun type personality (if you knew the guy you would understand).

                          Any type of in congruent action on your part is needy/plus shows a need to impress/which in turns is a lot of investment in your part and women will pick on that, which is unactractive.

                          When you display the core of who you are is polarizing which helps screen women, the problem is most new people do not really display themselves well, kind of like what kant said.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bloo View Post
                            The reason I started the thread is because I get halfway decent results but I want to improve. (One problem is, even if I'm just looking for something quick and recreational, I'm pretty sure I give off a BF vibe because I'm not yet fundamentally comfortable with letting my actions truly reflect what my thoughts/intentions about a girl really are. Also, I tend to be really streaky, and I suspect that that's not at all random but in fact a result of how I'm conducting myself.)

                            I was referring to specific things I've seen like "don't say anything funny." I've seen that in a couple places, yet I am naturally funny and 90% of the time can approach a girl and spontaneously make her laugh out of thin air. (Situational remarks, not canned lines.)
                            This is great! It's also what had me questioning whether you really want to go changing up something that's effective for you. I get that you want to improve your game; we're always trying to get better at something, but just ask yourself what your expectations are and whether it's reasonable. Because, I'm skeptical that you would improve much changing your conversation game; as you say it's already pretty good and fluid. There are probably a number of other areas you might focus on like style or simple environment changes in where you choose to meet women that might help more.

                            The replies about letting the other person be the star, etc, are very helpful. I get that as an organizing principal for interactions, but was wondering about the theme I've seen about seemingly watering yourself down to be inoffensive. But I have no doubt whatsoever i have repetitive things that turn girls off and am not noticing it.
                            This part I can't relate to. For me, when I'm saying I think about letting the other person be the star, the other part is that I consciously do not give a shit what the other person thinks of me either. It's like what I think the difference is between someone who is cocky and confident. If you're cocky to me, you have to put down others to build your self-worth. A confident person doesn't have to put down others, but is comfortable being vulnerable; in the sense they are not ashamed of the things they like or do...and speak freely about it.

                            And, If you talk about something you're comfortable with and it offends another person -- so be it. The rich people hate the poor people, and the poor people hate the rich. It doesn't matter what you say, somebody somewhere on this planet will be offended by even the kindest of words. Let's not forget Jesus was crucified. No point in trying to water yourself down cause you can't get away from it. If you do, you're absolutely right, you will become one boring mofo.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You're observations are correct.

                              When a guy tries to impress somebody it's usually a sign of low self esteem. Hence it's viewed by most as low value behaviour. It's the kind of behaviour also known as being the dancing monkey. It's try-hard, socially awkward and ultimately unattractive.

                              A guy who thinks this is something he has to do in order to be successful creates a lot of needless pressure on himself, especially if being socially outgoing and funny isn't natural to him. In the end it makes those jokes seem stilted, pressured and try-hard, and ultimately the woman will notice. Worst of all for the guy making all that effort, it's one of the tools women use to test if a guy is worthwhile.

                              Not so for the guy who is naturally funny and cracks jokes because it's the best way for him to amuse and express himself. A guy who has the self esteem to do that doesn't need to hide his humour in order to impress the girl. In fact, if he does, it will be just as bad as the guy who tries to be funny all the time. It's basically trying to be someone you're not because you're afraid of losing the girl if you happen to show your true self. If that's your motivation for hiding your jokes, or also trying to be funny, then it will fail either way.

                              The main message of such advice is this: You don't have to be someone you're not in order to impress the girl. In fact, trying to impress the girl by hiding your true self will probably hurt your chances with her more then it helps. And as said before, this goes just as much for the guy trying to hide his personality as it is for the guy who tries to be funny when he's not. So, heh, in a way it cooks down to "be yourself", though on a more profound level it explains how to do it for a spesific subset of men: The ones who aren't very funny or talkative (i.e. not you).

                              Yet there's still valuable things to learn from advice like that for funny and outgoing men, first thing being that you can relax. You don't absolutely have to be funny all the time, but if you feel like epxressing yourself, then by all means, please do! It'll show her a ton of good things about you.

                              On the other hand, showing a bit of restraint, and allowing her to work a bit more for you can also be very rewarding. I mean, there's nothing quite like leaning back and letting a woman do all the work to seduce you. That only started happening once I dared to be more passive. It's not so much about "not showing personality" as it is about letting her shine in your presence, daring to let her do more of the work. At the same time it's an eye opener to how little you actually have to do order to get laid.

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