Intro post - We're not in Kansas Anymore! Question about converting to open marriage

[plur4life]

Hey guys, just wanted to post an intro to try and get to my 5 post quota. I really just want to post my situation and question to the relationships section, but I suppose I can post it here in the meantime.

I am a 31 y/o male from Kansas in a monogamous marriage it a 28 y/o woman for 4 years, together 7 years. I didn't really discover BD's stuff until it was "too late" and I wouldn't have gotten legally married haha. We are about to have our first kid, due in less than 2 weeks, so that's a BIG change as well.

I would say I pretty much have the "perfect" marriage besides the whole monogamous part. If I could unlock that, I would consider it the "perfect" marriage. She gives me basically no drama, and there has been none even during the whole pregnancy. The VERY few times it has happened she apologizes after or it is indeed something I did wrong. I am also VERY fortunate to have set the proper frame by chance when we started getting serious that I will basically "do whatever I want when I want". I am able to travel wherever I want, go out anytime, and am basically 100% free. For example I went on the Groove Cruise with my brother because she doesn't like EDM. How many wives would let their husbands do that? I can have sex with her whenever I want - I can probably count on one hand the times she has refused due to non-medical reasons in the past 7 years. That said, we end up doing it about 2-3 times a week on average. I would say I have a "normal" or maybe even below-average sex drive - especially compared to most of you on here I'm sure.

I guess my question is how should I go about opening up my marriage? I have read BD's book on how to convert to an open marriage, but one of the key points is you have to be willing to divorce over this issue - it is a non-negotiable. I guess to me, it IS negotiable at this point because I am not willing to throw away my near-perfect marriage over this issue........yet. I have introduced it once and it did not go over well for obvious reasons - we are monogamously married and she couldn't believe I would even consider something like that. Which is true, I married and committed to her only to discover this possibility after the fact. I should not have an expectation for her to change since that is not what she signed up for and I can't force her into it since she will resent me.

I think my only chance is to introduce her to the possibility again and just keep it in her mind. I just got the book Sex at Dawn and could start a discussion about it once I read it. Also one of her best friends is bisexual and in an open marriage (basically swinger type) and I already talked to her and I'm sure she'd be very supportive in open discussions with my wife. I will also say I have had the ability to cheat in my travels several times, but have remained 100% faithful, which I think will be very helpful in this matter. Any thoughts on the matter is appreciated!

[Hawk]

You sound like you have a very good woman for your wife - a true lucky man and I mean that with sincerity. If it were me I wouldn't try to 'open up' the marriage, that would probably break her heart from the way you describe her, she sounds very devoted to you.

If I needed some strange from time to time I would just consider having a very discreet affair on the side - what momma don't know won't hurt her and all right?

I would consider putting an 'attn: BD' in your post title as he seems to be the resident expert in open relationships, his input should be invaluable to you.

And BTW welcome to the forums!

[Sase]

... I am a 31 y/o male from Kansas in a monogamous marriage it a 28 y/o woman for 4 years, together 7 years. I didn't really discover BD's stuff until it was "too late" and I wouldn't have gotten legally married haha. We are about to have our first kid, due in less than 2 weeks, so that's a BIG change as well...

So you're looking for an appropriate time to bring up discussion about opening up the marriage. Well, you found THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME PERIOD Please trust me on this. Childbirth is a very vulnerable time for the woman. First child? Even more so. She will need your undivided attention and full support. They both will. Welcome to the forum. Now go away and come back in three years. When your baby will be three years old is when your wife will feel less vulnerable and more independent. And expect these next three years to be the most trying of your marriage. (Also they can be the most wonder filled if you chose to focus on your family.) Your wife will go through postpartum, lack of sleep, insane anxieties and she will discover that she can love way more than she ever could. (And at times she will have thoughts of leaving you and the baby and/or just killing herself.) Her sex drive will probably dwindle, and even if not, you will no longer be #1 in her life. Not by a long shot. Buckle up, rough ride ahead. Exciting life ahead!!! Don't let your current confusion fuck-up your three lives.
Also, years from now, when she does agree to open the marriage she will easily have a dozen men waiting their turn at her beck and call while you'll have to work hard for each notch. Make sure you're OK with that. Your wife sounds like a wonderful woman. She's not rocking the boat. Why do you?
Are you looking for variety to restore lost sex drive on your part? If so then there might be other kinds of help out there.

[plur4life]

Thanks for the well-written replies. I only considered mentioning it before the baby arrives to have it on her mind now and possibly be a little more accepting of it and tell her I wouldn't act on it for a long time, but it def is terrible timing. Yes I think I just want a release basically, and perhaps something very discreet would do the trick. I just don't want to cheat as I feel it would hurt my frame. I can be 100% confident because I haven't done anything wrong as of now. I really want her on board so I can be 100% congruent with myself and with her. I feel that her trusting me 100% and me not breaking that trust is a huge reason why I am as free as I am.

I also do realize she could go out and fuck basically any guy that night if she really wanted to. When I brought up the subject before, she expressed no desire to be with anyone else. There was a reddit thread in the poly section of a guy who wanted to open up his relationship but his gf didn't but went along with it anyway and ultimately she was banging guys left and right and he didn't get any action and regretted opening it up and she left him. I am fairly confident I could get laid, but it would definitely be WAY more difficult than her.

I think I should give some more pertinent background info. She is actually my first and only one that I've been with. This is because I used to be super Christian back in the day and wanted to wait until marriage. When I first met her parents 7 years ago I was planning on going to seminary and law school at the time. I have done a complete 180 from those days and she has had no problems with the person I have now become. It all started with a Steve Pavlina conscious growth workshop and an article he wrote on how to graduate from Christianity. She has been with 5 guys and I think only 1 was serious. She also grew up Christian, but wasn't that serious about it when we met and is even less so now, especially after my transformation. I have also recently gotten into the rave scene majorly and doing everything that entails and she lets me do my thing even though she hates EDM and doesn't go. I have become a brony too and she doesn't even bat an eye. She really is an incredible woman.

I guess I just feel I am "missing out" and as a man "should be" fucking as many women as possible. I am happy with our marriage and as I said earlier, this issue is definitely not a non-negotiable for me now or maybe even ever, depending on if things are still going well down the road. I am honestly not even totally sure I want to open it up considering what is at stake.

[Kit]

"As a man should be fucking as many women as possible"
And this is where idiots are born.
You don't NEED TO do such a thing, it's simply an option that at some moments in life can be very great and other moments not. Bringing up such a thing at one of the possibly most beautiful moments of your life is a horrible thing to do.
Wait at least a while. The mother needs to bond with the baby in a safe manner. By bringing it up now you are risking that the mother will get upset and if you do that, you risk her ability to give a "safe" healthy bonding environment to the baby.

Yes it's definitely something you can think of, but to do it because you "should"? That doesnt seem logical. Also take into amount her hormones are heightened right now, she may take it way more emotionally than in normal circumstances. If you wanted to warn her, you should have done waaaay earlier, but if you still want to do it, wait at least a year. It's not the end of your life..


Now be a man and suck it up for a while.

[SteelyDan]

I guess I just feel I am "missing out" and as a man "should be" fucking as many women as possible. I am happy with our marriage and as I said earlier, this issue is definitely not a non-negotiable for me now or maybe even ever, depending on if things are still going well down the road. I am honestly not even totally sure I want to open it up considering what is at stake.

That's really the only reason? The only way I would open up a marriage is if one person or the other were screwing around and kids were already in the picture. Even then, it would be a prelude to divorce.

Like Sase and Kit are saying, your timing really couldn't be worse.

[The Thin Man]

Wait until the baby is at least 1... If she is in the last weeks of pregnancy treat her like she is made out of glass, she kind of is. After the baby is borne everybody's sex drive is likely going to crash for a few months... Enjoy the baby they are fun and don't stay babies for long... In 10-12 months when her sex drives starts to return more and more... Make the open relationship a mutual project, it is not about cheating it is about meeting other couples or a third partner etc... Even just having sex with each other in a sex party kind of atmosphere. That way the broader sexual menu is not in the way of the pair bond, which with a child is going to be important to both of you.

If you were unhappy or deeply unsatisfied with your wife I would say leave her... Life is too short... but if your marriage works except for the lack of variety, and by this I mean really works. Then keep it an make the other woman/men a mutual project. You need not be bound by societies conventions.

[tryhard]

I haven't done anything wrong as of now.

Yes, according to your 'do no wrong' philosophy you are fine.

But the problem is this philosophy is a load of shit. It ignores the possibility of harm caused by inability to behave like a fucking man. This means deciding what you want and pursuing it. You are letting yourself off WAY too easy. You've let life happen to you, and are waking up at the worst time, when your options are most narrow. By being 'selfless' you've actually just been storing up your own desires for years. You pressed pause and now suddenly you want to press fast-forward to make up for it.

[plur4life]

Some more great posts, my friend was right in recommending me post this here. I admit I fucked up. I settled down too early, was falsely programmed through Christianity and only now want to "sow my wild oats". I am very grateful for the situation I have and realize most married men can only dream of the kind of situation I am in. I am trying to have my cake and eat it to. While someday it might be possible, I definitely am not going to even bring up the possibility for quite awhile. I am happy where I am at and will definitely focus on my family during this time.

I also don't want you to get the picture that I'm off gallivanting all over the place while neglecting my wife. I'd say it's quite the contrary in that she feels very taken care of and trusts me completely, so she gives me the freedom to do the things I want, and I don't abuse it. It all ties in together. I will not ruin this special time and you guys have helped me realize that. Once the kid is a little older and we are more stable again will I consider the issue again. I appreciate all your input!

[Silvertree]

I am a father, and I was where you are now, 22 years ago.

For now, I highly recommend getting into being a father, it is the best/worst most joyful/trying job you will ever have, and the first few years are a special time that will shape your child forever. If you do your job well, your relationship with your wife will be strengthened. If you do poorly, you are in for a hurricane of trouble.

You should be using this place as a source of learning relationship management, as that, short term, is the most useful thing you can learn here. There is going to be a lot of stress on your relationship in the next few years, and it is going to take every ounce of leadership skill and every erg of energy you have to make it to that wonderful day when the little tot heads off to school. Your wife is going to loose all the happiness hormones a few months after the birth as the drudgery of childcare sets in. That is when you either do it right or screw up monumentally.

Don't let little things rock the boat to where it sinks, and enjoy the ride.

The next few years will mature you a lot, which is highly attractive to women. Keep reading about seduction and female behavioral traits here too. The time to use them will come. Men stay attractive much longer than women.

You have a lot of deprogramming to do. I came from a fanatical Catholic home and was educated by fanatical Priests and Nuns, so I understand the depth of the hole you have to climb out of. It took your whole life to get you in that hole; it is going to take more than a few months to get you out of it.

[pureevil]

For now, I highly recommend getting into being a father, it is the best/worst most joyful/trying job you will ever have.

I don't know if you saw all the news articles on a study that was published earlier this month, but apparently parenthood runs a high risk of affecting a person more negatively than the death of a loved one.

One of the articles: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...-a-new-parent/

Study: http://www.demogr.mpg.de/en/projects...ssion_5339.htm

This is prob OT, but is this true in your experience? I def agree, given this information, that the OP would do best focusing on parenthood for the next few years before throwing an open relationship into the middle of things.

[Silvertree]

Parenthood changed me in a lot of ways. It forced me to grow up, for one. I was a 44 year old teenager when the kid was born. I am glad I did it.

I am a much stronger, more stable, more together person today because of child rearing. It forces you to put the needs of another ahead of your own and teaches you to manage chaos. It was also a lot of fun. From making cookies with a 3 year old, to instructing a 15 year old as she heads into rush hour traffic for the first time, at the wheel of your car; it is a wild ride. Right now the big deal is finding the right Grad School program. It never ends.

[Sase]

PE, that study is idiotic. Maybe the media misses the point in it's rush to sensationalize but I don't see where they are heading with that question.
A couple of years ago I jumped back into the low-pay-long-hours non-profit job I had previously quit in 2000. It's really my "dream job", my life mission. If you asked me how happy I was a couple of years back, when I was freelancing, self-employed, care-free coasting through life, I am sure I would have rated my happiness higher than now. What does that tell you? Exercising and calorie tracking also make me less happy, while gorging myself and zoning out in front of the TV feels very content. Volunteering as an EMT for the local fire department made me very "unhappy" for sure. After a sleepless night, trying and failing to save the life of some youngster who decided to drive a little too fast, I know I would have rated my life a few points less happy. Receiving gifts makes me "happy". When it comes to me donating to charities, I procrastinate, I am torn, filled with doubt, and end up making a bunch of meaningless calculations. So: charity, volunteering, life mission, diet, exercise, and, yes, parenthood can all be construed as sources of unhappiness. If you are asking the wrong question, that is. I'm sure you can add more to the list.
Here are a different type of questions: What adds value to your life? Is there something/anything, or someone/anyone you are willing to die for? Here's a tricky one: If a child coming into your life changes it so that you'd be willing to die to protect that child, does that make your life worth more or less than it was before the child's arrival? Hmmm...
I don't know what childless people think about on their death bed. I know that for me, when the time comes, the hardest thing to let go will be my children. There is no close second. No wish that I could have spent more hours at the office, no missed financial opportunities, not even the regrets over some chick or another that I could have banged and I didn't. LOL! None of that comes close to the feeling of fuzzy warm baby head under your chin, falling asleep against your heartbeat. You see, parenthood brings a different kind of happiness in your life. Watching the unfolding of this miracle: human life, the memories you build while witnessing and facilitating their discovery of this world, THAT is the hardest thing parents have to let go off on their death bed. That's a happiness that cannot be measured against anything else.

[pureevil]

Here's a PDF of the full study, its not that simple, its been an ongoing 16 year study: http://download.springer.com/static/...d06ec2f781a82d

I agree only so much can be inferred by any one study, but i do think there's value in analyzing the levels of subjective well being starting two years before pregnancy, during pregnancy, and after chilbbirth. It only goes to one year after childbirth, I don't know why they stopped there, hopefully they'll continue the study with the same sample of people for additional years, as by year 2 or 3 there could be a dramatic uptick for all we know.

Its interesting to see the spike that pregnancy causes, and the drop after the child is born. This is worth bringing up because the OP is about to enter this phase, where people lose a lot of sleep and their freedom disappears. It makes sense that their subjective well being would drop for the first year. So this may not be the best time to bring up an open relationship, add another potential stressor on top. I'm agreeing with Silvertree here, this backs up his advice to focus on being a father for the present time, and bring up the open marriage once everyone settles into the new lifestyle that a baby causes.

I do think you have some good additional questions that could also be analyzed before, during, and after for how they change over this time period, that would help round out the picture.

I disagree with your "charity, volunteering, life mission, good diet, exercise" analysis, my hypothesis would be that a person's subjective sense of well being would increase as these are added into one's life.

[Silvertree]

The first two years are the most work and stress. After that, the child can hold conversations and is a better companion, and is sorta housebroken. At one, we were calling the kid, The Little Tornado. The time from when they can crawl through where they have learned the major safety rules is a lot of stress. Before that, they cannot hurt themselves if you do not leave them where they can fall off of anything. I usually set the kid on a blanket on the floor.

We also were older and expected to have no life for a few years. But my overall happiness was high. You have to learn to enjoy different things and adapt. I watched a lot of kid TV & Movies and played a lot of board games for age 2 - 6.