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Intro post - We're not in Kansas Anymore! Question about converting to open marriage

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  • #16
    Originally posted by plur4life View Post
    Hey guys, just wanted to post an intro to try and get to my 5 post quota. I really just want to post my situation and question to the relationships section, but I suppose I can post it here in the meantime.

    I am a 31 y/o male from Kansas in a monogamous marriage it a 28 y/o woman for 4 years, together 7 years. I didn't really discover BD's stuff until it was "too late" and I wouldn't have gotten legally married haha. We are about to have our first kid, due in less than 2 weeks, so that's a BIG change as well.

    I would say I pretty much have the "perfect" marriage besides the whole monogamous part. If I could unlock that, I would consider it the "perfect" marriage. She gives me basically no drama, and there has been none even during the whole pregnancy. The VERY few times it has happened she apologizes after or it is indeed something I did wrong. I am also VERY fortunate to have set the proper frame by chance when we started getting serious that I will basically "do whatever I want when I want". I am able to travel wherever I want, go out anytime, and am basically 100% free. For example I went on the Groove Cruise with my brother because she doesn't like EDM. How many wives would let their husbands do that? I can have sex with her whenever I want - I can probably count on one hand the times she has refused due to non-medical reasons in the past 7 years. That said, we end up doing it about 2-3 times a week on average. I would say I have a "normal" or maybe even below-average sex drive - especially compared to most of you on here I'm sure.

    I guess my question is how should I go about opening up my marriage? I have read BD's book on how to convert to an open marriage, but one of the key points is you have to be willing to divorce over this issue - it is a non-negotiable. I guess to me, it IS negotiable at this point because I am not willing to throw away my near-perfect marriage over this issue........yet. I have introduced it once and it did not go over well for obvious reasons - we are monogamously married and she couldn't believe I would even consider something like that. Which is true, I married and committed to her only to discover this possibility after the fact. I should not have an expectation for her to change since that is not what she signed up for and I can't force her into it since she will resent me.

    I think my only chance is to introduce her to the possibility again and just keep it in her mind. I just got the book Sex at Dawn and could start a discussion about it once I read it. Also one of her best friends is bisexual and in an open marriage (basically swinger type) and I already talked to her and I'm sure she'd be very supportive in open discussions with my wife. I will also say I have had the ability to cheat in my travels several times, but have remained 100% faithful, which I think will be very helpful in this matter. Any thoughts on the matter is appreciated!
    In your situation what i would do is little by little start with the brainwashing process, then the easiest and most realistic way is to do swing clubs (high class ones and good ones), meanwhile i would do escorts (if you have the finances)... Really really really bad timing though, i lean in your situation toward escorts.

    p.s. in before nwp destroys me, i already know what you are going to say, my apologies in advance...

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by pureevil View Post
      Here's a PDF of the full study, its not that simple. . . .
      I think its important to take judgment out of a discussion like this one. In my case, the intimacy in my marriage plunged, and so did sexual frequency. We became more of teammates than mates. The reality of parenting set in, the fear that something bad might happen was huge. Yes, it was the reason I bothered to breathe and far more my mission than hers but we can still be honest about the negatives as well as the positives.

      P4L this might be important for you now too. I restructured my self image. I began the process of becoming a frumpy old guy with kids. Things like being decisive, embracing tension, being bold, teasing, being attractive, etc took a big step backward. It was all about creating a calm stable environment to raise kids. I think I went to far, but then again I might not have made a mistake and it was her. It takes two to tango and maybe she just didn't want to dance.


      Anyway, one of the biggest changes I had to make after the D was to go back to being an attractive man. I can assure you that being a such is not incompatible with being a good father. Do you best not to lose that. And while you wait for a better time you can decide whether this is really something you want to do. BD is just a man. His ideas do not have to be yours. If you do decide its something you want to pursue and when the time is right, I will encourage you to flirt with her with the idea. It is an emotional thing not a logical one. Do you find so and so attractive? Would you go fo it if you had the chance to sleep with [insert her hot guy from Hollywood]?


      But not now.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Uncle Walker View Post
        I think its important to take judgment out of a discussion like this one.
        I wasn't judging, not sure that's what you're meaning, just clarifying. I make a conscientious effort to never judge, and think "should" in most contexts is the most useless and harmful word/concept in the english language.

        Hence a scientific study that delivers objective counter-intuitive results. It backs what Silvertree, and now you, two guys with experience here, are saying: to hold off on an open relationship attempt till everyone's settled into the new lifestyle.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by pureevil View Post
          ... I disagree with your "charity, volunteering, life mission, good diet, exercise" analysis, my hypothesis would be that a person's subjective sense of well being would increase as these are added into one's life.
          Maybe I was unclear. I agree with your hypothesis. The study measured the subjective sense of well-being in the moment and found correlations between that and the likelihood of having subsequent children. It is a boring study. Most germans want more than one child, the study shows that when under stress, people are less able to follow through with their plans. We are less likely to be proactive when urgent and important things (toddlers) need all of our attention. As in other instances in life, when pushed against the wall, that is the most important (and most difficult) time to be economical and proactive. Those results are not surprising. We all knew that for a while. To make the "results" more exciting for the media, they noted an increase/decrease of self-reported well being over time. That created paradox. Paradoxes make good news fodder. But the participants were not asked "are you less happy now than before the child was born?" If they had been asked that, then the results would have been different.
          My examples stand. Here are a few more life situations:
          Ask a student on spring break in Myrtle Beach and his life is a 10. Same guy a few years later pursuing his dream career, his life is at 8. Is he worse off? Should he go back to college life? Would you? Anyone could, you know. Nobody does it.
          Vacation planning, preparations, and expectations are one or two points more exciting than the unpacking, memories, and souvenirs of the same vacation. Does that mean that vacationing is bad for our well being?
          A 17 year old who just got accepted in an exceptional ivy-league collage thinks herself very smart indeed. A 10 in academics on a 1 to 10 scale. After four years of college she knows she could go on to graduate school and then to a doctorate degree. She was not the best in her class. And she just learned about how much there is to learn about. She sees herself as a 7 or 8 in academics. Does that mean the 4 years of college was bad for her academically?
          As our horizons expand we get to aim further. It is the same with parenthood.
          Back to OP. Listen to all but give more weight to the advice from people who have gone through parenting. You will understand more of it when you'll be a parent yourself. As a parent I can fully understand, resonate and agree with SiverTree's or UncleWalker's experience and advice. Not so much with Skills'. Hire a hooker. Get caught. Unleash the wrath of a new mother. She might just cry and forgive you. Maybe. More likely she will turn against you forever. And she will rally her parents, yours, your friends, the church, and every judge in county against you. Your girlfriend and the mother of your child are very different women. Unless you have experienced fatherhood it's going to be very difficult to fully understand that.
          OK, some practical advice: P4L, in all your posts you mention your wife's benevolence towards you. She either accepts who you are becoming or LETS YOU do things. Think about that. I'd want to hear your thoughts on that first before I jump in with suggestions. Where does that attitude come from? What would be a better attitude?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Sase View Post
            Back to OP. Listen to all but give more weight to the advice from people who have gone through parenting. You will understand more of it when you'll be a parent yourself. As a parent I can fully understand, resonate and agree with SiverTree's or UncleWalker's experience and advice. Not so much with Skills'. Hire a hooker. Get caught. Unleash the wrath of a new mother. She might just cry and forgive you. Maybe. More likely she will turn against you forever. And she will rally her parents, yours, your friends, the church, and every judge in county against you. Your girlfriend and the mother of your child are very different women. Unless you have experienced fatherhood it's going to be very hard to fully understand that.
            OK, some practical advice: P4L, in all your posts you mention your wife's benevolence towards you. She either accepts who you are becoming or LETS YOU do things. Think about that. I'd want to hear your thoughts on that first before I jump in with suggestions. Where does that attitude come from? What would be a better attitude?
            Wow this is an incredibly thought provoking post! I literally just asked her if she accepts the man who I've become and her answer was, "I wouldn't be with you if I didn't." Powerful words from an amazing woman. 5 years ago in Jan. 2010 I went to a Steve Pavlina Conscious Growth Workshop (seems way longer ago than that!). Since then I would say I have become an entirely new person from my conservative Christian days. From becoming an avid raver and all that entails (being very responsible I might add) when she hates EDM, to becoming a brony, to completely renouncing Christianity (I believe in a more Neil Donald Walsh type of God), to becoming active in couchsurfing and hosting strangers in our house (not a lot of Kansans I've talked to would even consider it - imagine that! My wife was VERY skeptical at first too), to discovering entrepreneurship and risking all I had in a field I had ZERO experience in and finding an amazing tribe of like-minded folk - not one person believed in me, not my family, or her family, or even she was very skeptical but still supportive - I just now asked her thoughts and she said she thought I would give up on it and do something else, I would say it's true that she does accept me for who I am and who I have become.

            The one thing she is not on board with is the open marriage though...lol, but for good reason. That is not what she signed up for. She couldn't believe I would even consider something like that when I brought it up quite awhile back. I feel later down the road she may eventually come to accept it if I introduce it correctly though, but I am going to focus on my family until that time comes. I appreciate your post and look forward to your response.

            Comment


            • #21
              You are betaizng yourself. Why is her acceptance of you so important? Strength comes from within. Be the Man. Expect to be tested. Pass with a smile. Reward her for appreciating you withdraw reward when she is ungrateful. gotta run I'll clarify later.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by plur4life View Post
                She couldn't believe I would even consider something like that when I brought it up quite awhile back.

                I feel later down the road she may eventually come to accept it if I introduce it correctly
                @plur4life ,

                Some blunt/tough love coming up: You're coming at this from an ass-backward perspective.

                You're approaching this conundrum in "Guy Mode" ... the way a guy thinks.

                Guys talk logically about what they want, and they think they'll get women to respond by doing that.

                Women respond to feelings.

                You need to start a program of attaching good feelings to the concept of an open marriage.

                This will take time.

                You subcommunicate this ... You do not "bring it up."

                Use that time to be an awesome dad to your new kid.

                And work on your long game.

                There are more ways to enhance this effort, but let's just start with this. If you'd like some other ideas, please say so.
                ____________________________________________

                PS - Keep in mind that old saying. "Be careful what you wish for- you may get it!"

                Make sure before you start any program of influence that you are crystal clear in your mind what your goals for an open marriage are.

                There are open relationships and open relationships.
                • Do you want to swing
                • do you want 3somes
                • are you a cuckold fetishist, i.e., do you want to watch her
                • do you want to do sexual spirituality/tantric personal development that involves sharing with multiple partners


                List this shit out and have your goals in place before you even begin to work on her

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by throughfare View Post
                  @plur4life ,

                  Some blunt/tough love coming up: You're coming at this from an ass-backward perspective.

                  You're approaching this conundrum in "Guy Mode" ... the way a guy thinks.

                  Guys talk logically about what they want, and they think they'll get women to respond by doing that.

                  Women respond to feelings.

                  You need to start a program of attaching good feelings to the concept of an open marriage.

                  This will take time.

                  You subcommunicate this ... You do not "bring it up."

                  Use that time to be an awesome dad to your new kid.

                  And work on your long game.

                  There are more ways to enhance this effort, but let's just start with this. If you'd like some other ideas, please say so.
                  ____________________________________________

                  PS - Keep in mind that old saying. "Be careful what you wish for- you may get it!"

                  Make sure before you start any program of influence that you are crystal clear in your mind what your goals for an open marriage are.

                  There are open relationships and open relationships.
                  • Do you want to swing
                  • do you want 3somes
                  • are you a cuckold fetishist, i.e., do you want to watch her
                  • do you want to do sexual spirituality/tantric personal development that involves sharing with multiple partners


                  List this shit out and have your goals in place before you even begin to work on her
                  If I'm being honest with myself I really just want to have sex with other girls. I would be down for a threesome although I'm not sure if she would ever be. I might consider swinging, although I pretty much just want to have my cake and eat it too. I would def be interested in the sexual spirituality, although I'm not sure what all that entails. I would def be open to hearing more ways on how to subcommunicate to her.

                  Our son was born a couple weeks ago just shy of 9 pounds, and he even came a few days before the due date. So far things are going really well (knock on wood). She has been a little more emotional but def doesn't have post-partum. He has been sleeping in clusters of 3 hours at night so we've been able to get some decent sleep in. I'm very curious to see how having a kid will impact my freedom. I know it will be a little less, but I'm hoping I will be able to do pretty much whatever I want because we have very willing grandparents to take him at pretty much any time. I'm going to a rave next month so that's a good sign I'm still relatively "free". Once again I appreciate all the advice in this thread. I have been focusing on family right now, and like I said it has been going well.

                  Comment

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