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  • #16
    Originally posted by Circulator View Post
    Do you seriously not know what he means by a fruitful conversation?

    I've noticed a pattern where you ask for advice and then argue about it. Almost like you're playing dumb.
    I ask for advice and then ask for clarity yeah, never argue.

    Like if someone says "you gotta lead" and I say "ok, but I tried that with this one girl and she shut down"

    That's not arguing, that's presenting a fact that needs reconciliation!

    Should I be more direct? Should I ask "ok, but what about this one time, what's that about?"

    Because I'm noticing a pattern where I'm misunderstood and I need to fix that ASAP so pl;ease, help me.

    as for fruitful conversation, I'm not sure exactly what he means.

    I can have conversations where I make people smile and laugh and like talking to me, but I feel empty inside because it's one sided.

    I'm assuming he means a conversation where we BOTH get something out of it. If that is the case, the answer is a loud NO because I can only give people what they want and never get what I want.

    With the milf I recently f*cked up with, I had great conversations with her but it was all one sided.

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    • #17
      Yeah I think you need to just figure this shit out on your own. You're making it more difficult for yourself by externally searching for answers to everything.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Circulator View Post
        Yeah I think you need to just figure this shit out on your own. You're making it more difficult for yourself by externally searching for answers to everything.
        I'm sorry you feel that way, because I've learned a lot already and you guys have really helped me. Sorry if I haven't given you what you wanted in return. :/

        Comment


        • #19
          Made 2 approaches today. They went ok, nothing major. I feel like I'm losing every interaction I'm in tho.

          The first one was a tall blonde who I noticed. I think she noticed me too because she started walking aimlessly, almost confused.

          Anyhow, I said "Excuse me. Hi, how are you?"

          she was confused and said "good thanks"

          I'm like "cool, what's up?" she's like "nothing, just shopping."

          I'm like "cool, me too. What do you do?"

          She goes "oh I work at the hospital."

          I'm like "Oh really? as a nurse or a doctor?" she goes "nurse"

          I'm like "ah, cool. he wanna get coffee later?"

          she goes "I'm seeing someone" and makes an elaborate gesture with her hands, almost like she was going to show me a ring but she had no ring lol

          so I say "Ok, no worries,take care" and walk off.

          From there I go to the deli counter and there's this older guy staring at me. So I go "hey how's it going?" he says "good. Warm."

          I'm like "yeah it is warm in here. cold outside tho"

          he goes "yes, it's making up for last year, because last year the weather was nice but this year it's getting cold to make up for it"

          I'm like "yeah it's too bad"

          He goes "last year was pretty warm, not like south african warm but it was warm"

          I'm like "yeah. are you from south africa?"

          He's like "no, lebanon"

          I go "oh ok, well it's warm there too."

          He's like "no, it's cold there right now. snow and everything. not as cold as here, but it's cold yeah."

          I'm like "really? huh."

          then he gets his stuff and says "well, have a good day" I'm like "you too."

          After I get my stuff I go to another aisle and there is this cute, skinny, asian milf. my god. this is why I'm learning pick up my friends!

          So she's looking at the hot dogs (of course lol) and I am too. I can't find mine but when I do I put them in my basket.

          I notice she's comparing two kinds of hot dogs so I go out on a limb. I'm like "which one is better?" that's literally all I say. Then she's like

          "well I like these ones better *left hand*. these other *right hand* ones blah blah"

          I'm like "oh yeah? do those ones *left hand* have cheese or something?" she's like "no, these other ones *right hand* do, but these ones *left hand* are on sale so..."

          I'm like "yeah, well that makes sense. But hey what are you doing later?"

          She's like "working"

          I'm like "ok, what about tomorrow?" she's like "at such and such a mall"

          I'm like "cool,m wanna get a coffee later?"

          She's like "no."

          lol, so I'm like "alright, see you." and leave.

          It should be noted she was very comfortable walking slowly with me so I dunno what happened there. not enough rapport maybe?

          Anyhow, that's it for now.

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          • #20
            Hi Sarge! So much improvement.

            Originally posted by SargeMaximus View Post
            After I get my stuff I go to another aisle and there is this cute, skinny, asian milf. my god. this is why I'm learning pick up my friends!

            So she's looking at the hot dogs (of course lol) and I am too. I can't find mine but when I do I put them in my basket.

            I notice she's comparing two kinds of hot dogs so I go out on a limb. I'm like "which one is better?" that's literally all I say. Then she's like

            "well I like these ones better *left hand*. these other *right hand* ones blah blah"*********************

            I'm like "oh yeah? do those ones *left hand* have cheese or something?" she's like "no, these other ones *right hand* do, but these ones *left hand* are on sale so..."

            I'm like "yeah, well that makes sense. But hey what are you doing later?"

            She's like "working"

            I'm like "ok, what about tomorrow?" she's like "at such and such a mall"

            I'm like "cool,m wanna get a coffee later?"

            She's like "no."

            lol, so I'm like "alright, see you." and leave.

            It should be noted she was very comfortable walking slowly with me so I dunno what happened there. not enough rapport maybe?

            Anyhow, that's it for now.
            O.k. as I see it, all was well until after the bold star part.

            If you don't mind, I am going to pull this apart a bit and show you how I would have moved the interaction further a long Before throwing out any sort of contact ideas. You almost want to make the first interaction with women, in times like this one above, a hint of who You are and what it Might be like to date you.

            So in the bold, you are both looking together at the same thing, a generally agreed upon idea. So when you open indirectly with "which one is better?" it is assumed that you are talking about the same idea in both of your minds, if that makes sense.

            So now that you are both on a similar page of thought, it is so much easier for you two to relate. You are vibing with eachother, for a second which is why she rambles quickly her train of thought, you are now speaking directly to her in a sense.

            In times like this, where she is on the same page, you want to slowllly flip the page.

            Not slam the book, and pull out a whole new story, if that makes sense. Which is kind of what you do right here:
            I'm like "yeah, well that makes sense. But hey what are you doing later?"
            It is very tough to pull that off, very tough.

            A better transition, IME, or rather what I would do, is speak about the hotdogs while introducing new concepts to the now collective vision.

            ME: "Well, they might be on sale for a reason right? You could be risking it right??" (here, risking it, is more of a smidgen higher energy as telling a joke, and then when she looks at you because you cause a new higher energy area near her, make EC and try and read her a little, a soft gaze.)

            Now you have a better understanding of her frame of mind after a soft gaze for a second or two, an unassuming, a "non-threatening" conversation, (from a girls viewpoint, all men are threatening in that they only want them for sex, type mindset, dont be That guy) and an ability to use her answer to move further away from hot dog talk to real human connection.

            But right here, you kind of be That guy:
            I'm like "yeah, well that makes sense. But hey what are you doing later?"

            She's like "working"
            One word answer, she was let down. But it's oK! She was comfortable and walking slowly with you because she wass interested until you abruptly end the "possibilities" of what could happen by jumping straight for the jugular. Try and dance around the meet up, and perhaps try and bring up non logical ideas to the conversation somewhat early on so it is a playful discussion prior to any sort of exchange. Or generally, try and get a nice back and forth about something they appreciate and you will have better results
            In Ictu Oculi

            Comment


            • #21
              Hey cactus, thanks for the props and the insight!

              I'll try to do more convos like you suggest, but it's interesting you bring up her disappointment because I suspect I do that a LOT to girls. I also wonder how I can "be my own man" if I have to constantly walk on eggshells in that manner. :/

              For now, I think I should be focusing on having what Circulator termed "fruitful conversations".

              Relating and stuff.

              If I learned one thing from this it's that girls are interested in me but I'm the one who turns them off. It's like being in a minefield. And it's honestly quite limiting and frustrating. I feel repressed.

              Asian girl was studying me hard with her eyes and I could tell she was weighing me out which is good I guess.

              Anyhow, thanks again.

              Comment


              • #22
                No problem, I feel great results coming within the year for sure!

                Originally posted by SargeMaximus View Post
                but it's interesting you bring up her disappointment because I suspect I do that a LOT to girls. I also wonder how I can "be my own man" if I have to constantly walk on eggshells in that manner. :/.
                Don't worry about walking on eggshells, it's not necessarily submitting to her as much as it is showing her you can read and understand her signals. Once you have a back and forth then you can begin to reign the niceties, and she just might do the same
                In Ictu Oculi

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by cactus eyes View Post
                  No problem, I feel great results coming within the year for sure!

                  Don't worry about walking on eggshells, it's not necessarily submitting to her as much as it is showing her you can read and understand her signals. Once you have a back and forth then you can begin to reign the niceties, and she just might do the same
                  Thanks man. I'm making losing my V my #1 goal this year (just like last year lol).

                  And ok, I'll come at it from the conversation angle. Thanks.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Make it a focus for you to give rather than ask so much from other people.

                    In your first conversion notice how you are always asking her for something without offering anything of value:

                    "Whats up?" "How are you?" "What are you doing later?"

                    These questions are all on her to spend a lot of time and energy thinking about answering and for what? What does she get for answering. Make your conversation instead:

                    "Just came from the food court and saw the coolest thing..." "My friend just broke up with his girlfriend because of her toes, you think that is ok?" "I had a fortune cookie the other day that I would find trouble in unseen places, but all I see is nice people that love me. Who are you?"
                    -Supernova

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Supernova View Post
                      Make it a focus for you to give rather than ask so much from other people.

                      In your first conversion notice how you are always asking her for something without offering anything of value:

                      "Whats up?" "How are you?" "What are you doing later?"
                      Well I've noticed people like talking to me when I ask them about themselves. "How To Win Friends and Influence People" style. That's what I was trying to do there. Develop a dialog where she can talk about herself and I can comment on things she says. When I can accomplish that dynamic, it's usually really great.

                      But you're saying that asking people questions (even if it's ones that get them to talk about themselves) is still leeching value?

                      Originally posted by Supernova View Post
                      These questions are all on her to spend a lot of time and energy thinking about answering and for what? What does she get for answering. Make your conversation instead:

                      "Just came from the food court and saw the coolest thing..." "My friend just broke up with his girlfriend because of her toes, you think that is ok?" "I had a fortune cookie the other day that I would find trouble in unseen places, but all I see is nice people that love me. Who are you?"
                      Ok so I don't get that at all lol. Clearly it's something I need to learn.

                      I actually did try something like this once, I told a woman she looked like a gypsy because of her hair lol. It didn't go over well.

                      I take it there's a right way and wrong way to do this.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by SargeMaximus View Post
                        Well I've noticed people like talking to me when I ask them about themselves. "How To Win Friends and Influence People" style. That's what I was trying to do there. Develop a dialog where she can talk about herself and I can comment on things she says. When I can accomplish that dynamic, it's usually really great.

                        But you're saying that asking people questions (even if it's ones that get them to talk about themselves) is still leeching value?



                        Ok so I don't get that at all lol. Clearly it's something I need to learn.

                        I actually did try something like this once, I told a woman she looked like a gypsy because of her hair lol. It didn't go over well.

                        I take it there's a right way and wrong way to do this.

                        Well imo asking questions like that are great if you want to have a logical discussion but we want women to FEEL emotionally charged responses. It's more about relating and creating a bubble of space for the both of you. If all you ask is "how are you" or "what's up?" this is generating auto pilot response on the girls part and forcing her to THINK Logically. Those topic bits Supernova said evokes an emotional reaction from the girl. Yes she still thinks but not from an auto pilot standpoint if that makes sense?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Tagz View Post
                          Well imo asking questions like that are great if you want to have a logical discussion but we want women to FEEL emotionally charged responses. It's more about relating and creating a bubble of space for the both of you. If all you ask is "how are you" or "what's up?" this is generating auto pilot response on the girls part and forcing her to THINK Logically. Those topic bits Supernova said evokes an emotional reaction from the girl. Yes she still thinks but not from an auto pilot standpoint if that makes sense?
                          Yes that makes sense, and I'm going to try doing that from now on.

                          And I know I'm risking pissing people off, but...

                          the girl I ended up getting my first makeout with I only did the logical stuff so I'm just wondering why it worked at all if it "doesn't work". Know what I'm saying?

                          Just trying to reconcile shit on this crazy journey lol.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Well I've noticed people like talking to me when I ask them about themselves. "How To Win Friends and Influence People" style. That's what I was trying to do there. Develop a dialog where she can talk about herself and I can comment on things she says. When I can accomplish that dynamic, it's usually really great.

                            But you're saying that asking people questions (even if it's ones that get them to talk about themselves) is still leeching value?

                            So you have to give in a way that is valuable for other people. I can hand out flowers on the street to girls and while I may think this is valuable, these flowers are worthless to the girls or even less if they come with the requirement of them reciprocating as well. The same goes with your conversation.

                            I know the style you are referring to with How to Win Friends and Influence and I have to tell you that probably 80% of the time my dates are spent with me asking questions and them answering. This however is when it is valuable for them to talk about themselves. You have to put yourself in their shoes, "whats up" is of so low of value that they can shit on it. If you are on a date with a women and she is fairly into you and you ask about her childhood, this is immensely valuable and she will love telling you because she gets so much value from this.

                            Questions are beautiful and most guys don't use them on dates, but to think you are going to keep a conversation going by asking a woman whats up and how are you is far-fetched. For the same reasons, "You're beautiful." Doesn't work either. It is not valuable to her because you are communicating that you just want to have sex with her. Communicate first that you are someone worth sharing with, then you have the opportunity to ask questions that are important to her for her to answer.
                            -Supernova

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                            • #29
                              I don't understand most of that so I'll do more approaches before I ask any more questions.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by SargeMaximus View Post
                                I don't understand most of that so I'll do more approaches before I ask any more questions.
                                1. Aim to give. 2. Look to understand how she's sees things as valuable.

                                Keep approaching you will see.
                                -Supernova

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