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  • Great with theory, putting into practice is a whole different story

    Theory. I'm great at theory. I have been reading on the theory of our interactions with women for over a year now. evo-psych, game theories, what we need to do. I've internalized a great deal. However...

    When it comes to putting it in practice, I'm not what you would call proficient. Once I'm talking to a lady, I'm great with negs. I can do the mind-fucking if there is reciprocal interest. It's when the approach is cold or there is a need to build interest that I get stuck. In fact, let me back up, it's because of this lack of confidence in being able to perpetuate a conversation or even get past an introduction that I get AA. I know I need to maintain frame, I know I need to neg, and that we have to do 80 percent of the talking, but keep them talking about themselves. I also know not to ask the same old boring questions.

    I see a lot of talk about what we need to do, and how to do certain things. My thing is, I need shit spelled out for me, a framework, if you will. Start to finish. And I don't mean I need someone telling me what to do every step, but I need steps that say, when you introduce yourself, steer the conversation by asking questions like these... then you'll want to switch to this sort of conversation because that will build tension and help escalate...I guess, sometimes I'm just at a loss for what to say, and it doesn't help that I'm not totally fluent in the language of the country I live it. I hold my own, but not fluent. I feel like if I can get past this obstacle (keeping the conversation moving, not the part about the language), I will be much better with my game.

    Any and all advice is appreciated and welcome. Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    Also, is it worth it to go out and buy a book like Roosh's day bang? Or are there enough resources on the various forums and websites that would make buying a book unnecessary?

    Comment


    • #3
      Don't waste your money on products until you can talk to a new woman casually for at least 5 minutes. No game, just a friendly conversation.

      Comment


      • #4
        Its not what you say, but how you say it.

        http://gunwitch.fastseduction.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          There's no such thing as "great with theory". The fact that someone read a whole bunch of books / blogs doesn't make him into anything.

          Being "great with theory" is like being great with Oscar-acceptance speeches. If you didn't win an actual Oscar, what does you speech matter? Likewise if you did win it. It's simply not what it's about.

          Not a single man since the beginning of our kind has ever been satisfied with his masculine position because he understood something "in theory".

          My advice: just face up to the fact that you are not happy with your results, and stop trying to cover it up with "but I'm good... in theory!". Don't be the guy saying "yeah, I never won an Oscar, I wasn't even nominated... but I do have an amazing acceptance speech!".

          Comment


          • #6
            cuffmonster, that was solid gold. reading and re-reading.

            tarzan, thanks for the great idea. next time someone asks me what i do, i'll tell her, "i write oscar acceptance speeches for a living."

            any other advice is welcome and encouraged.

            Comment


            • #7
              Remedy is spot on with "tak to a woman casually for more than 5 minutes" and friendly conversation.

              I would be wary of internalizing things like "need to neg" or even really "i need a framework, shit spelled out."

              A neg can be effective. Why is it effective? It takes one recieving it off guard, in the Context of an interaction that is overall positive, and heightens tension. The woman questions whether you like her or not, whether its "on" or not.

              If I read a post saying i NEED to neg or requesting a framework, this makes me imagine that the approach youre doing may be very formulaic. And if it is based around negs as a centerpiece, that the negs may not be acting according to their intended purpose... Creating tension.. And may be acting more like the small boy taking his crush's lunchbox... Relieving HIS tension. Then, it will not create attraction, but be predictable, and probably just give the idea that the "negger" is an asshole.

              I would suggest questioning "why" a technique works the way it works before laying it on thick

              Comment


              • #8
                retarz, good comments, thank you.

                i think i slightly misrepresented what i'm experiencing, so i'll add just a bit. i don't mean that i only neg and that initially we do more talking, just to keep them talking, and the other few tactics i listed. i was using those as some examples of certain people's approaches, as tactics that are often touted as things that work. i know there's MUCH more that goes into it, i have more respect for the game, and those that play it, than that.

                also, my frustration doesn't come from not being able to pick up in social settings, as i can hold my own in some regard. not great, but i manage. it's the straight cold approach, sometimes in bars, but mostly street game. that's where i see most of the girls that i wuss out on. turning to a hottie at the bus stop, or waiting for the crosswalk to turn green, to a lesser extent while walking my dog (he's so fucking cute that i get opened frequently) but i just don't know how to turn a comment to a girl into a full fledged conversation. it's those everyday benign situations where i get stuck. putting all the things we learn into play with a total stranger in a non-social environment. hence the follow up question about whether or not it's wise to buy a book like roosh's. this is all not to say i'm a fucking stallion when it's not a totally cold approach, but i really want to hone street skills. that's where i kick myself everyday for not doing something.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is doing 80% of the talking actually part of the theory? Because I've found that keeping my mouth shut yields really good results, lets me take a breather and reflect on my responses, and I've been progressing much further that way.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The easiest way to go from "I know what I should be doing" and go to "How the hell did I do that" is to stop thinking. Stop going out and saying "Today/night I am going to use the XYZ opener and then I will pace for 25.349cm and turn my body 45degrees to the left in order to maximize total sexual awesomeness." Seriously, stop all that.

                    IAM had a saying that I think needs to be the motto for this whole site. GATA: Get After That Ass. That's all this boils down to. Your ancestors didn't have the MM or negging or Cozy or Teevs. They had their dick in their hand thinking "If I don't fuck something, I will die." And they got after that ass.

                    Your mind is your enemy. Step out of it and live in the moment and you will realize that it all makes sense. Will you succeed the first girl you talk to? Probably not. Will you lay one of the first 100 girls you talk to? Probably not. Be okay with that. Accept that you are going to fail and when you do, laugh it off. This girl just denied herself the pleasure of being pleasured by a fucking awesome dude. Live in the moment and let yourself learn from experience, not from reading books and blog posts.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This is typical when just getting into the game.

                      I had like a year and a half worth of theory before actually going in field to take action. So that was a year and a half lost by studying only.

                      I guess we all go through that phase as newbies.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tov View Post
                        The easiest way to go from "I know what I should be doing" and go to "How the hell did I do that" is to stop thinking. Stop going out and saying "Today/night I am going to use the XYZ opener and then I will pace for 25.349cm and turn my body 45degrees to the left in order to maximize total sexual awesomeness." Seriously, stop all that.

                        IAM had a saying that I think needs to be the motto for this whole site. GATA: Get After That Ass. That's all this boils down to. Your ancestors didn't have the MM or negging or Cozy or Teevs. They had their dick in their hand thinking "If I don't fuck something, I will die." And they got after that ass.

                        Your mind is your enemy. Step out of it and live in the moment and you will realize that it all makes sense. Will you succeed the first girl you talk to? Probably not. Will you lay one of the first 100 girls you talk to? Probably not. Be okay with that. Accept that you are going to fail and when you do, laugh it off. This girl just denied herself the pleasure of being pleasured by a fucking awesome dude. Live in the moment and let yourself learn from experience, not from reading books and blog posts.
                        This is what I've been doing recently. I've made more progress than not. Now I think there is a major sticking point that I haven't identified yet. It'd be great if someone with some insight on how to figure out your sticking point and bust through it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here man, something you've got to realize, especially if you are already having SOME good interactions....

                          A social interaction is not something that is predictable. Meaning you can't PLAN out what is going to happen in a certain situation. You can't predict what a girl is going to say back.

                          The key things are...

                          -Always be in the conversation, not in your own head.
                          -Don't think about what you are going to say... just roll with it.
                          -Take the filter off of your brain that connects to your mouth and talk about anything. Don't think about it. Just blurt it out.
                          -Calibrate after you say something... Not before.
                          -Not everything you say has to be "perfect." It's actually better if its not. The way to get a girl hooked is to make her FEEL something. No matter what kind of emotions she is feeling, you can always fix the situation.
                          -Approach everyone that you can. You never know who you are going to have chemistry with.
                          -Always be closing. The last thing you want to do is bore the girl by staying at the same "level" you are already at. Escalate.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by twan View Post
                            Theory. I'm great at theory. I have been reading on the theory of our interactions with women for over a year now. evo-psych, game theories, what we need to do. I've internalized a great deal. However...

                            When it comes to putting it in practice, I'm not what you would call proficient. Once I'm talking to a lady, I'm great with negs. I can do the mind-fucking if there is reciprocal interest. It's when the approach is cold or there is a need to build interest that I get stuck. In fact, let me back up, it's because of this lack of confidence in being able to perpetuate a conversation or even get past an introduction that I get AA. I know I need to maintain frame, I know I need to neg, and that we have to do 80 percent of the talking, but keep them talking about themselves. I also know not to ask the same old boring questions.

                            I see a lot of talk about what we need to do, and how to do certain things. My thing is, I need shit spelled out for me, a framework, if you will. Start to finish. And I don't mean I need someone telling me what to do every step, but I need steps that say, when you introduce yourself, steer the conversation by asking questions like these... then you'll want to switch to this sort of conversation because that will build tension and help escalate...I guess, sometimes I'm just at a loss for what to say, and it doesn't help that I'm not totally fluent in the language of the country I live it. I hold my own, but not fluent. I feel like if I can get past this obstacle (keeping the conversation moving, not the part about the language), I will be much better with my game.

                            Any and all advice is appreciated and welcome. Thanks in advance.
                            You have probably memorized, not internalized. Internalization comes with experience.
                            It's good that you had this realization. Just start going out and taking action.

                            Also start meditating to get more present and 'delete' the unnecessary info.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              thanks to the guys that have offered up suggestions. something happened recently, and i can't totally put a finger on it. i started opening everyone. there are still no penis in vagina results from those that i've recently opened, but it's only been the last few days. i've found that the feelings that prompted me to write this original post, have really gone away. not totally, but i've felt differently the last few days, and it started with a girl that i picked up in the gym. from there, it just snowballed.

                              i also figured out why i was feeling what i felt when i wrote this post. the cause of my aa was that i was seeing girls on the street on the way to and from work, i'd have just a few seconds, and before i could even think, they were gone, and i'd be pissed at myself for not saying anything, and it would just spiral until i was pissed. then i read the dao of badass, majikalmethods response, and another post on here that got into the nuts and bolts of pain, pain of absence and presence. and then i realized that when i wasn't totally pressuring myself, it all came natural, and while i haven't yet internalized everything, there are somethings there that have become natural. anyway, thanks for the good responses and suggestions.

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